TonyG shyt on sites like PMP

[j.troup]

if you tell artists that, then what exactly are they working w/ you for if you can't make them a "success"?

isn't that why artists work w/ producah'z in the first place?

Artists don't work with producers for them to make the artist a success. They work with producers to get great music.


Great music doesn't make someone a success. It's what people DO with that great music that makes them a success.



I can give them the great music. But I can't get out there and hustle it for them. I'm too busy hustling my own music.


And they understand that. That's why they book themselves shows, they get out there and build their own fanbases, and sell their own music. Because the people that I work with understand that THEY have to GET it...nothing is going to be GIVEN to them.

 

[yiG-IDo]

nobody cares about this 500 post thread mfkers

 

[[F_or_DEAF]]

Artists don't work with producers for them to make the artist a success. They work with producers to get great music.


Great music doesn't make someone a success. It's what people DO with that great music that makes them a success.


I can give them the great music. But I can't get out there and hustle it for them. I'm too busy hustling my own music.


And they understand that. That's why they book themselves shows, they get out there and build their own fanbases, and sell their own music. Because the people that I work with understand that THEY have to GET it...nothing is going to be GIVEN to them.

word...give 'em the music so they can hustle it THEMSELVES...

awesome clarification Troup...

you been killin' the boards lately...real shyt...

 

[Voss25]

You can't look past the fact the rookies have no leverage, when rookies are looking at major placements as the only form of a viable career in music.

Well, if ppl r only looking at major placements as their source of income when they ain't at that level yet or have those relationships in place, then something is wrong.

U gotta set up your own situation to advance your career. What I'm saying is there ain't nothing wrong with going after major label placements at the same time. MULTIPLE STREAMS OF INCOME. All the wealthiest people in the world do that. Don't put all your eggs in this or that basket, put em in both, and then some.

are you saying that "credit" is more important than "publishing" in certain scenarios?

No. They're both important...which is more important to you may be the fame vs fortune factor. However, if you're in a scenario where you are not gonna get your publishing, then fight for credit on the track. Even if it's credit as a session musician. Get something so you can prove to ppl that you worked on that record. You can then parlay that into more work. That's the significance of maintaining credit of your work even if they rape your publishing.

 

[[F_or_DEAF]]

fight for credit on the track. Even if it's credit as a session musician. Get something so you can prove to ppl that you worked on that record. You can then parlay that into more work. That's the significance of maintaining credit of your work

word...

thanks for the answer!

 

[dwells]

My 2 cents......
(but my 2 cents are worth alot more than you would think.)

Now sense my migraine is almost over (30+ hours of pure pain but I've had a headache sense sunday) and I'm starting to think more clearly now. I'm chiming in on some of this nonsense.

I need to keep things simple here. 90% of what I teach here is music business 091, high school level. so I can't get into the real sht because it will just mess up most people here. I'm keeping it basic, very basic.

1, publishing is everything. publishing is commonly referred to performance licensing (ascap, bmi, sesac) and sometimes mechanical licensing (label). this is NOT the same as licensing your beats! actually it is very similar, but very different. Another lesson. but Publishing

2. Which is more important? Publishing or credit? that is the same as which is more important? money or brand recognition? sometimes you need to sacrifice one for the other, think of it as advertising expenses. but don't be hasty or allow your little emotions to dictate your decision, this is chess against DEEP FRITZ (google it). Sometimes you need to sacrifice your queen to win the game.

3. Rookies have leverage, it's their music. their catalog! I know of writers who have no placements offered 250k for a pub deal! I know unknown producers work on one of the biggest albums of the year, in fact he has the first single, (You know the song, I don't need to reference it). And he keeps the credits and publishing. But it all comes down to your songs, and if your business is in order. Sometimes it's easier for one of us suits just to have one of you to do a work for hire. It avoids drama and makes the process easier, especially when it comes to liability. especially when it comes to sampling. please make things easier for the people you want to do business with an take care of your business before you try to do business. see a real entertainment lawyer for questions and answers. also try clearing samples before you try to sell the beat. true it's the 'labels' responsibility, but it's your money that the will negotiate and sometimes it's just easier fro them to pass or work for hire it. this is all leverage. your leverage is more than your discography.

4. It is your career. and nobody cares about it besides you.

5. it's about the song, not your beats. fck your beats, keep that sht for your little beat battles. focus on making good songs.

 

[[F_or_DEAF]]

take care of your business before you try to do business.

WORD...

epic post...

 

[JeanLukPigheart]

you gotta love it.

the same wannabe-experts who told you that they will soon be major players, getting contracts and money on global scale, now tell you how they ALWAYS KNEW that the whole thing is about to break into pieces.

the same people who advertised PMP as THE connection to the Big League of Major Placements, are now saying, it's pre-filtered Myspace (with a fee).

now they try to tell you what REALITY looks like - a reality they have never been a part of. not because they didn't want to, but because they are simply not FRIENDLY enough to be (nobody likes an idiot who thinks he knows it ALL, but never did ANYTHING) and because the material they "hustle" is SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

LMAO

just because YOUR dream of being the super-producer will never become reality (because you simply don't have it), doesn't mean that you can't make a good living selling your music (especially SONGS) these days.

now if your stuff is mediocre, but you put some sort of entitlement into your equation, hey, you can continue to spoil the fun for others.

these days, you can get a couple of grand for your first "major steps", a couple of years ago, you'd get fvcked by the Super Producer that hired you to "play some keys". LOL

 

[iambase]

My 2 cents......
(but my 2 cents are worth alot more than you would think.)

Now sense my migraine is almost over (30+ hours of pure pain but I've had a headache sense sunday) and I'm starting to think more clearly now. I'm chiming in on some of this nonsense.

I need to keep things simple here. 90% of what I teach here is music business 091, high school level. so I can't get into the real sht because it will just mess up most people here. I'm keeping it basic, very basic.

1, publishing is everything. publishing is commonly referred to performance licensing (ascap, bmi, sesac) and sometimes mechanical licensing (label). this is NOT the same as licensing your beats! actually it is very similar, but very different. Another lesson. but Publishing

2. Which is more important? Publishing or credit? that is the same as which is more important? money or brand recognition? sometimes you need to sacrifice one for the other, think of it as advertising expenses. but don't be hasty or allow your little emotions to dictate your decision, this is chess against DEEP FRITZ (google it). Sometimes you need to sacrifice your queen to win the game.

3. Rookies have leverage, it's their music. their catalog! I know of writers who have no placements offered 250k for a pub deal! I know unknown producers work on one of the biggest albums of the year, in fact he has the first single, (You know the song, I don't need to reference it). And he keeps the credits and publishing. But it all comes down to your songs, and if your business is in order. Sometimes it's easier for one of us suits just to have one of you to do a work for hire. It avoids drama and makes the process easier, especially when it comes to liability. especially when it comes to sampling. please make things easier for the people you want to do business with an take care of your business before you try to do business. see a real entertainment lawyer for questions and answers. also try clearing samples before you try to sell the beat. true it's the 'labels' responsibility, but it's your money that the will negotiate and sometimes it's just easier fro them to pass or work for hire it. this is all leverage. your leverage is more than your discography.

4. It is your career. and nobody cares about it besides you.

5. it's about the song, not your beats. fck your beats, keep that sht for your little beat battles. focus on making good songs.

enuff said.

 

[AveMcree]

you gotta love it.

the same wannabe-experts who told you that they will soon be major players, getting contracts and money on global scale, now tell you how they ALWAYS KNEW that the whole thing is about to break into pieces.

the same people who advertised PMP as THE connection to the Big League of Major Placements, are now saying, it's pre-filtered Myspace (with a fee).

now they try to tell you what REALITY looks like - a reality they have never been a part of. not because they didn't want to, but because they are simply not FRIENDLY enough to be (nobody likes an idiot who thinks he knows it ALL, but never did ANYTHING) and because the material they "hustle" is SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

LMAO

just because YOUR dream of being the super-producer will never become reality (because you simply don't have it), doesn't mean that you can't make a good living selling your music (especially SONGS) these days.

now if your stuff is mediocre, but you put some sort of entitlement into your equation, hey, you can continue to spoil the fun for others.

these days, you can get a couple of grand for your first "major steps", a couple of years ago, you'd get fvcked by the Super Producer that hired you to "play some keys". LOL

sounds like you've been fukked over.................................alot

I bet you dont get along with people either... not good for makin move in the industry thts hard to find a way to get in and stay pimp....

honestly, you have to be a follower b4 you learn how to lead... I had many mentors & have many co'productions lol... funny thing is, alot of success producers in todays and yesterdays music biz (via Neptunes worked under Teddy Riley, Danjahands under timberland, Scott Scotch under Dr. Dre)

music is built on "relationships" if you cant hold true to that, how you expect ppl (on a fanbase level) to like you?? lol the internet is such a powerful tool now tht cats are getting buried (careers) cuz of blogs and etc... lol

the internet is winning this musical warfare as well

 

[JeanLukPigheart]

sounds like you've been fukked over.................................alot

lol, not at all. I dunno how you get that impression. that's actually funny, because I have helped many NOT getting fvked.

I bet you dont get along with people either... not good for makin move in the industry thts hard to find a way to get in and stay pimp....

I get along with people just fine. you would be surprised how many people like me sarcastic little self. but I don't get along with EVERY SINGLE MOFU. that's the difference between being real and acting ("riding dyck") to "get in". and it's not hard to find a way into the industry. it is hard to stay relevant though. lol

honestly, you have to be a follower b4 you learn how to lead... I had many mentors & have many co'productions lol... funny thing is, alot of success producers in todays and yesterdays music biz (via Neptunes worked under Teddy Riley, Danjahands under timberland, Scott Scotch under Dr. Dre)

I had many mentors. I still have some. but there are two kinds of mentors: those who can show you how great they are and those who can help you find out if YOU are great or not. I had the luck to meet the latter category, exclusively.

btw, I know all of that shyt, but it has nothing to do with my post. you made a sarcastic post of mine sound like an EMO-clusterfvck. LOL

music is built on "relationships" if you cant hold true to that, how you expect ppl (on a fanbase level) to like you?? lol the internet is such a powerful tool now tht cats are getting buried (careers) cuz of blogs and etc... lol

I have no problem doing what I want. I am definitely not dependent on industry money. and you wouldn't believe how little a person can be/has to be dependent on industry money. you don't speak to a person who has to get along with any mofu, no matter if he's cool or an a$$hole, JUST to get a check. and it's a great feeling.

people feel your vibe. and they feel when you are FAKE. they don't care if you are an Uncle Tom or the young rebelious "self-made superman". just because YOU are out here "doing business" or promoting yourself (intentionally or not), doesn't mean I have to. I am just the little music fan/beat maker in here. not riding dyck, not being a hater. just being me - and I'm not one-dimensional.

the internet is winning this musical warfare as well

the internet is a medium. "it" can't win anything. the conglomerates/aggregating companies are still connected to the same couple of networks.
it doesn't matter if you call it "Label with hot artists" or "Hot FM Radio Station" or "Best Music Television" or "Most Popular Internet Website for Music Fans".

nothing changed. sure, Soulja Boy was an internet phenomenon (for one song), just as the Fat Boys in the 80s were the "Swatch Watch Guys with that commercial".

fragmentation? sure. more people coming "out of nowhere"? sure. major music players "dying"? no. the names will change. the medium will change. the formats change. the MONEY goes out and goes INTO the same pockets. THAT didn't change much.

and I've seen it and talked about it with some people years ago. living through the Napster and iTunes age and not seeing the change? impossible.
seeing Youtube and Myspace and "prophecizing" internet taking a more important role in the music industry? not hard.

but still, Walmart, Nike & McDonalds won't die out.

 

[Noyzi]

It seems sometimes that people confuse what labels do outside of promotion and distribution. You could pop the trunk and make enuff money to pay rent and drive a nice car but does that make your music a success? The level of success you want determines the avenues you crave to get into since that's the proven way to reach your goals. If it's to do shows and sell records on the chittlin circuit like 3-6 and 8ball n MJG did before they went major then cool but todays artist don't have the staying power to even bother going one city at a time. Half these guys are to young to know how to survive during those tough times or how to save during the good ones, so the majors will babysit these guys, take advantage of them, make them sign a 360 deal and get money off everything they do outside of dice and cardgames. That's why theres tons of 17-20 yr old artist out, these guys arent prodigys there just gullable. A laywer knows that if they push too hard then the label will pass them up so they settle for the best of the worst situations offered them. I'm not say'n that majors are totally bad but every conversation I've had with rappers or singers thay all pretty much say the same thing..."If I knew then what I know now". Indies are getting there power back and these new digital/home labels are getting a great oppertunity to build there own way of doing things without hard copies as a major way to build revenue. Think about it guys... All I have to do is advertise and pay to record an album to realisticly expect atleast 80,000(60,000 digital) copies total which will be a 300% profit? It's safe to say that the playing field is even and the opportunity is as obvious as knowing where to find music online and putting your stuff right next to there's. The only problem now is not having the high paid guy(A&R) that could help guide your project in the right direction cause your doing it all yourself. That's what the artist is gonna have to do thru hiring a person for that directly. If he sucks...you can fire him and get a better perspective that you can atleast agree with. It puts more business in the hands of the artist but it also gives these guys there control back. People talk about SB but if you check his twitter he stay busy gett'n money to the point he's tired of working. That's a good situation for such a hated on artist. If your 13 and listen to SB then he gets paid, if your 30 and don't, he still gets paid from ur household anyways if your the parent to that 13 yr old...lol Think about it, If you put hotels on Baltic Ave your still gonna get paid cause of what you made it not what it started as. I'm excited to see the new model arrising but I can't help but feel like all these out thinkers are gonna make it a mess before we can stop the big guys from deviding and conquering it back to the way it was. KISS it guys...
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid...

 

[j.troup]

you gotta love it.

the same wannabe-experts who told you that they will soon be major players, getting contracts and money on global scale, now tell you how they ALWAYS KNEW that the whole thing is about to break into pieces.

the same people who advertised PMP as THE connection to the Big League of Major Placements, are now saying, it's pre-filtered Myspace (with a fee).

now they try to tell you what REALITY looks like - a reality they have never been a part of. not because they didn't want to, but because they are simply not FRIENDLY enough to be (nobody likes an idiot who thinks he knows it ALL, but never did ANYTHING) and because the material they "hustle" is SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

LMAO

Oh just say my name already. Everybody who's been on this board longer than 2 weeks knows who you're talking about.


At least have big enough balls to do that.

 

[SannyBoi]

Oh just say my name already. Everybody who's been on this board longer than 2 weeks knows who you're talking about.


At least have big enough balls to do that.

hahaha gotta luv troop man

 

[dwells]

Everyone is stuck in the past. they are living like it is 2005 and people have money. Mechanical sales are dead, and why would some one spend 99 cents on some bullsht that they can find free.

Meaning, your cd is not going to sell, You can hustle a few units, but does your cd sell when you are not there? AND nobody is fvkking with myspace today. seriously who's still using myspace for music? everyone here is coat tailing, chasing the trends that already passed.

I'm tired of people saying this is how 50 did it, sht this was 6 years ago. or this is how so and so did it, well I never heard of so and so! use valid and current examples. I'm all about understanding the past, you need to learn your history. but only a handful of people here actually know who edgar bronfman is and how he effected the music industry.

Truthfully the people here (and this place represents everywhere) are too ignorant plan their careers. They have fragmented plans, if any. People need to learn more about the climate, the past, and current trends to figure out where this industry is heading.

ALL money in this industry comes from OWNERSHIP. and from licensing. and only a few people here actually know what licensing is. IT IS NOT LEASING!!!!

Also the so called 'producers' here don't even know what a producer is. I'm not trying to get in the same old argument with someone who doesn't know better. Most people here think beats are what is important, BEATS DON'T MEAN SHT!!! They really don't, no consumer cares about beats. I've never heard a chick in the club saying 'this is my beat'. the only people who care about beats are beatmakers, backpackers, and a few artist. The rest of the world cares about songs!!! SONGS, SONGS, SONGS, SONGS, SONGS, SONGS, SONGS!!!!!
The finished work!!

I'm tired of excuses, really I am. 'This is the best I can do with my equipment', 'my girl is jealous', 'I just need my first placement, then everything will be cool', "I just want to make a living, nothing more", or my favorite "If I had a manager, then I can focus on the creative".
Seriously!!!!! Are you all for real!!!! Stop doing this 'music sht', and go back to retail. Apply at Walmart, you have a better chance there. you are not cut out for this industry, stop wasting time. Just throw in the flag and quit. This is not a pep talk, if you need a pep talk, quit!! This is the truth! Just Quit!!!

 

[j.troup]

hahaha gotta luv troop man

He knows it's true. This guy has been busting my balls for YEARS from behind an alias...


My story is public record. Just about every single detail. My music is out there, my business is out there, EVERYTHING...full disclosure.



This cat like to hide behind his ALIAS and take pot shots at me.


Where's your story? Where's your music? Where's your ANYTHING???



Because at this point, you're a shadow hater. You gotta either put up or shut up. You don't get to talk sh*t about me without opening yourself up to the same criticism.



I'm calling u out. Right now.

 

[dwells]

Oh just say my name already. Everybody who's been on this board longer than 2 weeks knows who you're talking about.


At least have big enough balls to do that.

He might be talking about me, but i don't care. you know, I'm a wanna-be expert. lol. actually I prefer consultant. and I live in perpetual reality.

 

[JeanLukPigheart]

Oh just say my name already. Everybody who's been on this board longer than 2 weeks knows who you're talking about.


At least have big enough balls to do that.

why are you such a self-centered prick? you ARE one of the guys I'm talking about, but not the only one. far from that.

read my damn post. when I make a joke in a another thread like "the world is so small, it'd fit on JTroup's dyck".............you ARE JTroup, right? don't take yourself too seriously.

do you think I'm really interested in who you are/what you do? you are annoying sometimes, that's it. doesn't mean that I "hate" you/what you do or that I don't wish you success with your endeavors or "projects".

you'd have to be a much bigger A$$HOLE for me to care. you are not. and why should I be concerned with someone who is constantly talking DOWN to people? you are not that high Icarus.

I share my opinion (as unimportant as it is), you try to build up a persona who's opinion becomes valid through his status. you don't need that. you are a grown a$$ man. so get over yourself dude. you are NOT "The One" I was talking about.

I'm back to the studio - you are the name-dropping expert. or at least, you used to be.

 

[Noyzi]

damn, u really could use a FP break man. it's 9:45 am est and ur already pissed? This is just a conversation man. edgar bronfman and his families money can't effect self-entrepreneurship with a budget of $50k or less which is what alot of projects are going to be funded like.
This convo is about sorting out the concept of a new direction and finding that suitable lane for success. Producers/Artist don't have an advocate but they do have an understanding that it could be done with going back to the roots like you claim we don't understand. Texas artist did what BB King and Ray Charles did in the 50-60. Thats the way to go right now. Majors are making a mokery of us as intellegent people and not understanding that will land you in a box of debt and frustration Black Rob can tell you all about. Forget the majors for now, there a mess. Be your own man FP cause it's the only way to get anything worth having in the long run.Groups like lil brother and deadprez are happier then Young Burg's in debt a$$ will ever be, and he's the story that's the norm not drake's situation.

 

[j.troup]

why are you such a self-centered prick? you ARE one of the guys I'm talking about, but not the only one. far from that.

So stop taking pot shots and say people's names. Dont' be a b*tch about it.

do you think I'm really interested in who you are/what you do? you are annoying sometimes, that's it. doesn't mean that I "hate" you/what you do or that I don't wish you success with your endeavors or "projects".

Never said you hate me. But you're constantly busting my balls over sh*t. And clearly I struck a nerve, because you're ranting right now.

So yes, you' are interested in who I am and what I do.

you'd have to be a much bigger A$$HOLE for me to care. you are not. and why should I be concerned with someone who is constantly talking DOWN to people? you are not that high Icarus.

Sounds like you care to me.

I share my opinion (as unimportant as it is), you try to build up a persona who's opinion becomes valid through his status. you don't need that. you are a grown a$$ man. so get over yourself dude. you are NOT "The One" I was talking about.

Opinions are validated through status. It's called SHOWING AND PROVING.

People value my opinion because they know that I'm talking from places that I've been, experiences that I've had. And those places and experiences are PUBLIC RECORD.



Your opinion comes from a screen name. That's it. A screen name that you use as a shield to ruthlessly attack other people's opinions, ideas, music, business, etc.

And you feel relatively safe, because you don't have to be subject to the same criticism that you give to other people, because you don't put ANYTHING about yourself out there.



So...since you're an expert on the music...WHERE'S YOURS?? It probably doesn't exist, or sounds like Soulja Boy got his first casio keyboard last christmas.

You're an expert on people's business...WHERE'S YOURS?? Probably under under the twin bed, in your bedroom, in your mama's house...next to the soggy hustler mags.



You're done around here. You can't talk sh*t and have nothing to show for it.



You're officially a fraud...unless you prove otherwise.