Do you think producers who use loops are lazy?

[acetheface954]

acetheface954


Not that I'm on the side judging people,
but I have to say you made one error.

Sampling individual notes is in no way the same as using loops.
They are judged by other more pretentious musicians the same way,
but in practice they are apples and oranges.

The people sampling individual notes are doing almost the exact same thing that a guy writing sheet music is doing,
only that Midi is a more strait forward, simplified system.

I used to write in sheet music decades ago before I discovered Midi so I know this to be the case.

In fact, they are so similar that you can directly translate Midi in sheet music and vice versa.


So, they may be judged the same, but they are two different things.

Someone using nothing but loops is not writing any music. They don't need to know music theory or any of that to mix loops together. (remember I'm not judging just stating the facts)
while someone using individual note samples is writing the song note by note exactly the same way someone writing sheet music would only with Midi.

This is a huge difference.

No matter what side of the debate you're on,
this is undeniable.

Unfortunately it still wouldn't make me any better than the person who loops all the time seeing as how the finished work will always speak for itself. But I personally feel a person who can put notes together is well more capable of writing for sure. Also I know for sure that loops and samples are way different lol. What I meant was producers such as myself don't really record anything we use in our music. Therefore, people would probably say we cheated to. Then again...

 

[tempestmichael]

yea, man I get that all the time.
People judging you just because you use samples even though it's basically the same thing as sheet music..

this is why I don't judge people who use loops,
but rather encourage them to make some tracks with individual Midi notes in order to make their sound more original.

mix it up.

Do a little of both.

I actually remix my own tracks all the time using the same methods as people who cut up loops so they can go hand in hand.

---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ----------

that's the other thing,
if you are using loops alone..
make sure you cut them up and rearrange them so it doesn't sound exactly the same as the last guy who used that loop.

It's just a smart plan.

 

[acetheface954]

yea, man I get that all the time.
People judging you just because you use samples even though it's basically the same thing as sheet music..

this is why I don't judge people who use loops,
but rather encourage them to make some tracks with individual Midi notes in order to make their sound more original.

mix it up.

Do a little of both.

I actually remix my own tracks all the time using the same methods as people who cut up loops so they can go hand in hand.

---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ----------

that's the other thing,
if you are using loops alone..
make sure you cut them up and rearrange them so it doesn't sound exactly the same as the last guy who used that loop.

It's just a smart plan.

Lol thats what happens when the ignorant become judges. You'll appreciate these two videos to.

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...-electronic-musicians-talentless-what-420029/

 

[tempestmichael]

yea, I'll check them out when I'm back at home and have speakers

 

[themurphmusic]

For tutorial purposes it's fine but when making songs the only type of loops I think that are acceptable are hat and percussion loops. I think it's really lazy to use synth loops unless you edit them in a cool way.

 

[Oliver SoundShoots]

I hate seeing tutorials where producers say stuff like "now we'll load this drum loop we got from primeloops". Do you think that producers should be encouraging others to use loops, rather than create and sample sounds by themselves? Does it matter either way if the end result is decent?

Discuss!

I think that using loops is a great way of getting started with production and it helps hone your arrangement, mixing and mastering skills, but if you have the end goal of becoming a successful producer then making everything from scratch is your only real option, as that is what gives you your own identity and sets you apart from the crowd. It's almost impossible to have a well defined creative identity if you just use loops.

Great topic!

 

[tempestmichael]

acetheface954

yea those videos were definitely a good example of what happens when the ignorant become judges.

couldn't watch the whole videos though because star trek came on

 

[Rusak]

I used to love loops. Produced solely with them (a decade ago). The loops were no where near as good as what's available today and I still managed to have a really good time. Now I love doing remixes in the same way, the loops/samples are even already chosen for me
But, the only loops I use these days in my original tracks are live percussion, as it is almost impossible to program/MIDI the feeling. I often twist them and chose different starting places to the original though. Tweak and tweak till they ramp up my programmed beats
Big ups to anyone who has a great time making loop based music, it's cool fun, albeit less challenging.

PS: loops are too often already mastered these days, just squish and ruin in my masters.

 

[WhackFlavaJason]

No i don't..i think a loop can give a track that extra touch.

 

[odinnshred]

No i don't..i think a loop can give a track that extra touch.

The problem I stated throughout the thread is that people who make tutorials using loops are encouraging a cop out approach. If you can use a loop, why can't you make a loop (or the elements it brings to the track/mix) yourself?

 

[highkoo]

The problem I stated throughout the thread is that people who make tutorials using loops are encouraging a cop out approach.

I agree, but dont confuse a tutorial on fx processing, where they are maybe just using a loop because it is quick and easy. The tutoring in that case is not about the arrangement. Its just about how the sound, any sound, is affected.
But yeah, there are a ton of tutorial videos that start "Yo, this is how you make a beat..., Grab a loop from Loopmasters.." And that is pretty weak.

If you can use a loop, why can't you make a loop yourself?

Making loops actually requires talent. Arranging loops is mostly just luck...

Thats how this is so backwards;
People give respect to talentless idiots because they arranged the loops that some talented, low paid, nameless, musician made.
Even worse; Loops are treated like they are nothing, even by the people that rely on them, while they couldnt make a tight loop in a month...
Talented people who want to make a living 'in music' are forced to create outrageously simple loops for pennies, so morons who dont know where a snare goes can feel like "producers".

Its sick.
I guess it keeps the whole music economy thing goin though....

 

[milesg2g]

I always wondered if other producers actually cared about such things. I don't think it's a problem tbh. If I make a dope drum loop and I want to save it and use it in other songs I should be able to without called lazy. lol

 

[odinnshred]

I always wondered if other producers actually cared about such things. I don't think it's a problem tbh. If I make a dope drum loop and I want to save it and use it in other songs I should be able to without called lazy. lol

In recent months I've been making 'drum loops', but only so I can use 1,2,4 or 8 bar audio files in a repeating manner (in some genres like trip hop, e.g; where a slightly slower than the tempo drum loop gives an awesome effect that fits the genre). Then I apply compression to the overall audio which accentuates the interactions between the sounds.

If you are making the loops, then I respect that. It's buying a loop pack and pretending you can make music that I can't respect.

 

[milesg2g]

Some people lack the skills to produce such drum loops themselves, but posses the melodic skillset. That's why it's good for loops to exist and be used or repeated.

 

[highkoo]

Some people lack the skills to produce such drum loops themselves, but posses the melodic skillset.

God I know.
So annoying....

 

[acetheface954]

I always wondered if other producers actually cared about such things. I don't think it's a problem tbh. If I make a dope drum loop and I want to save it and use it in other songs I should be able to without called lazy. lol

yup. why would I hunt around for a different cymbal crash or a sub bass every time when I could just reuse the ones I know will work? you think live musicians use different instruments every single time? hell no. so why should producing be any different?

 

[milesg2g]

yup. why would I hunt around for a different cymbal crash or a sub bass every time when I could just reuse the ones I know will work? you think live musicians use different instruments every single time? hell no. so why should producing be any different?

I couldn't agree more.

 

[highkoo]

yup. why would I hunt around for a different cymbal crash or a sub bass every time when I could just reuse the ones I know will work?

Creativity?
Or, at the very least to keep things from getting boring?
You honestly dont see a difference between triggering the same crash cymbal sample every bar, and a real drummer hitting a crash cymbal every bar?

you think live musicians use different instruments every single time? hell no. so why should producing be any different?

Well, your premise is wrong.
A live musician does not play a perfect copy of a sound, even if that is what they are trying to do. And, your ears can tell.
'Round Robin' is a thing for a reason....

 

[milesg2g]

What he means, is most of the time producers are looking for a certain common sound that doesn't require any type of creativity. You just need that noise or that loop. Drums are important and definitely the heart of most beats, but it's a drum at the end of the day.

 

[highkoo]

What he means, is most of the time producers are looking for a certain common sound that doesn't require any type of creativity. You just need that noise or that loop.

Right.
And Im saying that people who create music that way are tools.
Just trying to copy the sounds from the latest hit should not be the entire job description.

Anyway, lets say you do create music that way, for a living or whatever. Same point;

Lets say you find 'that perfect' crash sample, and it drops every four/eight bars. Its only that 'perfect crash' the first time its in the track. After that, a discerning ear knows its just the same sample, even subconsciously, and your beat is toybox shit.

But, if the legitimacy of using full loops is actually in question, I may be pissing up a rope trying to convince anyone of the real usefulness of Round Robin for individual samples...