chi town kid beatn to death

i have to disagree with f or deaf about the murderers being the victims . its silly to blame his "neighborhood" since everyone else that lives there isnt murdering random strangers . they did it because they are worthless pieces of **** that thought they would be cool to do something like that. Rap surely didnt help though but you cant help but notice the millions of people that listen to rap and live in hoods that will never murder someone .
 
California said:
the murderers being the victims
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all i am saying is that to fix societal issues, you must start @ the "root" of the problem.

the question is, WHAT ARE THE MAIN FACTORS THAT CAUSE THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR AND HOW DO WE BEGIN TO REMEDY THEM?

but we also have to look @ who NOT FIXING THE "PROBLEM" benefits...
 
Yeah it was sad that kid died but at the end of the day if he wasnt an honor student they news wouldnt give a fucc about it cause when the next teen gets killed they'll sweep it under the rug its kinda like how lil blk kids go missing they talk about it for 20 secs but a lil white kid they gone talk about it for weeks that situation could've ended up ten times worst wit one nigga and a choppa people should be more concerned wit protecting they household and making sure they kids know was up and not to get caught up and bull**** then tryin to change niggas that dont want change and happy wit tha hood
 
[F_or_DEAF] said:
all i am saying is that to fix societal issues, you must start @ the "root" of the problem.

the question is, WHAT ARE THE MAIN FACTORS THAT CAUSE THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR AND HOW DO WE BEGIN TO REMEDY THEM?

but we also have to look @ who NOT FIXING THE "PROBLEM" benefits...
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I sir have to agree wholeheartedly with this. Jail and death sentence is not the answer to the ROOT of the problem, it's only a patch that removes that particular instance from society after the damage has been done. The question is, how do we prevent the mindset of people from causing mindless killing from happening? That's a deeper issue that I think cuts right down to the root of a LOT of problems that we experience.

Kudos for recognizing it F or Deaf:cheers:
 
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The other question is, how in the world can you change the root of the problem. Its pretty effin difficult to change an entire group of people's mindset.
 
phazer_effect said:
Jail and death sentence is not the answer
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exactly...

1: the societal problems still remain, even after the "criminals" have been incarcerated.

2: if jail "worked", those kids would have never even been out there in the first place.

OTHER FACTORS missing in those kids lives is what causes shyt like that to happen...

3: if cops and jails were the SOLUTION, THEN WE SHOULD BE BLAMING COPS AND JAILS FOR FAILING...

[/rant]
 
Isk2009 said:
The other question is, how in the world can you change the root of the problem. Its pretty effin difficult to change an entire group of people's mindset.
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I agree, I don't see that happening anytime soon, because the majority of people aren't willing to change aspects of their current lifestyle and open their mind up more. So like Modus Operandi said earlier, don't be so surprised to see these kinds of things happen...it IS pretty hyprocritical, and I agree with him again on that. Whether you know how to disregard it as fairy tale or not, you're still entertaining your mind with it...so.

My heart does go out to the kid and his family though, just like many others who experience similar fates.
 
Also, more important than people's lifestyles...is this corrupt system they live in...but I we all know about that and can discuss it for days.
 
[F_or_DEAF] said:
exactly...

1: the societal problems still remain, even after the "criminals" have been incarcerated.

2: if jail "worked", those kids would have never even been out there in the first place.

OTHER FACTORS missing in those kids lives is what causes shyt like that to happen...

3: if cops and jails were the SOLUTION, THEN WE SHOULD BE BLAMING COPS AND JAILS FOR FAILING...

[/rant]
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too bad that even if you were right, there is no viable way to implement a fix that would solve said roots. There is no way to force a parent to teach his kids how to act , or how long to be out doors, adn they cant make it illegal to be a gang member , hang out with gang members etc, because people will bi*** about it being a free country etc . Also, when a gang member gets killed by another gang member, its not on the news (although they do often show gang on gang violence on the news too) because its not news at all. its expected behavior .and people shouldnt spend billions of dollars for "programs" for people just because they are stupid and had stupid parents . but when their stupid ways cross over and start affecting non-stupid people that never agreed to the terms of service of the streets by joining a gang and being involved in that kind of activity, then it becomes a problem for the country in general . I have many theories as to how this can be combated , but what are your theories ? what do you propose be done to the murderers instead of being put in jail ?
 
[F_or_DEAF] said:
and that's the kicker...

EVERYBODY see's and blames the INDIVIDUALS...but NOBODY see's and blames the SYSTEM...
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people blame the individuals because ultimately, everything they do is their own choice. even if someone is more "swayed" towards a certain behavior, it would still be their choice ultimately to do something or not . if in individuals cant get blamed, then you cant blame the system either, since it is made up of individuals
 
let's hear it for:

image.php


applause.gif
 
what , you didnt like the logic implemented ? am i not right that ultimately it was their own choice ? and that if you cant blame individuals, then you cant blame society or systems neither since they are composed of individuals ? that pic doesnt make sense at all. it just looks like you couldnt think of something to rebut with , but im sure this has bought you enough time to come up with something good so i look forward to hearing your intelligent rebuttal so this productive conversation may continue
 
[F_or_DEAF] said:
first of all, i ain't DEBATING w/ u...thus no REBUTTAL.

and even if i was "debating", why the hell would i choose YOU to debate w/?

:confused:
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because i am the only one to debate since everyone else is agreeing with you or ignoring you , also, if you dont want to debate, then dont reply to my posts. its pretty simple when you think about it . So just ignore me, and ill keep rebutting everything you say that doesnt make sense and we both win
 
For the person who brought up white:

In my area of the U.S., here is a white version of foolishness that hasn't resulted in death yet. A link to the article, and a copy of the comment from a relative. Sad, ig'nant, etc.




http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/62339227.html


For those of you who want to make comments about this case please make sure you get your facts straight. Chris is my brother-in-law and my roommate as is John. This house the Molotov is the house of fellow YSG gang members. This gang is known for terrorizing people in Kenmore. Late July these "little boys" decided to shoot off rounds at my house with my 3 small children in the house. The father, the person who's house this fire started at, is the head of this gang and thinks it's just cool to give his teenage child a gun to terrorize people with. The end of July Chris got jumped in my front yard by 20 of these punks who knocked him unconscious with a club and stomped him there while the whole neighborhood watched. These kids are out on bond right now so you can see what summit county is really doing to help us. What Chris did was wrong and I know he is not perfect, far from it, but he retaliated the only way he knew how. As for John, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was driving the vehicle and did not know what Chris was going to do. And also btw, John's dv charge was by his pill popping mom who made up a story at the hospital to get more pills. He was living at my house when he supposedly beat her up. If anyone has anymore questions feel free to ask. That is the whole story and ABJ just wrote it this way to make them look bad.
 
Does anybody know why people joing gangs? I think F or Deaf is getting at that.
When a need is removed or unaccessable to someone, that need WILL BE MET by something else. It is human nature to fill the void. If a parent is not a part of a childs life, that child will find a person to fill that spot. Many times it's an elder gang member, religious leader, or whoever stumbles upon them in while they are in that vulnerable state.
There is no easy way to resolve this and it will continue. It may change forms, stop one gang in this town etc., but it is human nature and people will continue. There are many forms of gangs or antisocial groups if you will. As long as people keep getting a raw deal they will develop antisocial personality disorders and join antisocial groups.
Does this excuse their behavior. NO.
But more jails and executions will only result in a police state. They don't work. If more jails worked we'd be reaping the benefits now. Look at the statistics on crime.
A cop that I know gave this example, "Joe Blow goes in a petty criminal, comes out a hardened more criminally educated and pissed off. He is now much more dangerous."
It's a seriously flawed system.
This was a ***** thing that happened. And they should be punished but while we're talking about it we can and should address why this is happening.
I really apreciated the story that was posted about actually being such a thug. We need to start listening to people that lived it to know what it's like.
I know where I came from, I know my background and my values. I will never know or truly understand someone elses background or values. The best I can do is listen and try to understand what the world is like for them. If I start to lay down my own values and beliefs on others then I will never get to the root of the problem. We need to realize that there are no random acts. All actions are done with a percieved benefit to the person doing them. Knowing who people are will lead us in the direction of knowing why they act the way they do.

Ugly
 
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