What the MV-8800 has that the MPC 5K doesn't

[jahrome]

Actually the MV has 16 instruments real multisampled patches and 32 banks(512 pads) of phrases. In addition to the MV having 6 banks not for . Link that with Roland nondestructive sample structure and 5000 is playing catch up. The 5000 is no winner in this respect and the MV has the memory to these features useful.

Remember the 5000 sampler is restricted to phrases. the MV can instruments from phrases.

The MV can use Play+Rec without freezing.
Check the latest bug found on your 5000. I'm sure you're aware of his.

In every patch the MV copy as many times as the user wants, give the samples individual setting including start/end/loop points , env.adsr , loop types etc. and never use additional memory.

BTW - the MV automatically sets upo the assignment of imported patches and the user has the ability to send it wher they if they choose. It's called flexibility and control.

Then you have to remeber that MPC is hands down the best hardware MIDI sequencers ever made. MIDI your Fantom XR, Motif ES rack, M3 rack, and your Moog Voyager (or your favorite MIDI gear) and you have your ultimate music production set-up. 64 channels of MIDI outs.


64 channels is indeed pure show and I have yet to anyone make use of it. Most musicians don't even use 16 channels let alone 64. If you have example i'd like to see it.

Yes, I can see how having 64 channels of external MIDI control is pure show when the MV doesn't have it. In fact, this has been an MPC feature for over 20 years. You want to talk pure show? 512 pads and sounds isn't pue show? I have yet to here anyone make use of those. Are you now excepting my challenge to show some music because I am ready. Who do you want to host this battle?

The MPC 5000 allows you to assign (not copy) the same sample to every pad. You can non-destructively change volume, pitch, LFO, ADSR filter and amp envelopes, etc. You can even non-destructively change the samples start time by velocity. None of this uses additional memory.

The MPC 5000 has 4 banks which holds 512 samples. Isn't that enough or do I need Akai to add two more banks with 128 more sounds? My MPC 5000 isn't restricted to phrases. Do you want to hear my latest example? I was going to wait but will let you listen to it if you like.

As far as bugs, I created the threads. I know exactly what you get when you buy an MPC 5K. There are bugs in its current OS. You are fully aware of my threads/posts. But not every bug is encountered by everyone. In fact, most of those bugs posted on the site I haven't encountered. This is not an excuse. Akai has corrected the problems and will release an OS update. This is no different than what Roland has done. But I don't believe (at least I hope) Akai doesn't release a MPC 5500 with a color screen and give it a new OS exclusive to that unit like Roland did with the MV-8800 and MV-8000. And besides, your MV has its own problems to address. It still has at least one major bug and Roland is going to discontinue it. It suks to be an MV-8800 user if you expect anything more from Roland.

And my last point...you say most musicians don't use more than 16 channels? You are obviously not a musician and you certainly don't know any musicians. Even my young daughter quickly uses up 16 channels.

Sorry my man....but the case you are building for the MV is falling apart. This is what you get for taking on a product that is being discontinued. That is why I tell people to wait until Namm before they buy one. The prices of MVs will drop severl hundred dollars.

Why dont yall have a beat battle and settle it, or at least post some music or videos?

I called him out numerous times...he keeps ducking me. I am ready to knuckle up anytime....with music that is...

 

[Bananasass]

And besides, your MV has its own problems to address. It still has at least one major bug and Roland is going to discontinue it. It suks to be an MV-8800 user if you expect anything more from Roland.

Man, you're pretty desperate when it comes to the bugs on your machine vs. those on the MV... The MV 8800 really does not really have any bugs anymore.

As said, if you can't fix long audio samples going out of sync, then you shouldn't even own a MV in the first place. It's as easy as one click and another one. One should only slice when needed and frankly it's not always necessary.

This is what you get for taking on a product that is being discontinued.

Regardless from the upcoming NAMM, the MV8800 probably won't be discontinued anytime soon. Contrary to what you think, it's actually selling quite well at the moment.

It would simply be strange if Roland would decide to discontinue it now.

 

[jahrome]

Man, you're pretty desperate when it comes to the bugs on your machine vs. those on the MV... The MV 8800 really does not really have any bugs anymore.

As said, if you can't fix long audio samples going out of sync, then you shouldn't even own a MV in the first place. It's as easy as one click and another one. One should only slice when needed and frankly it's not always necessary.



Regardless from the upcoming NAMM, the MV8800 probably won't be discontinued anytime soon. Contrary to what you think, it's actually selling quite well at the moment.

It would simply be strange if Roland would decide to discontinue it now.

1. The MV has been around for..what...4-5 years approx. It should not have any bugs. It has received several updates over these years. Any product should be flawless after this long period of time. Roland has been building and working on this OS for at least 7-8 years.

2. Yes, we have heard the work around. It is a bug. Long audio tracks shouldn't go out of sync. MPCs do not do this no matter how you try to down play this. This is mos def a feature that the MV has that no MPC has. Comgrats.

3. I live in Japan, where Roland is based. None of the local stores in Akihabara (Japan's largest electronic district) have the MV in stock. The expansion boards for the MV have just been discontinued. Do the math. It wouldn't be strange if they discontinue it now. They are working on repackaging it as another product. You heard it from me first..perhaps.

4. Do you know what won't be discontinued at Namm? Further improvements to MPCs. You saw my list of features that the MP has that the MV doesn't. I speculate that the list will grow even larger. The list of features that the MV has that the MP doesn't have...will get shorter. What do you think the net gain will be? I am guessing about 2-3 dozen features....

 

[Bananasass]

1. The MV has been around for..what...4-5 years approx. It should not have any bugs. It has received several updates over these years. Any product should be flawless after this long period of time. Roland has been building and working on this OS for at least 7-8 years.

I'm telling you, especially compared to your MPC5k it has no bugs. It's why Roland hasn't released a new OS.

The going out of sync of LONG audio issue is hardly what I would call a bug actually, it is more something that has to do with the way the MV handles all this. I never said the device is perfect, but the work-around is.

MPCs do not do this no matter how you try to down play this.

Yeah, well I am not down playing anything. You are exaggerating an issue that incredibly easy to truly solve.

In fact, let's talk about the insane amount of bugs the MPC5k had at launch and still has. The MV had much less bugs at launch. My first MPC5k did not even boot correctly, a straight insult that Akai even decided to launch the 5k like that.

3. I live in Japan, where Roland is based. None of the local stores in Akihabara (Japan's largest electronic district) have the MV in stock.

First of, so what? In case you haven't noticed, Japan's economy is in even more trouble than the US is. It might explain that or it might not.

Regardless, it's all the same, a lot of stores I tend to do business with currently do not have the MPC5k in stock either. It's often faster to order online these days.

It's not that I do not believe you, as I haven't been there for a while, but I am sure I've seen the MV on display in some stores in Akihabara not that long ago.

Do you know what won't be discontinued at Namm? Further improvements to MPCs.

Haha, right. In reality you're basically just another one of those pathetic fan boys.

It wouldn't even make sense to argue about how Akai can't ditch the 5k this soon even if they would want to, as they totally would lose face. It's really still going downhill with Akai and their mpc '3500' is proof of that.

It wouldn't be strange if they discontinue it now. They are working on repackaging it as another product.

You know, I am so looking forward to NAMM... In case you're wondering why, chances are that Roland will come with another MC box, not the next MV. After all, they recently discontinued the mc-808, which definitely was the right thing to do. The MC did not sell very well.

 

[jahrome]

It is documented in numerous threads about the problems the MV-8000 had when it was released. It needed several updates to become solid. The same is true for the MPC5K which is not as bad as you believe it is. I use it everyday and would not trade it for an MV. I am not that much of a fan that I would continue to use a machine that doesn't work when there are other options like an MPC 4000, MPC 2500, or even an MV-8800. You can choose to believe what you want if it makes you feel better.

The MV-8800 is not in stock anyhwere in Akihabara. I have been there recently. If you have, you would know this. I haven't seen an MV in stock for 6 months. Even before the MPC 5K was released in Aug/Sep, I didm't see an MV. Most stores don't even advertise it to be sold online. The fact is that it is being discontinued. They already stopped making the expansion boards. And MV-9000 is coming or an MV-8800 with the expansion boards already installed plus an OS update to correct minor bugs. The samples going out of sync is a bug. You make it sound like a feature. This behavior is not my design.

Very soon, you will see that the "MPC 3500" is actually the MPC 5000.

Can we get back to what the MV has that the MP doesn't? You had a long time to figure this out but you haven't provided much. On the other hand, the MPC "3500" has almost 2-3 dozen functions that the MV-8800 doesn't have.

 

[jahrome]

I have to shorten the list of MV features that the MPC 5000 doesn't have with the announcement of OS 2.0 for the MPC 5000:

The MPC 5000 will get keygroup programs with 128 keygroups. Not only that, it will support S1000/3000/5000/6000, Z4/Z8, and MPC 4000 format libraries.

Additionally, the already powerful 4 buss effects processor will now be fully automated. In other words, you can record the changes you make when you adjust effect parameters.

 

[Bananasass]

The fact is that it is being discontinued. They already stopped making the expansion boards. And MV-9000 is coming or an MV-8800 with the expansion boards already installed plus an OS update to correct minor bugs.

Yeah go ahead and make stupid predictions. Or x or y or z will happen. Sure thing genius.

The samples going out of sync is a bug. You make it sound like a feature.

It's not a feature, but looking at the fix it definitely is a total non-issue. It's not even comparable to the least annoying bug on the 5k you can come up with and that's a bad thing for the MPC.

 

[jahrome]

Yeah go ahead and make stupid predictions. Or x or y or z will happen. Sure thing genius.



It's not a feature, but looking at the fix it definitely is a total non-issue. It's not even comparable to the least annoying bug on the 5k you can come up with and that's a bad thing for the MPC.

It is not a stupid prediction. It is a fact. They have already discontinued the expansion boards for the MV. Additionally, the price of the MV has dropped about $800 this year. Companies don't do this for products that are selling well.

It's cool to see you are a soldier for this machine but you shouldn't need a 'fix' for the MVs timing. MPCs are rock solid and none of them have timing issues like the MV. Like I wrote earlier, the MVs OS 1 had all sorts of issues and missing essential functions. The MPC 5000s OS 1 isn't flawless. The MV is now on OS 3.5 (still has bugs). When the MPC 5000 is on OS 3.5, youwill be shocked at its feature set. In fact, OS 2.0 is a monster and will include numerous feature requests from these forums. There are over 20 brand new features/improvements.

But anyway....this is an MV thread. So can we get back to MV specific features that the MPC 5000 doesn't have? This list is smaller now and there are no longer any significant MV 'only' features. Which is another nail in the coffin.

 

[jahrome]

Now..back to the thread...these are the features that the MV-8800 OS 3.5 has that the MPC 5000 OS 1.0 doesn't:

1. Keymap sampler
2. Audio tracks with BPM sync (realtime timestretch & pitch shift)
3. Import Akai S1000/3000 sample files and jpeg and bit map files
4. Mastering Suite/Multi-band compression
5. 3-band EQ for each part and audio track
6. 10 Band Vocoder
7. Pencil tool
8. Non-MIDI audio phrase – 16 banks
9. Split-note function which seperates parts to seperate tracks
10. A single multi-effects processor with superior sound (subjective)

Now here are the list of features that the MV-8800 OS 3.5 has the the MPC 5000 OS 2.0 doesn't:
1. Ram Audio tracks with BPM sync (realtime timestretch & pitch shift)
2. Import jpeg and bit map files
3. Mastering Suite/Multi-band compression
4. 3-band EQ for each part and audio track
5. 10 Band Vocoder
6. Pencil tool
7. Non-MIDI audio phrase – 16 banks
8. Split-note function which seperates parts to seperate tracks
9. A single multi-effects processor with superior sound (subjective)

 

[Bananasass]

We probably should have told you ages ago that the lagging of long audio samples doesn't occur anymore with the new v1.0.1 OS of the MV8800. So it's truly bug free now.

Go compare that to this: http://www.akaipro.com/stuff/conten...94a984b8d/file/akai_mpc5000_release_notes.pdf

Take special note on how the amount of bugs fluctuates like hell and the severity of some of them. In my opinion there's no way that OS 2.0 is going to be bugfree.

Anyhow, I don't think it makes sense to continue comparing the two the way you do. It's totally a subjective matter what's better or not. If it works for you, great. If it not, too bad.

 

[youngjboy]

I am one of those who likes having the 64 midi channels. As a 2500 user, all 4 of my midi outs and both midi ins are being used.

 

[jahrome]

We probably should have told you ages ago that the lagging of long audio samples doesn't occur anymore with the new v1.0.1 OS of the MV8800. So it's truly bug free now.

Go compare that to this: http://www.akaipro.com/stuff/conten...94a984b8d/file/akai_mpc5000_release_notes.pdf

Take special note on how the amount of bugs fluctuates like hell and the severity of some of them. In my opinion there's no way that OS 2.0 is going to be bugfree.

Anyhow, I don't think it makes sense to continue comparing the two the way you do. It's totally a subjective matter what's better or not. If it works for you, great. If it not, too bad.

Actually, those are all the bugs encountered by adding and changing features throughout beta testing and not the public release. Check out the MPC Forums Bug Report thread and you will see that 90% of those bugs have not been encountered by users.

Also, you are incorrect about the MV and its long audio tracks going out of sync. Roland product specialist confirmed that this problem still exists..and even if it didn't....I would not compare the MVs Ram-based audio tracks with the 5Ks 8 tracks of 23 bit hard disk recording.

OS2.0 is out for the MPC 5000 and it completely destroys the MV. It is not subjective. I am matching function per function. I anticipate some users finding some bugs (I am trying myself). But with this next level OS....I feel confident Akai will fix any issues that arise.

 

[moyphee]

MPC 5000 has audio tracks as well as 8 track streaming direct to disk recording. It doesn't have an EQ per track, but it does have a seperate filter on each, which to me is more useful. I don't want to start a debate or anything, which this thread reeks of flamewar fodder, so that's all I'll say.

Continuous Tracks are not the same as a linear Audio Track recorded to RAM or HD.

Actually, those are all the bugs encountered by adding and changing features throughout beta testing and not the public release.

Those were encountered by users reporting them to Akai and being confirmed.

5Ks 8 tracks of 23 bit hard disk recording.
No part of the MPC-5000 is actually is above 16bit as there is no conversion at any stage beyond 16bit.


Dude it's time to just let it go.

 

[Kojak]

Give what up? I'm not a fanboy, I use an mpc because it works best for me, if you don't like it, that's you.

 

[moyphee]

Give what up? I'm not a fanboy, I use an mpc because it works best for me, if you don't like it, that's you.

That wasn't for you dude! We're cool as far as I'm concerned.

 

[jahrome]

Continuous Tracks are not the same as a linear Audio Track recorded to RAM or HD.

Actually, those are all the bugs encountered by adding and changing features throughout beta testing and not the public release.

Those were encountered by users reporting them to Akai and being confirmed.

5Ks 8 tracks of 23 bit hard disk recording.
No part of the MPC-5000 is actually is above 16bit as there is no conversion at any stage beyond 16bit.


Dude it's time to just let it go.

I am fully aware what Continuous Sample Tracks. They are exactly what the name states. The MV doesn't have them.

The 5Ks hard disk recorder is 24 bits just like the Alesis Fusion. Users also have the option to export the hard disk tracks in 24 or 16 bit format. You would know this information if you actually had real knowledge or use the 5K. The MV doesn't have this.

I already wrote about the bugs no need to repeat myself. But what I wrote was factual and it really doesn't matter at this point. The 5K and OS 2.0 completely out does the MV-8800. Roland should stop marketing the MV as expandable since it discontinued the expansion boards months ago. I anticipate the price of the MV to drop to about $1200-$1300 so they can clear out stock.

So getting back on topic...the MV doesn't do very much the MPC 5K can't. As an MV owner/supporter you have struggled to come up with anyone. You then challenged me to talk about the 5K features...and I did. I completely shut you up when I posted several dozen features the 5K has that the MV doesn't. And there is still a small possibility that more features or enhancements are added to the 5K.

 

[Bananasass]

Also, you are incorrect about the MV and its long audio tracks going out of sync. Roland product specialist confirmed that this problem still exists..and even if it didn't....I would not compare the MVs Ram-based audio tracks with the 5Ks 8 tracks of 23 bit hard disk recording.

I use the MV, I installed the update a long time ago and I do not have any lagging audio issues ever since. You never have talked to any product specialist for sure. The issue is gone.

Also, 23bit? Are you sure you own an MPC5000?

OS2.0 is out for the MPC 5000 and it completely destroys the MV. It is not subjective. I am matching function per function.

Next level OS my ass, most if not all of those 'features' should have been in there from day one. Most bugfixes should have been done BEFORE they released their machine.

By the way, I don't give a rats ass about your function per function matching or whatever, you are biased and you don't know jack about the MV. I'm sure you will now reply with one of your other FP accounts saying this is weak, but I couldn't care less.

You aren't genuinely interested in comparing the two, you're just trying to justify your purchase. Lol, good ****ing luck with that.

The 5Ks hard disk recorder is 24 bits just like the Alesis Fusion. Users also have the option to export the hard disk tracks in 24 or 16 bit format. You would know this information if you actually had real knowledge or use the 5K. The MV doesn't have this.

And here you are being wrong again. The MV actually has the same thing going (dithering in the mastering section can pump the depth up to 24bit, direct recording is actually also 24bits, internal sampler engine is 16bits).

Really neither one of them is truly 24bits though, so don't act like your MPC5k is. It's not. The depth conversion doesn't actually upgrade the entire sound to 24bit, it only changes the format of the file. The moment you mangle your samples in either one of them, it will be on a 16bit level.

 

[jahrome]

1. Mike Acosta (who got fired from Roland) confirmed the long samples going out of sync as well as a few forum members. That is why there is a sticky posted at the MV Forum which gives you the work around. If you talk about this problem or anything negative about the soon to be discontinued MV-8800, your posts will get deleted and the thread locked. This is a fact.

2. I addressed my error in the post above. The 5K records 24bit hard disk tracks...8 tracks. This is not the same thing that the MV has. Not even close but nice try. Editing the 5Ks hard disk tracks does not change them to 16 bit. They are actually hard disk audio tracks and not merely samples.

3. I only have one Future Producer account and have no need to have another.

4. The 5Ks first OS was already next level. This is why I created a thread which showed dozens of features that the MV doesn't have. OS1.0 was based off of customer feedback from users of the older MPCs. Akai clearly stated in the 5Ks manual that they will add user requests. OS 2.0 is the result of this feedback. Many of the features added are MPC firsts. So it is a little silly to talk about what it should have had these to begin with when there is no product on the market which has these features. But then again. the same can be said with the MVs updates. Everything Roland added with its 3 major OS updates could have been done with the first.

5. I am interested in comparing the two. I created this MV specific thread for its users to talk about what they loved about the MV and the features it has that the MPC doesn't. You couldn't come up with much. But what you did come up with, I reported to Akai through feature request threads. So now keygroup sampling with S1000/3000/5000/6000 and Z8 sample/program import is now possible. Previewing synths are now possible. All functions heavily talked about from MV users. Additionally, I only created an MPC 5K thread because of the feedback I received in this thread. So don't get mad at me for quickly writing dozen of features that 5K has that the MV doesn't.

6. By the way...I don't have to justify my purchase. MPCs are the industry standard. Even I had to eventually switch to Pro Tools.

 

[moyphee]

The OS 2.0 is really a giant tweak more than an mega-upgrade. I am glad that the unit finally works to some degree but if history is an indication new bugs will reemerge and problems will arise.

Saleswise the 5000 is in big trouble. Old or not ,the 8800 with the rebate are flying off the shelf. I speculate that is merely trying to save it's investment. With so many returns and bugs, it's pretty much a one deal. People don't rebuy $2500 hardware that didn't work the first time around.

I can appreciate bumping your own threads to rekindle a conversation about a machine nobody has hardly mentioned for weeks. When 2.0 dropped nobody even cared for the most part because the verdict is pretty much in on the 5000 and it's just hanging on for dear life at this point.

Keygroups and other additions move it past the 2500 but the 5000 is 16bit hardware and no part of it input,processes, or outputs 24bit audio. There are no 24 converters nor are there any 24bit recording conversions in play at any stage. Saving a 16bit file as 24bit still is just a repackaged file as previosly stated.

As far as Mike Acosta being laid off, that was the cheapest of shots. Dude didn't have to make that public but he did for the guys that saw him as Roland's link to users. To use that as some selling point is just plain low and highly irrelevant. For the record he didn't just show when there was new machine launched. He been at ground zero since day one.

On a different note:
The new hybrids are adding more options to the discussion so this whole thing is meaningless.
I just saw this link at MVN (they switched things up over there I see). The NI guys seemed to have something going but I'm not ready to take the plunge. It is really nice concept though. This could be the new breed if the integration up to par. Could spur some pretty sophisticated controller down the road.

http://www.native-instruments.com/newreleases/#/en/products/producer/maschine/videos/?content=115

 

[Bananasass]

1. Mike Acosta (who got fired from Roland) confirmed the long samples going out of sync as well as a few forum members. That is why there is a sticky posted at the MV Forum which gives you the work around.

Doh, Mike confirmed it before the update I am talking about ever came out, so again go do your homework better. The thread you are talking about is stickied because it's useful.

I am aware that the v.1.0.1 update isn't very widespread yet because Roland did not put it up on all of their websites yet. And because a lot of people do not speak or are able to read Japanese it only makes sense that people aren't fully aware of the fix yet. Go ask on MVnation though, you'll see I am right.

If you talk about this problem or anything negative about the soon to be discontinued MV-8800, your posts will get deleted and the thread locked. This is a fact.

I've seen your posts there, you were posting a lot of bs there repeating the same old Akai propaganda crap that has been refuted plenty of times before. No need to waste time going over all that again and again.

2. I addressed my error in the post above. The 5K records 24bit hard disk tracks...8 tracks. This is not the same thing that the MV has. Not even close but nice try.

You've made a lot more, go address them as well! You clearly lack any serious knowledge of the MV as evident by your claim of how it's supposedly different. Doing a mixdown on the MV records to harddisk.