A Producers-Union?

flipn50 said:
Why is that illegal? maybe we shouldn't exaggerate, but just tell the truth of how things is to the artists.

We are not going to call out names of 99 cent producers.
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:hello:



Please call out my name. I'll be the spokesperson for 99 cent beats.



You can put my face on websites and picket signs, with a big X thru it...



You can even go on a J.POOP'S 99 CENT BEATS SUCK campaign.




Please??? :)
 
REAL8 said:
this has always been a fantasy for many producers/artists.
in an ideal world, it would be great WHP...but fact is not everyone will play by the rules.

the fact is places like soundclick have given artists the go to place for good quality beats for very low prices or even free!

they have these regulations within the supermarket and airlines businesses for example and allows everyone to have a healthy profit and at times companies have agreed to increase a fixed increase on good to exploit its customers.

the fact is this is the net, and nothing is regulated. there are so many avenues to sell beats and get the quick buck. the only way to stop it would be for the major sites to have a minimum price set, but then again there will be that one crafty producer who will undercut everyone and get the quick bucks.
shheit he can simply agrree to the union under his real production name, and then create a 2nd alias and start selling beats and get the quick buck.

the difference between producers and companies are start up costs. the fact is there are producers who cant compete with bedroom producers, who have a £200 laptop with a free cracked fl studio and these beat makers can sell cheap or for free!!! as they have no expenses to cover! so everything is a profit from the get go (minus the laptop cost).... however we have producers who have thousand $$$ of equipment and they need to recoup their costs...so they cant compete. think of it like the west trying to compete with 3rd world countries.... they cant compete in manufactruring costs!! impossible!

if an artist can get a dope ass beat for free...... why pay for 1?
thats the attitude of artists..... as for producers union.... well look at the United Nations..... they are set up to monitor everyone to play fair..... fact is not everyone is going to play fair and theres nothing this 'union' can do about it.

If i ruled the world........
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Personally I've never been to soundclick...just heard about it. The artist I know pay my price...Maybe they don't know about SC or Maybe it's the quality or service I offer.

My point...use the internet but don't forget to build face to face relationships.
 
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Cash_Daily said:
Personally I've never been to soundclick...just heard about. The artist I know pay my price...Maybe they don't know about SC or Maybe it's the quality or service I offer.

My point...use the internet but don't forget to build face to face relationships.
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I just hope the 99 cent beats wouldn't destroy the local market also.
 
flipn50 said:
I just hope the 99 cent beats wouldn't destroy the local market also.
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I don't worry about things I can't control. J. Troup is a smart dude...Do you guys really think J is only selling 99 cent beats. I bet he sells studio time, mixing, etc... Only ones worried about this are BEATMAKERS- Guys who never record artist just program beats.

If you only offer one service then you will be done. GOOD!

I just recorded a guy that does cartoon voiceovers. Which had nothing to do with beats or RAP. I made a quick $50 for 15mins of work. He could've went down the street and paid $20 but he knows my history and work ethic.
 
flipn50 i liked your long outline. The fact is 99 cent beats might look appealing, but as you said what good are they when thousands of leases of the same song are out there. I don't think that serious aritists would object to decent prices which help quality and help ensure that if their track makes it big they don't have to worry about thousands of other artists having the same beat. Whats 25 or 50 bucks for a good lease if they can make something of it.

and this kind of 'union' wouldn't be illegal because there's nothing forcing people to comply, but if the majority of producers do adhear to it then everyone benefits.

Also I think skill is still important in this industry. Just because someone can have an old lap top and some ripped software and sell beats for 99 cents doesn't mean that their products can compete with those producers who are doing this seriously.
 
Hey it's Tone C - 2nd post...Welcome to FP.com...We talk about Fruity Loops, 99 cent beats and we love to gossip.

Check out gearslutz.com if you want a serious conversation.
 
Tony_C said:
flipn50 i liked your long outline. The fact is 99 cent beats might look appealing, but as you said what good are they when thousands of leases of the same song are out there. I don't think that serious aritists would object to decent prices which help quality and help ensure that if their track makes it big they don't have to worry about thousands of other artists having the same beat. Whats 25 or 50 bucks for a good lease if they can make something of it.

and this kind of 'union' wouldn't be illegal because there's nothing forcing people to comply, but if the majority of producers do adhear to it then everyone benefits.

Also I think skill is still important in this industry. Just because someone can have an old lap top and some ripped software and sell beats for 99 cents doesn't mean that their products can compete with those producers who are doing this seriously.
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Thank you for reading my post. I'm glad my time didn't go to waste.

The only thing the "union" can do is let online artists know the facts regarding 99 cent beats and why producers are selling them for that price.
 
IM All for it.... I think that to accomplish the goal though we would need to have some sort of forum for the more established producers to talk.... If you jonnyjuliano vybes etc the major sellers on soundclick did this the quality of product left from the "scabbers" would dwindle. it may cause a hit intiailly to profits but eventually i think the market would turn back..... Alot of the producers on sc and other sites selling for low prices dont have quality to justify higher prices..... Quality and price are correlated ...... people will eventually get tired of rapping over trash.....
 
99 cent beats appeal to those serious artists who don't have the money to purchase exclusives for hundreds of dollars.

They can get INDUSTRY QUALITY production for their project, and not have to break the bank.

There are plenty of SERIOUS, TALENTED artists out there who are in all kinds of situations...in school, under employed, unemployed, have kids to feed or aging relatives to take care of...who otherwise might not have a shot at making money to help bring them out of that situation.


Those are the customers I target with my 99 cent beats. But what you're telling them is that since they don't have a certain level of financial success ALREADY, then they don't deserve to make good music.


If people with cheap, crappy beats can COMPETE with you to the point that it can affect your business significantly, THEN YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL PRODUCER!!!

You peoe sound like the major labels...refusing to diversify to further fortify your financial position. Your product doesn't have the same worth that it used to, because your product is readily available to anyone that wants it, and your solution is to try to FORCE people to buy your readily available product at a higher price.


Stop living in the 80's. If you're depending on BEATS to live, then you DESERVE TO DIE.



You might as well be trying to sell AIR. Yeah...something that everybody already has.


Don't get mad when nobody wants to buy your AIR...give them something else to buy!
 
WHP...looks like your new thread is also getting derailed. It turned into another advertisement.
 
GjB said:
WHP...looks like your new thread is also getting derailed. It turned into another advertisement.
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It's not a matter of it becoming an advertisement...my position is being attacked...so I'm defending my position by presenting my case.


He asked what do people think about a PRODUCER'S UNION...I'm telling what I think about a PRODUCER'S UNION, and addressing the conversation at hand.


Now if all you want are people to agree with you, then take it to a non-public forum...but while the discussion is in a PUBLIC forum for the PUBLIC, then I'm going to offer my opinion.
 
MystikCEO said:
WHP

Honestly if you start this union, only one thing will happen. In my opinion.

The go-getter producers are going to see this as an opportunity to lower their prices and become the go-to producers for rappers on the net.

I mean you aren't really eradicating any competition, you're just increasing it in a way.
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Wrong the go getter producers that arent in the union will get their face's boken. Non union beatmakers wont have the same oportunities. Internet or not
 
This is from beattips Sa'id si currently working to develop a union see below.

For the past five years I have been quietly working to develop a union for hip hop-rap beatmakers/producers. But before the reality takes hold, I would like to hear from fellow beatmakers/producers. Check out the three questions below and give your thoughts.

1. What sort of "minimums" would you suggest that a union establish? Here, "minimums" refers to payments and in-studio work sessions and/or in-studio work session waivers.

2. What sort of general protections would you want a music producer's union to secure for you?

3. How would you expect a union to expand the role and status of beatmakers/producers in the music industry?

There are many more factors to consider, however, I think the three questions above represent a good starting point. Share you views and ideas. Feel free to include your own questions and concerns.

- Sa'id
 
Sa'id was talking about a Producer's Union within THE MUSIC INDUSTRY. I think that is a great idea...much like the Screen Actors Guild.


What these guys are talking about is a producers union among INNERNET BEET MAKERS.




What's wrong with actually GIVING PEOPLE A REASON to buy your beats at the price you set?? How about setting yourself and your beats apart from the "cheap beats" crowd??


If you're gonna have a premium price, then have a premium product and/or service.
 
j.troup said:
Sa'id was talking about a Producer's Union within THE MUSIC INDUSTRY. I think that is a great idea...much like the Screen Actors Guild.


What these guys are talking about is a producers union among INNERNET BEET MAKERS.




What's wrong with actually GIVING PEOPLE A REASON to buy your beats at the price you set?? How about setting yourself and your beats apart from the "cheap beats" crowd??


If you're gonna have a premium price, then have a premium product and/or service.
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Your right troup he is talking about within the music industry. Web beatmakers cant be regulated thats insane. Shyt they are having a hard enough time trying to regulate anything on the internet.

Producers Union for internet beet makers? Face it guys its saturated and diying very fast yall need to get out into the real world.

Its not often that I say this but I totally agree with troup. If you're gonna have a premium price, then have a premium product and/or service. This shouldnt be rocket science make better beats then the free and 99 cent ones for one and 2 add additional services to offer besides just the beat.

Still after all is said and done internet beat selling is going to disapear so get that money while you still can. I for one never really was too turned on to selling beats online there is very little chance of getting a placement with an artist that I feel has real quality.very little talent to be found in these 16 year old rappers buying beats online.
 
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What flipn50 said is not illegal

But

If you try to form a union and set a price floor that no one can go under that is the epitomy of a cartel. Its Illegal. Its anti competitive and it possibly hurts quality in the long run



Think about this. If you set a price at $500. NOBODY will buy unknown producers beats everybody will flock to the internet "namebrands" instead. This will leave a few exclusive internet producers on the market to serve everybody. While the relatively unknown members in a union get screwed watchin the Vets make all the money from this new union. Once all these unknown producers get knocked out of the market. It will be a few producers left to serve everyone. And the quality will suffer because they will no longer be forced to compete with others and make there product that much better...........

In a perfect market competition= more quality.........If you put in a market control like a price floor the quality will eventually go down...

So the producers union would help producers like WHP and other sound click name brands but just about everybody else will be left holding the scraps............

By the way the price is so low because thats what consumers are willing to pay nowadays. Think. If industry artists and up and coming artists are forced to GIVE there music away free online. How in the hell can they pay producers hundreds of dollars a track? Rappers will only pay based on what they can make a profit on. If there set to sell millions then they will pay thousands. If there set to sell thousands they will pay hundreds.

If there giving it away free and earning income in other related ventures. Exactly the way the current market is shifting. Then there not gonna still pay YOU hundreds of dollars.....



And again how do you enforce a penalty if someone decides to undercut the price floor?
 
j.troup said:
What's wrong with actually GIVING PEOPLE A REASON to buy your beats at the price you set?? How about setting yourself and your beats apart from the "cheap beats" crowd??


If you're gonna have a premium price, then have a premium product and/or service.
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Agree. Increasing the price point of your product will not automatically increase the VALUE of your product. Either you got a superior product and your willing to sell it to a NICHE consumer base (producer union more as a online marketing concept than a real 'union') or you have to REDEFINE the product so it stands out from the already flooded market which is really the source of devaluation.

Lets use basketball as an analogy:

Millions of people play basketball everyday on a amateur/recreational level but few outside of the NBA can play at the level of Lebron/Kobe which is why people (many who ball themselves) are willing to pay for tickets to the game, cable subscriptions, merch, etc...If the average kid in the park could play at Lebron's level or close to that and I can watch them for free at the local court then from a business standpoint the commodity is DEVALUED. Don't blame the kid in the local park (just having fun), dont blame me the consumer blame the league for not bringing something to the table that's worth spending money on.

Focus your efforts on increasing the value of your product. The ones that can't expose themselves by looking for a scapegoat - 'oh he's giving his beats away for a dollar and bringing down the market', even though most of their favorite rappers are giving away original music to the consumer for FREE via mixtapes/online downloads and streams. Where is the 'outrage' about that? Oh let me guess, they are using mixtapes to help promote and market themselves right? Well maybe the producer that is giving his beats away for nothing....IS DOING THE EXACT SAME THING YOUR FAVORITE RAPPER IS DOING!!!!!!

If the purpose of a producer union is to filter (seperate) from the flooded online beat 'ghettos' and establish working/middle class/exclusive platforms then it can work if executed correctly. This is what is missing in the business right now, variable tiers. If the purpose is however to stop producers from selling tracks for cheap or free then it will be an exercise in futility.
 
DaBomb said:
By the way the price is so low because thats what consumers are willing to pay nowadays. Think. If industry artists and up and coming artists are forced to GIVE there music away free online. How in the hell can they pay producers hundreds of dollars a track? Rappers will only pay based on what they can make a profit on. If there set to sell millions then they will pay thousands. If there set to sell thousands they will pay hundreds.
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Now we're getting to REAL truth of the matter....
 
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