A Producers-Union?

W

WhiteHotPro

Guest
Since my last thread got derailed slightly, I'd like to open another discussion on beat prices and how we can stop the devaluation of our work.

The best solution I can think of is to try and establish a "producers union" - to use the power of numbers to try and influence the market. If producers collectively established a "price-floor", a price that all the producers agree not to sell below, we could try and establish a stronger standard for beat-cost. The more producers that join into the union, the stronger the unions influence is in determining the market-price. This should keep the market viable for a longer period of time, as a certain standard will have been set price-wise.

What does everyone think? I'm open to all ideas here, I just want our commodity to be viable in the longterm.
 
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I had a similar thought a while back.....I doubt it's gonna hold water though.

The fact is that more and more hobbyists can obtain "free" software and replicate a "professional" sound or style easily.

I agree with J Troup about your building your brand and using your music as a gateway to your "other" business.

Legal dollaz has also been throwin out gems regarding this for a minute now too.

To the OP: You have a solid brand name, use that to your advantage and branch out.

$.02

:cheers:
 
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Steve Hitta said:
I had a similar thought a while back.....I doubt it's gonna hold water though.

The fact is that more and more hobbyists can obtain "free" software and replicate a "professional" sound or style easily.

I agree with J Troup about your building your brand and using your music as a gateway to your "other" business.

Legal dollaz has also been throwin out gems regarding this for a minute now too.

To the OP: You have a solid brand name, use that to your advantage and branch out.

$.02

:cheers:
Click to expand...
I've done a ton of work to build my brand name, but if the market continues on the same path as it's currently on, I don't think it'll matter. I've already seen my profits take a hit from January 09 til now. I shudder to think what it'll be by this time next year.

bigdaddyslice said:
Isn't beatpal.com doin this?
Click to expand...

Anyone have any info regarding beatpal.com?
 
WHP

Honestly if you start this union, only one thing will happen. In my opinion.

The go-getter producers are going to see this as an opportunity to lower their prices and become the go-to producers for rappers on the net.

I mean you aren't really eradicating any competition, you're just increasing it in a way.
 
this has always been a fantasy for many producers/artists.
in an ideal world, it would be great WHP...but fact is not everyone will play by the rules.

the fact is places like soundclick have given artists the go to place for good quality beats for very low prices or even free!

they have these regulations within the supermarket and airlines businesses for example and allows everyone to have a healthy profit and at times companies have agreed to increase a fixed increase on good to exploit its customers.

the fact is this is the net, and nothing is regulated. there are so many avenues to sell beats and get the quick buck. the only way to stop it would be for the major sites to have a minimum price set, but then again there will be that one crafty producer who will undercut everyone and get the quick bucks.
shheit he can simply agrree to the union under his real production name, and then create a 2nd alias and start selling beats and get the quick buck.

the difference between producers and companies are start up costs. the fact is there are producers who cant compete with bedroom producers, who have a £200 laptop with a free cracked fl studio and these beat makers can sell cheap or for free!!! as they have no expenses to cover! so everything is a profit from the get go (minus the laptop cost).... however we have producers who have thousand $$$ of equipment and they need to recoup their costs...so they cant compete. think of it like the west trying to compete with 3rd world countries.... they cant compete in manufactruring costs!! impossible!

if an artist can get a dope ass beat for free...... why pay for 1?
thats the attitude of artists..... as for producers union.... well look at the United Nations..... they are set up to monitor everyone to play fair..... fact is not everyone is going to play fair and theres nothing this 'union' can do about it.

If i ruled the world........
 
Something has to be definitely be done about the devaluation of beats.If we keep going in this path, beats are gonna be worth shait.
 
People will always undercut what you are trying to do. I think your just going to have to wait until the trend dies down even further. It seems less and less people are trying to make tracks these days anyway so it is heading in the right direction. Just relax, find another source of income and when and if music comes around jump on that ish!
 
For one, depending on your definition it would be collusion.

It would be the definition of a cartel like OPEC.

Two, different markets demand different prices

Three, different producers on various levels of the game have to demand different prices. You cant set a price floor at say for example $500 and expect up and comers to be able to build any name brand recognition while established producers would eat well off a price floor. It would create a barrier to entry

Four, how would you enforce the rules of a union if someone broke them?

Five, how can an up and coming producer who's just now learning be expected to pay union dues when he's not yet making money

Six, a drop and profits is a symptom of a recession. Production isnt insulated from a recession. Especially when dealing with rappers paying out of pocket

Seven, an effective cartel or producers union would probably lower the number of producers. And while that would be good for business is that good for the quality of music? Its like coca cola and pepsi. Would the coke market benefit from a wider variety of companies quality wise? Hell yes...........but that isnt good for business for Coke and Pepsi
 
only way this would work is that there would have to b consequence for under cutting below the set price. thing is its a legit business i mean if it was the dope game when someone undercuts there ass gets shut down end of story but with this how can u regulate it. How r u gonna pull there beats off the market so they cant sell.
 
a producer's union will not work.


First of all, if you had a union of PROFESSIONAL producers, then that would be one thing...

Like electricians...or auto workers...u have people TRAINED in a certain profession...working in a certain industry...



But with "production", you're talking about having an organization, who's only requirement for entry is that they have an internet connection, so they can DL a copy of fruity loops.


It's like organizing a Screen Actors Guild, with every "model" and "actress" on myspace.



It'll never work. You're never gonna get organization on that type of scale...because you're dealing with KIDS...who can't even enter into a legal contract without their parents consent.



Sorry, but a producers union among people who really aren't even producers is just silly.
 
I took about two hours to write this while I'm at work so ya'll better read this:

I got an idea that we as a "union" can do to help us sell more exclusive beats, and make artists think twice before leasing 99 cent beats. Hear me out:

Artist hates it ( I mean they absolutely hates it!!!) when another artist have the same beats as them even if they are lease (a lease is still consider more exclusive then a free download, anyway...). This is the main reason why I can't sell leases on the street.

With this important fact in mind we as a union must reach out to the online artists and:

We must exaggerate the fact that 99 cent beat = 1 million artists are leasing it

  • 1.99 cent beat = 500,000 artists are leasing it
  • 5.00 beat = 250,000 artists are leasing it
  • 25.00 beat = only about 15 artists are leasing it or maybe none
The less the beat cost = the more artists are using it = FACT

Tell them:

  1. Do they want a beat that have been rape many time before like the Mili instrumental? They might as well download mainstream instrumental and raps on them.
  2. Do they want the same beat that a lot of less serious rappers rapped on and are currently promoting on internet and the street?
  3. Do they want a beat that everybody heard before because they are cheap and free? For example free beats that top SC producers puts out. All you hear on myspace and SC are tagged with Vybez, Johnny Juliano, and Superstar O.
  4. What happen if they made a hit with the 99 cent beat but a thousand other rappers are promoting the same beat at the same time? The lawsuits are not really worth it.
  5. What's the use of promoting a beat that everybody has heard before?

We must state the fact that million of music fans heard the free beats or 99 cent beats before, because they are saturated on myspace and mixtape. Yup! They are being pimped.

And mostly artists that buys 99 beats are in the category of:

  1. Middle and high school kids whom begged their parents to let them buy beats. The parents would let them purchased the beats with their paypal because "heck, it only cost 99 cent, i'll even buy you two."
  2. Shady wannabe producers (producers that don't make beats), yup, there are producers that buys 99 cent beats because they are generic, untagged, okay quality, and cheap. The shady producers buy the 99 cent beats and sell them on their website for the same price or higher.
  3. They will even sell it on the street for $100 or more. (we have shady producers on FP too) They are really common. WHP got jacked in the past.

Now we must get on the 99 cent producers and the "buy 1 get 10 free producers":

  • Why are they selling beats for so cheap?
  • Why are they giving out crazy specials? Do they want to build a huge fan base of less serious rappers?
  • Why do their 99 cent beats sound so generic?
  • Why don't they value their productions more?
  • Are they helping the music industry and local artists?
  • If they sell beats for that cheap and making a killing, what will they do once the market get saturated?
  • Are they really producers or a jacker?
  • Do they need money that bad?
  • Why don't they care about the other producers trying to make a living? (because they don't)
  • Are they trying to kill the market? (yes they are)

We can also share all of J-Troup posts in the other thread if he don't edit them, and even get an interview from him stating why he's doing what he's doing, because T-Troup have really valid points.

Here's how we can reach out to the online artists and let them know this vital information:

a youtube video - we need a charismatic producer with credentials to state all of this information on a video with top selling producers co-signing him.

We can even get money and reach out to top SC producers and let them speak on it. I think they would agree.

We can even get money reach out to 99 cent and discount producers and let them tell their side of the story, because they'll do anything for money right?

Article - we can hire somebody to write an article

How can we spread this information fast to everybody before the leasing game crash?

Every producers that is down with the union should post the video and article on their beat selling site, blog, myspace, facebook, email blast and twitter. I know I will.

I'm ready, lets do this!!!
 
If we put our money together for anything, and I mean anything. It should be to push out the information I stated all over the internet.
 
A professional union could be established, but entry requirements are needed.
For example:
-You have produced at least one album song that has been released digitally, or physically.

Something like that.
 
You people just can't get over the fact that a producer is making HOT MUSIC at 99 cents a pop.



Don't u realize in the grand scheme of things, 99 cents isn't much different from $25??



And don't you also realize that ANY digital product is subject to the EXACT SAME RAMPANT BOOTLEGGING (STEALING) THAT IS GOING ON IN THE MUSIC MAKING MARKET?!?!?


Your BEETS aren't SPECIAL!!! They are NOT exempt from FILE SHARING!!!



So why are y'all still talking about selling BEATS in 2009???



People don't buy beats...they buy EXPERIENCES, RELATIONSHIPS AND SERVICES...



Can't u get that thru your greasy head?





Y'all can't see the forest for the trees.
 
Did anybody read my huge azz post at all?

Ya'll just going to ignore it? I think I posted the most valid solution.
 
You know that it's illegal right ? :P This is anticompetitive and legally people can get sued for that. i am not too sure of how it would be handled on the internet though. :|

And seriously, I am not too scared. It only means one thing : the quality of the beats you sell has to improve even more.

So that the higher the price equals the higher the value in the eyes of the customers.

There has always been people selling 10$ instrumentals but honestly they were not good mostly.
Now that J.Troup sells for even cheaper, there is some kind of upheaval.
It should rather be an incentive to increase the level.
 
j.troup said:
You people just can't get over the fact that a producer is making HOT MUSIC at 99 cents a pop.

Don't u realize in the grand scheme of things, 99 cents isn't much different from $25??

And don't you also realize that ANY digital product is subject to the EXACT SAME RAMPANT BOOTLEGGING (STEALING) THAT IS GOING ON IN THE MUSIC MAKING MARKET?!?!?

Your BEETS aren't SPECIAL!!! They are NOT exempt from FILE SHARING!!!

So why are y'all still talking about selling BEATS in 2009???

People don't buy beats...they buy EXPERIENCES, RELATIONSHIPS AND SERVICES...

Can't u get that thru your greasy head?

Y'all can't see the forest for the trees.
Click to expand...

Who's this directed at?
Troup has a couple of good points here, and like I say, everybody and their momma makes beats.
So how do you stand out?

I won't reveal my plans, but it's deeper than beats and rap.
 
B.A.S.E said:
You know that it's illegal right ? :P This is anticompetitive and legally people can get sued for that. i am not too sure of how it would be handled on the internet though. :|

And seriously, I am not too scared. It only means one thing : the quality of the beats you sell has to improve even more.

So that the higher the price equals the higher the value in the eyes of the customers.

There has always been people selling 10$ instrumentals but honestly they were not good mostly.
Now that J.Troup sells for even cheaper, there is some kind of upheaval.
It should rather be an incentive to increase the level.
Click to expand...

Why is that illegal? maybe we shouldn't exaggerate, but just tell the truth of how things is to the artists.

We are not going to call out names of 99 cent producers.
 
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