Do you think producers who use loops are lazy?

  • Thread starter Thread starter odinnshred
  • Start date Start date
61Key said:
I don't remeber seeing it in this thread, but what kinds of construction kit loops brands do you guys use anyways, just curious.

the only one i know i big fish brand
Click to expand...

ACID
Zero G
Big Fish Audio
Loopmasters
Spectrasonics
Platinum Loops
M-Audio
Apple Jam Packs
Stuff that comes stock with SONAR, Reason, Pro Tools

I have tons of CDs accumulated over the years. Mainly for vocals, realistic percusion elements, background SFX and realistic guitar licks. I use them to add realism to from scratch productions that are contained to just my computer. Usually just subtle sounds in passing of the composition. But I'm not gonna knock someone who uses them in the forefront of their production, that would make me a hypocrite.
 
Last edited:
goodlooking out. I'm gonna google these names Right now.
I have always had mixed feeling about loops and such, but I admit, after reading thru this thread I am going thru alot of my old loops and I like them.

I'ma look into zero G first, that name sounds familiar.

---------- Post added at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

I'm just havin fun with it, I know I can mangle loops and chop em and everything, i won't feel one bit guilty.
Im starting to realize, I shouldent care as long as the beat is hot, and its not like I cant mangle them and chop the hell out of them.

alittle inspiration here, im runnin with it.
 
odinnshred said:
I hate seeing tutorials where producers say stuff like "now we'll load this drum loop we got from primeloops". Do you think that producers should be encouraging others to use loops, rather than create and sample sounds by themselves? Does it matter either way if the end result is decent?

Discuss!
Click to expand...

Those videos are for INSTRUCTION, TUTORIAL, as you said yourself. They are teaching people the overall mechanics of making a beat, the last thing you need to worry about is sampling sounds. You should be using the same sounds over and over, and see what you can do with them, see how many different beats you can make off the same sounds. The point is learning the software and the process of beat creation...
 
jackBlack said:
You should be using the same sounds over and over, and see what you can do with them
Click to expand...

I "should be" doing whatever the hell I want. If there's one thing I learned from this thread it's that there are different ways of making good music. Some producers/composers rely on the work of others more than other producers/composers.

Those tutorials may be DAW based or creativity based. For creativity based I just think that encouraging the use of loops is counter-productive. I've said this a million times (maybe like, 15) in this thread, so I don't want people to think that I haven't taken in their points of view as well.

Sometimes I use the same percussion sound for example in more than one song. That's because I feel it fits the song. Sometimes I will tweak it to make it a different sound. More often than not though I will make a different sound where the original recording is closest to the sound I really want. That's just my method though. Just don't tell people what they "should be" doing because that creates a very narrow-minded world of art.
 
I don't see someone using loops as a negative thing, unless they are using them purely because they can't be bothered making a drum track. Starting with a drum loop can inspire and shape an unreal track.
 
many classics used the same drum loop the funky drummer break is the most sample drum loop in history
 
odinnshred said:
I "should be" doing whatever the hell I want. If there's one thing I learned from this thread it's that there are different ways of making good music. Some producers/composers rely on the work of others more than other producers/composers.

Those tutorials may be DAW based or creativity based. For creativity based I just think that encouraging the use of loops is counter-productive. I've said this a million times (maybe like, 15) in this thread, so I don't want people to think that I haven't taken in their points of view as well.

Sometimes I use the same percussion sound for example in more than one song. That's because I feel it fits the song. Sometimes I will tweak it to make it a different sound. More often than not though I will make a different sound where the original recording is closest to the sound I really want. That's just my method though. Just don't tell people what they "should be" doing because that creates a very narrow-minded world of art.
Click to expand...

You're a moron, you come asking for advice then tell everyone you'll be doing whatever the hell you want? Good, go do what you want, and then you'll realize why your beats are still trash, you have $500 in sounds and are garbage. I don't care what you do to tweak a sound, if you are watching tutorial on DAW, YOU ARE AN AMATEUR AND DON'T KNOW SHIT! So by all means, carry on soldier...
 
jackBlack said:
You're a moron, you come asking for advice then tell everyone you'll be doing whatever the hell you want? Good, go do what you want, and then you'll realize why your beats are still trash, you have $500 in sounds and are garbage. I don't care what you do to tweak a sound, if you are watching tutorial on DAW, YOU ARE AN AMATEUR AND DON'T KNOW SHIT! So by all means, carry on soldier...
Click to expand...

1) Thinking that I was asking for advice is the moronic thing. Did you even read my first post? I was asking other people's opinions, cos that's the only way you'll learn em. Humans are dishonest creatures, and their actions and works rarely show their true colours.

2) "you have $500 in sounds and are garbage". This doesn't make any sense. If you don't make sense, people won't take your argument seriously and you'll just look like a fool. It seems like you're judging my music, which you haven't heard, which means you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. I record most of the sounds I use myself. I tweak them as I see fit. So what?

3) "your beats are still trash". You don't know my music, c*nt.

3) "I don't care what you do to tweak a sound, if you are watching tutorial on DAW, YOU ARE AN AMATEUR AND DON'T KNOW SHIT!". I wouldn't say it like such a c*nt, but I kinda agree. I never said I need tutorials, I just said I dislike the ones that encourage using shortcuts. You think boxers actually get a skipping rope out and jump around in the middle of a fight? No, the skipping rope is important for training and building the skills and instincts you may need when putting practice to a real life situation. I did need tutorials in the past, as many people probably did. I'm so jealous of you being perfect as soon as you were born. You're amazing. Everyone loves you ;)
 
odinnshred said:
1) Thinking that I was asking for advice is the moronic thing. Did you even read my first post? I was asking other people's opinions, cos that's the only way you'll learn em. Humans are dishonest creatures, and their actions and works rarely show their true colours.

2) "you have $500 in sounds and are garbage". This doesn't make any sense. If you don't make sense, people won't take your argument seriously and you'll just look like a fool. It seems like you're judging my music, which you haven't heard, which means you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. I record most of the sounds I use myself. I tweak them as I see fit. So what?

3) "your beats are still trash". You don't know my music, c*nt.

3) "I don't care what you do to tweak a sound, if you are watching tutorial on DAW, YOU ARE AN AMATEUR AND DON'T KNOW SHIT!". I wouldn't say it like such a c*nt, but I kinda agree. I never said I need tutorials, I just said I dislike the ones that encourage using shortcuts. You think boxers actually get a skipping rope out and jump around in the middle of a fight? No, the skipping rope is important for training and building the skills and instincts you may need when putting practice to a real life situation. I did need tutorials in the past, as many people probably did. I'm so jealous of you being perfect as soon as you were born. You're amazing. Everyone loves you ;)
Click to expand...

What a dumb analogy, of course I read your first post you dumbass I quoted it. Asking for advice on something and asking for opinions on something, are you really trying to draw a distinction? Why the hell are you whining about tutorial videos for DAW? They use loops because IT IS A TUTORIAL! Why don't you get that? I know you're beats are trash because you are the type of moron who critiques tutorial videos for people who are new to DAW, as being a "shortcut". No shit it is a shortcut, they are LEARNING. Jesus, go read a book.
 
jackBlack said:
What a dumb analogy, of course I read your first post you dumbass I quoted it. Asking for advice on something and asking for opinions on something, are you really trying to draw a distinction? Why the hell are you whining about tutorial videos for DAW? They use loops because IT IS A TUTORIAL! Why don't you get that? I know you're beats are trash because you are the type of moron who critiques tutorial videos for people who are new to DAW, as being a "shortcut". No shit it is a shortcut, they are LEARNING. Jesus, go read a book.
Click to expand...

The 'shortcuts' I'm talking about are loops. Whether or not they are useful in real life situations (this thread has taught me that they can be), they are definitely shortcuts when trying to learn about making music. The use of loops is the shortcut I'm criticising, not the tutorials. I used to use tutorials. Remember when I said "I did need tutorials in the past, as many people probably did". Yeah. I said that. You even quoted it.

Addressing honest concerns:

1) "Asking for advice on something and asking for opinions on something, are you really trying to draw a distinction?" If you can't see the distinction, I'll try to draw it. I'm just curious on how everyone else views the use of loops. That's it. Just being curious. It's not going to change the way I work. I just want to get an idea of how many people are like me, and how many people are not.

2) "Why the hell are you whining about tutorial videos for DAW?" I'm not. I'm "whining" about tutorials that claim to help producers in a creative way, then say "hey, use a loop or two!". I guess the only reason that I was "whining" is that I didn't have a full schedule the day I made this thread. I was curious (To quote myself, "I'm just curious on how everyone else views the use of loops. That's it. Just being curious.").

3) "Jesus, go read a book." Which book would you recommend? Not asking advice, just being curious (this time curious means I'm being polite, but I don't really care).
 
If you want to put a value on old technology , yes its' cheating , but the point of advancement is to make things easier. This argument is always a headache for music , "what isn't fair" or requires "less talent" , individuals seem to get mad when others find unique ways of producing solid music without the headache another went though , somewhat a cry for fairness. I dont find them lazy , innovative to sugarcoat it.

At the end of the day nobody should care for the complexity of the structure (the music) , because that isn't what makes it good , its' the end product. You can be as complex , and technical as you want , but if you produce shitty music , non - looped, original scores , w/e , it doesn't matter how long it took you to pile crap. And vice versa , if you can maximize quality and minimize complexity , you've won in terms of efficient work ethnic.
 
jackBlack said:
Are you seriously wondering why someone who is making a tutorial for beginners would leave out sampling? It is too much to discuss, too much to talk about, and too much for someone new to DAW.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry for being rude before, this is a very good point I haven't thought about before. For sure you can't "teach someone the entire process of making music in a 15 minute video", but you can at least encourage a creative approach to the arrangement of sounds (i.e, using kits), not just saying "This genre is 'X', get an 'X' loop and load it into the field. Job done." There's a difference between being a beginner and being a simpleton. Online tutors could also do a series of 15 minute videos to go into greater depth of what you can do creatively. This means a potentially infinite amount of information can be conveyed. It just depends on the determination of the learner (and the trust in the tutor, though). Not sure why I'm trying to make this point. I'm hoping to make tutorials sometime within the next year so I'll just see if I can put my money where my mouth is.

Also, (this bit); "there isn't a distinction because the advice someone gives you is based on their opinion." Perhaps, but an opinion doesn't need to carry advice. You can't get advice without an opinion, but you can hear someone's opinion without them trying to convert you to their way of thinking.
 
jackBlack said:
Each one is giving you the same choice to make, will you or won't you use what you've just been told?
Click to expand...

Very good point. I didn't consider that you can ask for advice and ignore it. And I've done so more than a few times.

Tutorials coming soon...ish...maybe. Their success is another problem to overcome though. Making them easy to understand but more helpful than average will be a challenge. Also advertising tricks etc etc etc. 'Advanced' tutorials are so inaccessible, so hopefully I can change this.
 
im strongly against using a pre-produced drum or beat loop, as it is the foundation of the song


I sometimes use hi hat or weird percussive loops and edit them heavily to add to the flow of the beat or whatever, I guess that's cool, but sampling actual beats.. no thanks
 
Last edited:
I personally wouldn't use other people's loops, but that's because I'm a control freak with my music. I think it's so hard to put together a really, truly grooving track that using other people's loops won't really get you there all by itself (unless you do something so blatantly weak like when the Funky Bunch sampled an almost entire Velvet Underground song). I think, though, that using other people's samples may detract from the personal qualities of one's work, as the most unique aspect of music to me is groove. If you take another person's grooves as your own, it's not quite as unique as just making your own. It doesn't make you less of an artist, though.
 
Audiotwist said:
im strongly against using a pre-produced drum or beat loop, as it is the foundation of the song

Premade melodic loops are wack for sure, old school drum loops that where sampled are fine though. Nothing wrong with using drum loops in my opinion and chop them up and play them back or layer different dru loops and mix them to create your own sound is cool with me too.

It's buying contruction kits and putting them together that's garbage.

Sampling from actual records though and creating flips as an art, IMO is the most challenging way of making a beat.

I sample and compose and composing is a lot easier IMO, you have the direction when composing, but with the sample, you don't have full control to an extent.


Click to expand...
 
^^^Royalty free loops packaged by companies like Big Fish, Acid, Apple Loops, Zero-G, ect.

See, everyone has their own brand of morality on the subject. TDOT beleives using these is lame, but chopping sounds from someone else's recording you ran across isn't because you "found" that sound. So in his mind the "laziness" comes in with how you've accumulated your loops.

Interesting.

I realize I just make music from a different angle everytime I sit down. Sometimes as a keyboardist on someone else's track, sometimes as a recording engineer, sometimes as a sample based producer, sometimes as a compositional producer...so it just hit me...everyone's just defending what they do and opposing everything else...I just do it all. Lol.

Not saying there's anything wrong with sticking to what you're epic at and being the most epic at it...but when you're Not doing the thing you critique, do you ever think...maybe that's why you critique it?
 
I don't care what anyone uses to make their music, just make the music and let all that other sh!t go. The problem nowadays is everyone trying to listen with "producer" ears, too concerned with what's behind the curtain and disappointing themselves in the process. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top