Sampling is Outdated???

[Project Girl]

Not when MILLIONS of fans love it. That's about 925,000 more(425,000 if they went gold, know they did one or the other)than who know my sh*t. I can learn from them before they learn from me.

Sure, about how to be popular with millions of teenagers and make money. I kinda doubt you could learn anything about creating excellent music, though.

Whos to say EMO, Ska, The British Invasion was or wasn't fads?

Well, that's easy - a fad, by definition, appears, burns bright, then dies quickly. The British Invasion was definitely not a fad. Only time will tell whether "snap music" is a fad.

PG

Woo Lawd Jesus, I think we see the light!

Um... RJ... I've been making that point for 11 pages.

PG

 

[R.Jaye]

Public Apology

My sincerest apologies to the thread starter for hi-jacking your thread.

Didnt mean to veer so far off topic.

R.Jaye

um PG, I didnt have the patience to sift through 11 pages

 

[Project Girl]

My sincerest apologies to the thread starter for hi-jacking your thread.

Didnt mean to veer so far off topic.

R.Jaye

um PG, I didnt have the patience to sift through 11 pages

Uhh, RJ, I wasn't suggesting that you do that. You had already read a lot of my posts, since you replied to them.. I figured that having read them, you would know that I wasn't only "beginning to see the light".

PG

 

[R.Jaye]

PG, I'm told that I'm not the best at conveying ideas through text and email. lol

What I meant to say was that you very eloquently summed up the point of the whole Marketing vs Craftsmentship aka Product vs Packaging.

hence my "WE see the light" comment

hence me using the AMG analogy without mentioning they are owned by Mercedes-Benz AG

no confusion intended

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

I understand the point you're making, but I can't see that mass-culture popularity or influence is a basis on which to judge the *quality* of a piece of music, its craftsmanship, as Xabiton says.

Maybe we need to be more specific. Yes, "something was done right" when they made Laffy Taffy - but that "something" wasn't quality music, would you say? That "something" is more like, a slick commerical marketing scheme that worked.

PG

Did they say, "hey let's do this song and make some money", or did they say "we've got a sound that's never been done before, let's take it to the masses and see what happens". None of us were there to know. People could say the same thing about Elvis. Definetly say it about Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston, could even say it about Barry Gordy's savvy way of putting together the marketable Supremes and Jackson 5. What makes D4L different?

I'm sure when I first started making beats I pumped out worse tracks than Laffy Taffy, and I poured my heart out on the keyboard back then. Now I play full riffs 1 handed with my eyes closed and don't think twice about it. Which one shows more determination?

 

[R.Jaye]

I'm sure when I first started making beats I pumped out worse tracks than Laffy Taffy, and I poured my heart out on the keyboard back then. Now I play full riffs 1 handed with my eyes closed and don't think twice about it. Which one shows more determination?

Apparently you practiced, studied, focused and learned to get to "Now I can play (Insert instrument of choice) 1 handed with my eyes closed..."

Regardless, I think you answered that yourself

 

[Xabiton]

Respect? I truly believe in it. I should "respect" everyone's effort no matter how little? Can't agree with that.

Let be put it this way, "Art" is subjective. To each his own, whateva.

However, craftsmanship is a whole 'nother convo.

Anyone familiar with the AMG brand name? Forget the car its in, because if you try and buy either separate, the engine is $20k more than the car! Why is that? 400hp? 600ftlbs torque? Marquee?

None of the above. A tweaked hemi could murder those stats.

Its value is determined because it is one of the handful of production cars with a HANDBUILT engine. Every engine is stamped with the signature and name of the ONE MAN who built it.

Thier motto, One Man, One Machine.

How does this relate to music? I cant respect lack of craftsmanship. Just cant bend my mind to do that.

I dont flynch when I see a Maserati, but I get rock when I spot an E63 or E55!

How do I judge? Doesnt matter the beat, I nodded my head to "Snap Ya Fingaz" until it got old. However, I'm a producer! I've caught myself nodding to a clock tick lol!
but I guarentee you more "art" went into making that damn clock than laffy taffy.


when the novelty wears off, whats left? a room full of one-hit wonders and a "where are they now" special.

this has to be some of the most closed minded statements ive ever read on fp. your treating your opinion as if it were fact when its not. this would be like me saying i hate country music outside of Carrie Underwood it all sucks (shes just dope) so its not music i cant respect it even tho millions of people love it just like millions love laffy taffy. The only people who really talk down on Laffy Taffy are unknown rappers and producers. Well a few fans too but not nearly close to the number of people who love it. Its one thing to note like something its something else to take away from it because u dislike it

heard someone say something about interpolations sounding keyboardy, well if its composed on strictly a keyboard what do you expect. you can have a session band and do a interpolation then sample that.

of course the sounds in synths are samples, samples of the individual instruments. that can be tweaked to your desire.

also when you don't have the money to clear samples, of course your gonna do all compositions, once you get money then you can pay to clear samples.

like i keep saying nothing sounds as good as the real instrument. you can sample a scratch, or you can actually get a turn table and do your own scratching. you can sample someone elses guitar riff or you can play your own.

most people sample because samples have a distinc sound, that they cant recreate, hell i even heard someone say they sample because the drums are already mastered.

i said i dont like interpolations because i dont like how they sound. not keyboardy whatever that means. they just dont sound like the real thing to me. also synths are not sample based theyre tone generated like a telephone dial tone u play wtih different parameters and it sounds different but all it really is is a dial tone.

I'm smart enough to now I don't know everything. That makes me waaaaay smarter than someone who thinks they have all the answers. Therefore I'm given the power of observation that gives me even more answers than the guy who already got his and refuses to hear any others. Which would make me no better than the guy who already has all the answers, but I'm smart enough to observe his P.O.V. as well and use reasoning in determining my own.

thats just maturity. any grown man can tell u that over the age of 25. Im 23 and startin to feel that way. A young man will try to pretend he knows everything a wise man only preaches what he knows and is willing to put his pride to the side and admit when hes wrong or just truly has no idea

Sure, about how to be popular with millions of teenagers and make money. I kinda doubt you could learn anything about creating excellent music, though. 11 pages.
PG

sure u can. catchy hooks, memorable melodies hell the fact that we are even talking about Laffy Taffy is a testament to it getting the job done. if more people worried about appealing to fans and not crafting super perfect compositions and just had fun with the must most of the music out would be a lot better

 

[R.Jaye]

this has to be some of the most closed minded statements ive ever read on fp. your treating your opinion as if it were fact when its not. this would be like me saying i hate country music outside of Carrie Underwood it all sucks (shes just dope) so its not music i cant respect it even tho millions of people love it just like millions love laffy taffy. The only people who really talk down on Laffy Taffy are unknown rappers and producers. Well a few fans too but not nearly close to the number of people who love it. Its one thing to note like something its something else to take away from it because u dislike it

hmmm, so let me see.

I speak about handbuilt craftsmanship, relate it to musicianship (on a site full of musicians) and get crucified.

Cool.

Maestro please...

If we're all entitled to our "opinions, beliefs, ect..." why attack me for mine? Never stated anything concerning your maturity, thanks for pointing out my lack-thereof (although I'm sure my investors would dissagree).

However attempting to justify "The masses must be right" is ice-skating uphill.

GW won the last election based upon a fear campaign (fact)
Polls show belief that americans are any safer is at post 911 low(fact)

AMG is a handbuilt engine now owned by Mercedes-Benze (fact)
AMG engines sell for an average of $10-15K more than a Mercedes shell (fact)

The craftsmanship put into productions by Mayfield, Isaac Hayes, James Brown and Motown Camp have been greatly applauded for thier composition and complexity (fact)

No one will pay $100k to clear a D4L sample (eeeeh, I'm willing to put dough on this one)

Xabiton-
"sure u can. catchy hooks, memorable melodies hell the fact that we are even talking about Laffy Taffy is a testament to it getting the job done."

No sir. It is a statement to how well the marketing machine shoved the song through the airwaves for 6 months.

Xabition-
"if more people worried about appealing to fans and not crafting super perfect compositions and just had fun with the must most of the music out would be a lot better"

Isnt that what half of FP is b*ching about concerning commercial radio?

 

[Xabiton]

hmmm, so let me see.

I speak about handbuilt craftsmanship, relate it to musicianship (on a site full of musicians) and get crucified.

Cool.

Maestro please...

If we're all entitled to our "opinions, beliefs, ect..." why attack me for mine? Never stated anything concerning your maturity, thanks for pointing out my lack-thereof (although I'm sure my investors would dissagree).

However attempting to justify "The masses must be right" is ice-skating uphill.

GW won the last election based upon a fear campaign (fact)
Polls show belief that americans are any safer is at post 911 low(fact)

AMG is a handbuilt engine now owned by Mercedes-Benze (fact)
AMG engines sell for an average of $10-15K more than a Mercedes shell (fact)

The craftsmanship put into productions by Mayfield, Isaac Hayes, James Brown and Motown Camp have been greatly applauded for thier composition and complexity (fact)

No one will pay $100k to clear a D4L sample (eeeeh, I'm willing to put dough on this one)

nobody is attacking u lol. i am simply having a conversation with others if u cannot handle i dont know what to tell u. my comment about maturity had nothing to do with u it was a comment made towards derange'd on his mindset thats all. Saying you are closed minded is not attacking you either its simply stating that your opinions are closed minded because they are. You see things one way and one way only thats being closed minded I never said it was good or bad why r u so defensive? And your list of facts u have some good points and bad ones mixed in there but its still all your opinion. U mention Mayfield, Hayes and Motown ect who have been complimented by the masses. Who are loved by the masses and sold a lot of records and they were great but also their audience was somewhat informed. I believe George W could have cheated to win (again) I also didn't trust John Kerry. I voted for Ralph Nader. For this upcoming election I dont like Hilary and i dont trust Obama so Ill probabaly be voting for another party again unless my views on either of them change. I dont build cars and I am satified being ignorant about how they are built. I just want to drive from point a to point b and the fact that craftsman ship was put into it is lost on me because I simply do not know any better or care for that matter. And fans of today listen to music the same way. U cannot hold standards of yesterday over people of today because times are different this is the reason why mp3s rule the world right now even tho most everyone knows its not a high quality file they dont care because they can hear it. Music of today lacks in craftsman ship and is more based on quanity and it is sad to see but that doesnt make it all bad music.

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

nobody is attacking u lol. i am simply having a conversation with others if u cannot handle i dont know what to tell u. my comment about maturity had nothing to do with u it was a comment made towards derange'd on his mindset thats all.

So what you sayin' about my mind set Xabiton? You sayin my mind ain't set right? You sayin I got the mind set of an idiot? I'm here to entertain you? What kinda funny am I? How am I funny? You think I'm funny? I'll show you funny?

I couldn't resist.

 

[Xabiton]

So what you sayin' about my mind set Xabiton? You sayin my mind ain't set right? You sayin I got the mind set of an idiot? I'm here to entertain you? What kinda funny am I? How am I funny? You think I'm funny? I'll show you funny?

I couldn't resist.

*hits the floor* lmbao

 

[R.Jaye]

thanks for AMOGing, really.

The standards of yesterday? Ok, Just Blaze to Nitti; who demands more $$$ Shyt even JD to D4L.

Sure, dollars rule the day. Packaging a product properly makes the sale (i'm a businessman, I speak the truth on this much).

However craftsmenship came into the picture when we spoke about what makes a product (artist, cars, whateva) stick around.

Son, you cant sell me enough liquor get me to invest in D4L. Why? because I cant see anything that will generate a long term return.

However give me a producer who can sample, compose and orchestrate (the total package); now thats my guy!

Look at some of the producers on FP who are single-threaded. They may get thier moment in time, maybe not. However look at the craftsmen who can make damn near anything, give you any flavor you want and still have thier feel to it.
now thats a good investment.

btw

I've noticed as you use spell check more and more, your spelling seems to start to really suck. guess its downhill with age lol

 

[Xabiton]

thanks for AMOGing, really.

The standards of yesterday? Ok, Just Blaze to Nitti; who demands more $$$ Shyt even JD to D4L.

Sure, dollars rule the day. Packaging a product properly makes the sale (i'm a businessman, I speak the truth on this much).

However craftsmenship came into the picture when we spoke about what make a product (artist, cars, whateva) stick around.

Son you cant sell me enough liquor get me to invest in D4L. Why? because I cant see anything that will generate a long term return.

However give me a producer who can sample, compose and orchestrate; now thats my guy!

Look at some of the producers on FP who or single-threaded. They may get thier moment in time, maybe not. However look at the craftsmen who can make damn near anything, give you any flavor you want and still have thier feel to it.
now thats a good investment.

There you go again putting off your opinion as fact lol. U might not invest in D4L but its a proven fact they can sell records Id definately invest in them even tho I do not like their music. I'm a guy who can compose, sample, orchestra, interpolate, and create sounds. i know a lot of technical aspects of making music but I'd take a producer such as Kanye who isn't so technically oriented over any of my tracks to invest in anyday not because of skill or talent which is subjective but he has proven he can get the job done. Id invest in D4L before I invested in Little Brother and I really enjoy Little Brother because I believe more in D4L in a business sense. How can I business man not see easy money when its sittin in front of him is beyond me.

 

[R.Jaye]

good point, easy money.

D4L wouldnt take much money to generate a return, correct?

good point, easy money.

Just Blaze would most likely take much more, agreed?

D4L's peak price has most likely hit and is on its decline (market observance)

Just's peak may have hit, however he has the versatility to move to other sectors and still remain respected (in biz, referred to as a gazelle).

Short term medium gain vs longterm maximum gain. hmmm

ask warren buffett, gates, larry ellison the list goes on.

 

[Xabiton]

D4L put out a couple of songs and had one hit. We wont truely know how well they can do until the next song comes out. They could very easily put out something else as big as Laffy Taffy and even the fact that a year and a half almost 2 years later we are still talking about Laffy Taffy is a testament enough to know that they ain't goin anywhere anytime soon. They know the formula. Im not arguing that Just Blaze isn't great. Hes one of my favorites but this isn't a vs thing this is a whos making universally good music. Your talking about who u like and only who u like. This is whats I mean by closed minded. You will not go beyond yourself to see what I'm talking about.

 

[R.Jaye]

Odd, we went from long term investments to opinions again.

you wouldnt draft a ball player straight outta highschool for one good season.

you want a proven track record

you wouldnt pick a race driver to invest in based on one season

you want a proven track record

Insert any producer with 5+ years at an internationally acclaimed (spotlight) level against any producer with 2 years in the spotlight.

now, who had the exact same sound (methods, style ect) as they did when they had thier first hit?

Versatility equates to longevity.

I'm not at all saying that D4L CANT make different music, I'm just saying that thier sound was built on thier novelty and I see that as a pigeon-hole.

Who knows what the next record will sound like, just that, good or bad; "laffy taffy" will be who they are for years to come. and its the "masses" you speak so fondly of who will have to decide if they still want to eat it

 

[maxxsteel7]

I'll Keep It Short And To The Point....
Bottom Line I Don't Care What You Compose Or Play.
You Are ------not!----- A Hiphop Producer If You Don't Sample Period.synths,live Musicians Whatever You Wanna Do Is All Good But,if You Don't Sample You're Just Pop,etc.

 

[ALIASTrP]

I'll Keep It Short And To The Point....
Bottom Line I Don't Care What You Compose Or Play.
You Are ------not!----- A Hiphop Producer If You Don't Sample Period.synths,live Musicians Whatever You Wanna Do Is All Good But,if You Don't Sample You're Just Pop,etc.

unless u use actual live instruments u are sampling bottom line.

 

[Lokness42]

I'll Keep It Short And To The Point....
Bottom Line I Don't Care What You Compose Or Play.
You Are ------not!----- A Hiphop Producer If You Don't Sample Period.synths,live Musicians Whatever You Wanna Do Is All Good But,if You Don't Sample You're Just Pop,etc.

so the roots are pop, and justin timberlake must be hip-hop.
i'ma get str8 to the point. the sounds in workstations are samples of real instruments, some are synthed, but hey they come like that.(not like synths are loaded up with samples of say some marvin gaye) also the sounds in synths are called voices, where as a sample is just that a sample.(hince if you ever read a manual for a synth or workstation you'd know they have voice banks) but the sampling i'm talking about is when u take even one note from somebody, you are sampling someone elses work.


so learn the difference my motif has it's stock voices i can sample and add new sounds
oh and i'm not sampling if they are already stock, i am only sampling when i record new sounds into my motif to use as voices.

 

[Xabiton]

if You Don't Sample You're Just Pop,etc.

ignorance. that takes away from so many dope musicians who make great hip hop and have over the years simply because they dont take from other peoples songs. Im guessing next your going to say that only 90s New York hip hop is the only true hip hop kuz the south has always played their synths and the west has been playing synths for years also the eastcoast is finally catching on to what everyone else has been doing for years.

Odd, we went from long term investments to opinions again.

you wouldnt draft a ball player straight outta highschool for one good season.

you want a proven track record

you wouldnt pick a race driver to invest in based on one season

you want a proven track record

Insert any producer with 5+ years at an internationally acclaimed (spotlight) level against any producer with 2 years in the spotlight.

now, who had the exact same sound (methods, style ect) as they did when they had thier first hit?

Versatility equates to longevity.

I'm not at all saying that D4L CANT make different music, I'm just saying that thier sound was built on thier novelty and I see that as a pigeon-hole.

Who knows what the next record will sound like, just that, good or bad; "laffy taffy" will be who they are for years to come. and its the "masses" you speak so fondly of who will have to decide if they still want to eat it

nothing i have stated is an opinion of my own but instead observations of what i have seen. i personally like to take chances so all of this about who u would take doesnt work much for me because i look at potential of what u could be and not what u r now. Thats my personal opinion nothing else states was its simply obsevation.

unless u use actual live instruments u are sampling bottom line.

synths dont contain any sound data. its all tones that are molded into something else.