gettin 808 kick sounding clean

moses said:
no, it's the exact opposite.

the most expensive gear and the most experienced engineer is worth nothing without decent monitoring. the monitoring system is the "eye" of the audio-engineer.

yall better listen to moses on this one......my life has changed ever since i left that bullshyt mbox and alesis520's and got some krkv6's with a lynx sound card. enormous difference and niether company is endorsing me do i have no need to put on extras but i do have a need to go back and remix all my mixes and remake most of my beats since my piano sounds actualy sound like i'm sitting in front of the piano with the lid open. Oh and the soundstage is exceptional.......i feel like a new man with new ears!! AND the headroom is ridiculous
 
GJOrange said:
Try removing everything from the kick track below about 80-100hz with a high pass on your eq.
Then use another band on the EQ to sweep between 80 - 150hz to find the nicest bass frequency to increase.
Whicj ever frequency you choose to increase, double it and add a little increase there too.
So, as an example:

1. Cut everything below 80hz
2. Boost a bit at 110hz
3. Boost a bit at 220hz (double 110hz used above)

This is the WORST advice I've ever heard about an 808 kick. Cut below 30-40hz. Boost at 100-160hz for more attack. Cutting at 80hz gets rid of your boom. The whole reason for the 808.

Plus, not all 808's are clean. My favorite sounding 808's were filled with static and dirt. But they sound the thickest so I used x-noise on them to clean them up then some really carefull eq-ing to really tighten up the sounds. The result. I have the cleanest, thickest, tightest, and most rediculous sounding 808's ever. Nothing touches them. Soon will be offered in Refill format as well as wav format for FL Studio.
 
Please explain your logic.

As it's mainly only studios that have perfect balance and the rest of the spaces where people listen to music have far from perfect acoustics (i.e. in the car, livingroom,bedroom,kitchen,mp3 player etc), please explain how mixing in a flat environment helps.

As I said before, the mixing environment need not be pure. It is more important to be used to to the space that you mix in.

Most producers/engineers who have mixed in a pure environment employ cross referencing in two ways.

1. They use a recording already produced to compare the new mix with and attempt to match them up. Experience with your mixing environment whether pure or not reduces the necessity to have to do this.

2. They take mixes into less than perfect spaces (all the ones listed before), listen to them and then go back into the pure environment and make adjustments! Again, experience reduces the need to have to do this.

Please use your logic to explain these steps.

Another point is that everybodies hearing is different. One person is more responsive in different frequencies than another person.
The shape of a persons ear influences the sound. Use your logic to test that by moving your outer ear around. So, even in a perfect space with perfect monitoring, everyone hears the same thing differently anyway.

The next point is that you actually need to be experienced in a flat space to mix well in there. You have to know how a good mix sounds in a flat space before you can produce a good mix in there.

So it's more important to know how a good mix sounds in YOUR space than how a good mix sounds in a PERFECT space. I'm afraid thats the logic of the matter.

The only benefit of learning to mix in a perfect space is that after experience you can go and mix in other perfect spaces without having to learn them. It's more of a standard than something thats essential.

And for the record, there is nothing you can tell me about Bob Katz. I'm sure he would fully agree with what I'm saying and I am damn certain he could do a great mix on a ghetto blaster if he wanted to.

Bob Katz teaches the standard and he is an expert.
Much like someone teaches you standard tuning on the guitar.
This does not mean that it is the only tuning that can be used to make music. It just creates a level playing field much like the perfect space.

"This is the WORST advice I've ever heard about an 808 kick. Cut below 30-40hz. Boost at 100-160hz for more attack. Cutting at 80hz gets rid of your boom. The whole reason for the 808.

Plus, not all 808's are clean. My favorite sounding 808's were filled with static and dirt. But they sound the thickest so I used x-noise on them to clean them up then some really carefull eq-ing to really tighten up the sounds. The result. I have the cleanest, thickest, tightest, and most rediculous sounding 808's ever. Nothing touches them. Soon will be offered in Refill format as well as wav format for FL Studio."



Surely sir, it depends on what kind of music you are making and what sound you are going for?
What I gave was an example of what I may do in a mix, not a hard and fast rule. It's a bit crass of you to try to suggest that your way is the only way, dont' you think?
Now, well done for producing your PERFECT sounding kicks but as most of us know it's useless wasting time on making things sound excellent on their own, it's how they sound in the mix that counts. What you cut and boost on a kick will depend largely on where you decide to sit the bass. For this reason, I don't think there will be much of a market for your opinion of a perfect kick, not when people can easily get hold of a pure 808 kick. That way they can decide what sounds perfect in their own mix.

People are more likely to take ADVICE than they are to listen to someone proclaiming that they have the worlds best kicks regardless of the mix. lol.
 
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There is a difference between going for a certain sound and just WRONG! You NEVER and I mean NEVER put a low cut at 80hz or above on an 808 kick or you chose the wrong kit.

And my perfect 808's are just that. Perfect to be shaped and fit into a mix. And if you accually read what I said I just tightend them up with eq. I did not eq them to sound like I like them to sound, I eq-ed them to get rid of all the garbage and just bring out the true sound of them. That's why everyone that hears any track I've made with them flips out, and big producers all over ATL use them, and why people buy them at $100 at a bargan. And that was my first set. The second set is seriously (for lack of a better word) perfect. My kit contains 36 ultra clean variations of attack and decay of the 808 kick as well as many variations of the snare and hats. With the toms, congas and bongos, cymbal, and hi-hats. Rim sounds and everything. I took hours and hours working on these sounds. Maybe I'll post a little taste.
 
"There is a difference between going for a certain sound and just WRONG! You NEVER and I mean NEVER put a low cut at 80hz or above on an 808 kick or you chose the wrong kit.

And my perfect 808's are just that."



Dude, the statements above say a lot about you.

There is no NEVER in production. Otherwise nothing would ever change or evolve. You may think you know the RULES but they are your rules and your rules only.

For your information MANY sucessful mixes have ALL their drums rolled off below 100hz if the bass is carrying the low end.

Who are you to be making the rules and to be telling people that they can NEVER do something?

I think you are one of those experts who has a lot to learn.
There are more and more of you springing up these days.

OMG Morning Star.

Just been to your site and listened to some of your stuff.

ALL of your stuff is WAY TOO BASS HEAVY! WAY!

It can't be the first time someone has said that to you.
You are really in no position to be saying what you should NEVER do.
You obviously think you have got this music game locked off but you really should start allowing yourself to learn again.
Your mixes would sound awful in most cars and peoples stereos.
If you go to my site you will hear a more level mix by a much more experienced producer.
 
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Yeah, your right my stuff was too bass heavy, two years ago. I have not posted anything new in quite sometime since my music is being shopped around ATL. To people such as artist working with Jazze Phaa. Young Dro, Akon, Justin Timberlake and more. So you have no clue what my mixes sound like. I'm paid to mix, and record engineer. I work at big studios. And everything you have heard was mixed on house speakers. I now have JBL LSR series monitors and some NS-10s. My mixes are fine now. I have a similar mixing style to all of Timbaland's stuff. I now mix extremely conservative for anyone in the ATL right now. More like JT's album. I'm working on a new webpage to display how my work now sounds.

But I can say you should never cut anywhere near 80 or 100hz when your looking for the bass of an 808. Maybe you should check out a spektral analyzer sometime on an 808.

I hate to name drop but don't doubt my work.
 
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tonedef said:
Im mixing in PT and Im trying to get my 808 to sound thick and clean. When I listen to it on my monitors or my head phones it sounds pretty good. However, when I bounce the track out and listen to it on my laptop monitors, the 808 sounds either too low or too high and distorted. Im trying to put this track on myspace and Im trying to get the 808 clean so people can hear it. Any suggestions??
The 808 BD has never translated well to small speakers. I remember writing a jingle about ten years ago using an 808 as bass... then being horrified when listening to it on a TV... where did the bass go!

If you think most of the people listening to your track will hear it on laptop monitors then your going to need to tame those low freq... But how many people listen to music on laptop speakers?

Good Luck

PS. I know this is shameless self promotion but :rolleyes:.... I recently put out a sample based product with an 808 sampled into an MPC60... The result.... well phat of course! See my sig below...
 
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"But I can say you should never cut anywhere near 80 or 100hz when your looking for the bass of an 808."


Yes you can say it but it doesn't make it true.

The fact that your stuff has been "shopped around" to big names is nothing to name drop about.
Did they pick up any of your stuff? No? Didn't think so.

When you are sucessful, you don't need to name drop because you are a name yourself. Read into that what you will.
 
How do you know my stuff hasn't been picked up? Accually I do have big names using my stuff. If you knew anything then you would know it doesn't drop straight on a cd or radio. That's all the label's decision. I hang out with people you wish you could meet. One of my best friends produced people such as Juv the Great, Luda, Bone Crusher, Goodie Mob and pleanty others. I do music for a livin and more people can't say that than can. I'm sorry i hurt you feelins so bad but damn, quit with your b*tchin. Your wrong and just admit it.

Do me a favor and check out an 808 with a spectral analyzer.

Where is the hit at? Huh? Look!
 
"I hang out with people you wish you could meet."


hahahahaha. What? lol.

Look, you say I'm wrong. All I did was offer advice and then.....

1. You start telling people that they should NEVER do certain things.

2. You start saying you have PERFECT kicks. lol. Perfect for what?

3. You say that you hang around with people I wish I could meet when you don't even know who I am.

It all makes you sound like a bit of a dick.

Now, lets address this spectrum analyser business.

Have a look on your 808. Oh, I forgot, you don't have one. I'll just look at mine for you and explain.

On the kick section there is a control for pitch cos most of us pros TUNE our kicks to the track we are producing.

Now if I take my analyser I find that the the frequencies of the drums characteristics (i.e. where the bass is strongest, where the punch is etc) move around depending on the pitch setting of the kick.
So, there are NO SET FREQUENCIES you can tell people to cut or boost. For example, if you put the pitch to its highest you would barely be taking away anything at all by high passing at 80hz. So there is at least one situation where it would be fine.

Go ask your big powerful friends about that. lol.

My advice to you is:

1. Actually get an 808 before you tell someone who has one how to use it.

2. Realise that saying things like "One of my best friends........etc" sounds infantile and carries no weight whatsoever.

3. Take an analyser yourself and play with the pitch on an 808 kick and watch how the frequencies move around. Where is the hit at? Huh? Look!

And for the record, you are incapable of hurting me in a conversation about eq'ing 808 kicks.

And as for the "if you knew anything...." comment, I can assure you I know lots as you may be beginning to see but if you want to continue until I completely back you into a corner, you may learn that your PERFECT kicks are not perfect for everything and you need to TUNE your kicks and eq in relation to the pitch to acheive great 808 kicks IN THE MIX.
 
noblewordz said:
If you need a spectral analyzer to see where an 808 sits, you got problems.

Who says I needed one. I just know what a 808 looks like in one because I know what freq. it uses. Apparently he needs one to study.

I'm out of here because yall this is a battle going nowhere just like any internet argument. I've got better things to do.
 
No, you are leaving because there are no fixed frequencies for adjusting an 808 kick because you can change the pitch on the machine and that just kills your argument.
 
GJOrange said:
No, you are leaving because there are no fixed frequencies for adjusting an 808 kick because you can change the pitch on the machine and that just kills your argument.

I want your 808... mine only has "Tone" and "Decay" on the BD...
 
huggie said:
I want your 808... mine only has "Tone" and "Decay" on the BD...

Ummm, it depends on what u are using, I'm using battery 3 and i load in a 808.wav file and then i can tune it.

And for the guy that thinks 808s all reside in 80hz u REALLY do need to look at it in a spectrum analyizer cuz it changes.... Thats like saying if u hit C4 on a piano and then hit C1 it doesnt change.....

before you mix your drums u have to tune them to the key(initial pitch) of your song, THEN EQ it
 
I obviously meant on his whatever he plays his 808 samples through. It will have a pitch control.
My ACTUAL 808 has no pitch control but it has a tone control which also alters frequency.
 
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