Why aren't you making your beats like this??

[j.troup]

So youre saying 2 or 3 changes in melody like a musical or something? Wouldn't that be totally chaos to write a flow to that?

Just because you change the order that you played the notes in a given chord, doesn't mean that the chord changed.


For instance...


C Major = C - E - G.


If you play it E-G-C, it's still a C Major progression. If you play it G-E-C, it's still a C major progression.






The beat that I did here....




Verse (12 bars)

Bmin
A
F#min7
GMaj

Pre-Hook (4 bars)

Em
F#m7
G
A

Hook/Post Hook (20 bars)

Bmin
A
F#min7
GMaj



Then the Verse / Pre-Hook / Hook / Post Hook progression repeats...



Then the bridge takes entirely different chord progression, as bridges generally do...


Bridge


Em
F#m7
Bm
A


Em
F#m7
G
A




See what i'm saying? It's the pre-hook and the bridge that make it different. Typical rap just repeats the verse chord progression over and over and over again, never changing that progression.

Putting a different melody over the same progression doesn't mean that the progression changed.


Any more than speeding up the high hats in a track changes the tempo.




An example of what you did is this beat that I did here....





It just keep repeating the same chord progression, through the verse, the hook, everything. It just loops the same progression, no matter what the melody on top may be doing (like on the hook, and on the post hook), or no matter how long i hold out the guitar strums...


It just keep going...


F major
D minor
Bb Major
C Major
F Major

 

[Just Clauz]

Ok I get it now, you're saying that I change the melody, but the chords are still the same right?

I checked my beat and noticed what you told me. Man, I'm going to experiment with this some time!

 

[JGrisly]

I'm serious. How did it change? Changing the melody sequence doesn't necessarily change the chord structure.

The bass guitar/synth progression changed twice. I intentionally kept the bass familiar to help tie it together.
The guitar progression changed thrice(super-imposition).
Also the vamp that comes in after the middle break enforces an entirely different tonality with a note borrowed from the natural keys relative scale.
I never changed melodies, theres but one in the entire song(instrument wise).

C Major = C - E - G.


If you play it E-G-C, it's still a C Major progression. If you play it G-E-C, it's still a C major progression.

Incorrect.
C is still the key center, yes, but the progression has switched modes. E would be phrygian and G would be Mixolydian.
It seems that you're suggesting that unless the key changes that the progression has not changed? Thats simply not true.

 

[j.troup]

The bass guitar/synth progression changed twice. I intentionally kept the bass familiar to help tie it together.
The guitar progression changed thrice(super-imposition).
Also the vamp that comes in after the middle break enforces an entirely different tonality with a note borrowed from the natural keys relative scale.
I never changed melodies, theres but one in the entire song(instrument wise).



Incorrect.
C is still the key center, yes, but the progression has switched modes. E would be phrygian and G would be Mixolydian.
It seems that you're suggesting that unless the key changes that the progression has not changed? Thats simply not true.

That's not at all what i'm saying. CEG, no matter how you invert it, is still a C chord.


But i digress. You did it. Let's go with that.

 

[JGrisly]

That's not at all what i'm saying. CEG, no matter how you invert it, is still a C chord.

Yes, if we are talking notes, They are all inversions of the same chord.
However, each inversion could fulfill a different purpose and will sound slightly different(depending on how its played).
But, thats not what you said-

If you play it E-G-C, it's still a C Major progression. If you play it G-E-C, it's still a C major progression.

Which is incorrect. It would be iii-V-I (E-G-C) and V-iii-I(G-E-C). Not the same progression (though highly similar).

You did it. Let's go with that.

Ah, patronage.
Thanks, I guess...

 

[bandcoach]

Just because you change the order that you played the notes in a given chord, doesn't mean that the chord changed.

For instance...

C Major = C - E - G.

If you play it E-G-C, it's still a C Major progression. If you play it G-E-C, it's still a C major progression.

as can be seen if we read the first line, j.troup intended the context of an individual chord; that he misused the word progression is obvious , but nothing to get hung up about: we are capable of reading it and substituting the word chord for progression (which in this context would indicate a directed sequence of chords anyway)

j.troup is right about his statement on changing the sequence of the chord tones; you are right about changing tonality/modality: it's a non-starter

I'll come back later and weigh in on the musical merits of maintaining a progression vs introducing variation to create interest and maintain the listeners attention

 

[HereToInspire]

This is the instrumental for my next record (pre-mix, of course). Rapper in the sig just approved it.


It has a proper pre-hook (4 bars), a post hook of 4 bars, and a bridge of 8 bars.


Gonna put a white rocker chick on the hook...just gotta find one!




If it comes out well, i think i'm going to start doing most of my rap records like this....well the ones that are actually ABOUT something. The "swag n brag" records will still be loops, and let the percussion work bring the drama.









Should have this record recorded and out by the end of Feb...if the artists finances work out.



Hey...at least she's investing in herself.

This is okay at best. Something about the piano melody that doesn't sit well. The drums also lack feeling, almost seems robotic. This would have potential, but there's no vocal melodies on this track so I can't really judge the main melody that would be on this and how the overall song would sound. Also, there are really only 2 different chord progressions I can hear (other than the bridge being the 3rd). The rest of the song is pretty much the same.

Hip Hop really doesn't need chord change ups simply because historically it's known more for it's groove/rhythms and beat makers were sampling small snippets of records (since samplers back then only held a small amount of memory compared to today). There are some Hip Hop songs out there that indeed use chord changes, but if not done right it would take away the grittiness/roughness essential to a lot of the music. When producing MOST other forms of mainstream music, melody is the key! Hence you have different chord progressions under the MAIN melodies. Of course your A/B and C parts will have different progressions associated with them due to the nature of the core melody sung/played with respect to these sections of the arrangement (same goes for the Hook/Mid 8).

 

[Desire Inspires]

Theory <<< Hot shit.

Just make hot shit.

Was James Brown deep in music theory? Nope. He just funked out and made classic music. There weren't many chord changes in his songs.

His classics are a foundation for hip-hop.

 

[j.troup]

This is okay at best. Something about the piano melody that doesn't sit well. The drums also lack feeling, almost seems robotic. This would have potential, but there's no vocal melodies on this track so I can't really judge the main melody that would be on this and how the overall song would sound. Also, there are really only 2 different chord progressions I can hear (other than the bridge being the 3rd). The rest of the song is pretty much the same.

Hip Hop really doesn't need chord change ups simply because historically it's known more for it's groove/rhythms and beat makers were sampling small snippets of records (since samplers back then only held a small amount of memory compared to today). There are some Hip Hop songs out there that indeed use chord changes, but if not done right it would take away the grittiness/roughness essential to a lot of the music. When producing MOST other forms of mainstream music, melody is the key! Hence you have different chord progressions under the MAIN melodies. Of course your A/B and C parts will have different progressions associated with them due to the nature of the core melody sung/played with respect to these sections of the arrangement (same goes for the Hook/Mid 8).

You're right. It is okay at best. It's not finished, nor mixed, and I don't try to make SPECTACULAR beats. My goal is to make SPECTACULAR RECORDS.


The vocals aren't being laid for another few weeks.


And there are 3 different chord progressions...the verses, the pre-hook, and then the bridge. But my point was, it's more than the usual 1 repeating chord progression in hip hop.




And the historical aspect is exactly my point. It's ALWAYS been that way. Why does it have to REMAIN that way? Why can't it change??


A simple progression change adds so much more to the songs of non-hip hop genres, so why can't that same impact be added to a hip hop song??



All this "historical" talk seems like an excuse for hip hop people not knowing (and not learning) music.




Like Quincy Jones once told me, Melody is King.

 

[infradead]

blah 12TET

nice read though

 

[HereToInspire]

You're right. It is okay at best. It's not finished, nor mixed, and I don't try to make SPECTACULAR beats. My goal is to make SPECTACULAR RECORDS.


The vocals aren't being laid for another few weeks.


And there are 3 different chord progressions...the verses, the pre-hook, and then the bridge. But my point was, it's more than the usual 1 repeating chord progression in hip hop.




And the historical aspect is exactly my point. It's ALWAYS been that way. Why does it have to REMAIN that way? Why can't it change??


A simple progression change adds so much more to the songs of non-hip hop genres, so why can't that same impact be added to a hip hop song??



All this "historical" talk seems like an excuse for hip hop people not knowing (and not learning) music.




Like Quincy Jones once told me, Melody is King.

Of course the end goal is to produce GREAT RECORDS (if you're indeed a Record Producer) and I'd like to hear the end product of this to see how the record turns out.

About the "history talk", I understand both sides of the argument. One side is keeping the original essence of hip hop (melodic minimalism looped over a drum loop), the other is expanding what's there when it comes to mainstream. Not sure if you've heard it, but Drake's newest album has a handful of songs I believe that changes the progressions either halfway or near the end, although they don't not in standard song format (ie. Intro, Verse, Chorus, Post Chorus, etc).

 

[Ali'i]

 

[BiggRome 2.0]

I think because with the new drugs... nobody can care... yes, nobody CAN CARE...

MUSTARD ON THE BEAT! (and I like this)

... the world is getting dumber musically and more melodic lyrically...

Don't listen...