J
Jeauxiah
New member
the truth is, no one is smart. we are all human and we are all insignificant and dont know anything
mwandishi
New member
Wisdom as usual Deranged. But a couple things are important I think.
One, hip-hop has always had a conscious lane that advertised anti-mainstream views/critiques of what was going on in the hood, or with black folk. Bambata, Rakim, PE, KRS-one, Tribe, De La, Dead Prez, and Lupe can all be viewed as part of this tradition. A lot of the classic ny hip-hop of the late eighties and early nineties was influneced by the five percenter (a sub sect of the nation) views of these cats. The WU had a heavy critique mixed with their love of material things (ghost comes to mind). I mean these people could be azzes for all i know but i appreciate that that has always been part of hip-hop and just because they talk it I don' expect them to lead a so-called revolution. Outside of the local level, ain't too many harry belafontes or paul robinsons today.
Two, it is entertainment. As u said, 9/10 of these people are not full activists or gangstas. The fact that they are flawed or act like the crazy people we all know is not a surprise. Some cats are real, some are not, but I don't know any of these cats personally to say for sure. Just sounds like people saying who they don't like I mean u have all types of example of this in the US. I mean its like the pro-black dude who only dates light skin black or white women. Seen it a hundred times, another contradiction. Ain't nothing new, u know.
I always thought artists were brilliant in their own light!
An artist, should not be judged on how much they know about current events or philosophy; they should be judged by their art in my view.
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deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
New member
I agree that musicians should be judged by their art. I also agree that voicing opinions have always been a part of hip hop. Difference is, you have Chuck Ds, KRSes, even 2Pacs who before stepping to the soap box to preach took the time to get facts straight, educate themselves, and present themselves as intellectually sound individuals with their points of view. Agree or disagree, they could validate their stance. They didn't just say dumb things for the sake of saying something. All fairness, in the wrong media, 2pac would throw intelligence out the window, but if it was a civilized sit down, he was great at sticking to topic and making amazing statements.
Then you have guys like Lupe and Nas who are the equivalent to the news camera man passing any halfway regular person standing outside to get the interview from Shaniqua with the baby stroller who "had seent erraythang". If anything their intelligence(or lack of) is shown in the fact they keep allowing themselves to get caught up in "I seent erraythang" moments. I'm not the smartest person, ask me my views on politics on a forum, I may discuss because I'm nobody. If I was Nas, I'd choose to pass on that question and speak on something i know. You can even do it without losing 'intelligence points" by saying "politics(or whatever, fill in the blank) are personal to me, i don't think everyone will share or understand my view, so I'd rather not express it".
Nas speaking on hip hop, 90s in NYC, good weed, expensive cars, women, stories of his life, ect. comes off as a wealth of knowledge in my eyes. Second he talks politics or tries to get into some deep convo, that's when he fails. And he's failing every other idiot dumb enough to take his word as gospel. You can't say you're not a role model/teacher and then 10 minutes later say "sit down class, I got something you need to learn". THEY WILL LISTEN.
All Lupe ever talks is "deep prolific BS", so i can't even give him the pass for other things I give nas. He could look just as stupid talking about brushing his teeth for all I know.
It's not just hip hop BTW. TONS MORE smart-dumb rockstars speak up to influence TONS MORE people.
Then you have guys like Lupe and Nas who are the equivalent to the news camera man passing any halfway regular person standing outside to get the interview from Shaniqua with the baby stroller who "had seent erraythang". If anything their intelligence(or lack of) is shown in the fact they keep allowing themselves to get caught up in "I seent erraythang" moments. I'm not the smartest person, ask me my views on politics on a forum, I may discuss because I'm nobody. If I was Nas, I'd choose to pass on that question and speak on something i know. You can even do it without losing 'intelligence points" by saying "politics(or whatever, fill in the blank) are personal to me, i don't think everyone will share or understand my view, so I'd rather not express it".
Nas speaking on hip hop, 90s in NYC, good weed, expensive cars, women, stories of his life, ect. comes off as a wealth of knowledge in my eyes. Second he talks politics or tries to get into some deep convo, that's when he fails. And he's failing every other idiot dumb enough to take his word as gospel. You can't say you're not a role model/teacher and then 10 minutes later say "sit down class, I got something you need to learn". THEY WILL LISTEN.
All Lupe ever talks is "deep prolific BS", so i can't even give him the pass for other things I give nas. He could look just as stupid talking about brushing his teeth for all I know.
It's not just hip hop BTW. TONS MORE smart-dumb rockstars speak up to influence TONS MORE people.
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mwandishi
New member
Cool. That's why I say there're all entertainers.
I'm not as familair with the shaniqua moments with Nas and I've only seen a couple with Lupe. But in most cases artists are limited in what they know, and they all have egos. Chuch D, Krs, and Pac had beginner levels of knowledge on what they spoke on most of time outside of music. That's not what they do, i ain't madd. They read a few books, but what u do is what u do. I've heard Chuck, Krs, and Pac say some suspect shit that wouldn't stand up in an open discussion, but I can dig the vibe. Nuccas talk shit, I know that, but their art makes me overlook that. We all have our views (and i know yours are far from simple), its cool.
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
New member
^^^Oh, KRS is infamous for speaking outlandish OPINIONS. I don't agree with most of what he says, but he never IMO pushes his agenda to be some "truth". It's like Brother Griff's "facts" about illuminati that make me shake my head at him vs. Dave Chapelle's "I'm not sure what it is, but something's out there" OPINIONS that make his views tolerable and discussable without being able to call him out for flat out B.S.
From what i've seen, Chuck D holds back when he's inable to follow a discussion. He just get's quiet. Better than spurting nonsense just to hear yourself talk with a clever smirk on your face like you know something no one else does(Lupe).
I'll be here all day analyzing Pac. I think even when that dude said the most idiotic shyt, he was smart enough to know how it would provoke people and how much truth what he said actually held. Treading thin water...didn't every crackhead/criminal/ex prisoner turned black panther(you know, the guys who raised him)use the same tactics to provoke? Same brainwashing tactics are used by black muslims, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton...Bishop Eddie Long, lol.
I'll be called an uncle tom in 5...4...3......
In all fairness, while on the wrong platform you'd get "real nikka pac" promoting us all to stand up and fight even when there was nothing to fight for, on the right platform where he knew he couldn't get by yelling and ranting about how hard it is to be black, he could have the most civil and intellectual conversations. Very complex dude.
From what i've seen, Chuck D holds back when he's inable to follow a discussion. He just get's quiet. Better than spurting nonsense just to hear yourself talk with a clever smirk on your face like you know something no one else does(Lupe).
I'll be here all day analyzing Pac. I think even when that dude said the most idiotic shyt, he was smart enough to know how it would provoke people and how much truth what he said actually held. Treading thin water...didn't every crackhead/criminal/ex prisoner turned black panther(you know, the guys who raised him)use the same tactics to provoke? Same brainwashing tactics are used by black muslims, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton...Bishop Eddie Long, lol.
I'll be called an uncle tom in 5...4...3......
In all fairness, while on the wrong platform you'd get "real nikka pac" promoting us all to stand up and fight even when there was nothing to fight for, on the right platform where he knew he couldn't get by yelling and ranting about how hard it is to be black, he could have the most civil and intellectual conversations. Very complex dude.
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Z
ZayFarOut
New member
I WAS WATCHING AN INTERVIEW W/ HIM EARLIER THIS WEEK AND I CAUGHT MYSELF THINKING "WTF IS THIS DUDE TALKING ABOUT". I CANT SAY I KNOW TOO TOO MUCH ABOUT KRS ONE BUT FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN HE GETS THE #FAKESMART STAMP
F A R T H E R O U T . C O M
@SaintTigg
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Ill Rocka
IBI & Purple Reign
I don't want to come off like a dick, but I think alot of artists (not just rappers) are just straight dumb. Now, when you have a couple artists that are not dumb but certainly not smart either, they may seem to be smart in a pool of dumb people, while in actuality they're just average.
If you'd put a "normal" person in a "special" school, he'd grow up thinking he's the smartest dude on the planet. < Now replace "normal person" with Lupe/Common/KRS/Nas etc. and "special school" with the rapgame and you have your answer to why these dudes think their opinions are even remotely valuable.
---------- Post added at 02:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 AM ----------
If this was meant to come off as profound then you failed at "The truth IS"
Kinda ironic that you claim something as an absolute truth while that something is that we know nothing... catch 22
If you'd put a "normal" person in a "special" school, he'd grow up thinking he's the smartest dude on the planet. < Now replace "normal person" with Lupe/Common/KRS/Nas etc. and "special school" with the rapgame and you have your answer to why these dudes think their opinions are even remotely valuable.
---------- Post added at 02:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 AM ----------
If this was meant to come off as profound then you failed at "The truth IS"
Kinda ironic that you claim something as an absolute truth while that something is that we know nothing... catch 22
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M
MMRTLK
New member
That's kind of how I feel about KRS One, which is why I asked how everyone felt about him. I wouldnt call him fake smart, but sometimes he does get a little weird or preachy. He and Lupe I think arent very different, both can be very opinionated and extreme at times. I don't think it really matters whether or not a rappers is really smart, I think their main purpose is to inspire and influence people so that they hopefully search for the truth on their own.
J
JeanLukPigheart
Guest
A dumb person can never pretend to be intelligent without being recognized as dumb by smart people. But it's also hard to "dumb shit down".
As Deranged said, a lot of these brainwashing techniques were used (for example) by the black Muslims, who took over the Black Panther movement once they have realized that they can push both, a political AND a religious agenda, claiming to help only.
That's the exact same technique Christian missionaries use in poor countries. "Here's your food for the day.......but now you have to come to this service and listen about the Lord". Same difference.
Anti-White movements within the African American minority were the product of segregation, not of religious or political differences. Only religious organisations realized the potential to "divide & conquer" (point out the differences AND start the dumbing down and missionary work) and started to use race/religion/politics to expand their organizations. So the socialist (and for a large part college-level and beyond) intellectuals of the Black Panthers were overtaken by conspiracy-theory-spreading Black Muslims.
So it's not a surprise that someone who Mos Def or (all of a sudden, after being pressed to convert by his brother and close family) people like Chappelle see a conspiracy in EVERYTHING, while the truth is out there in the open.
Mos Def is not only opinionated on that Bill Maher show, his opinions are based on stupid (to say the least), imbecile-level logic that is so apparently wrong..........that you can only defend it, when you think you are smarter than anybody else and "you are in the know".
And why are you "in the know"? Because you've heard about conspiracy theories. And who wants you to accept said theories as absolute truths? The people who want you to be dumb, so that they can push theories on you and sell them as "truth" and manipulate you. Again, while the truth is out there, in the open, obtainable without any effort.
Now were the "old school heads" smart? Most of them were not book-smart, true. But a lot of them possessed the intelligence to analyze their environment and make clear comments on the political/socio-economical picture that was "under the radar".
That's why by many (including most Whites), Hip Hop used to be the "Black Man's CNN".
So yeah, a lot of these old heads were smart, but today, analyzing your own surroundings, your own environment is not enough. The picture changes and you have to go beyond your own borders, literally, to see the world for what it is and be able to learn as much as possible, because the world is so much bigger than "the hood".
Knowing that, these old heads appear to be less smart than we thought they were "back in the days". But then again, they talked about THEIR world, not THE world (like conspiracy theories suggest), so for what it's worth, "they knew THEIR shit"!.
As Deranged said, a lot of these brainwashing techniques were used (for example) by the black Muslims, who took over the Black Panther movement once they have realized that they can push both, a political AND a religious agenda, claiming to help only.
That's the exact same technique Christian missionaries use in poor countries. "Here's your food for the day.......but now you have to come to this service and listen about the Lord". Same difference.
Anti-White movements within the African American minority were the product of segregation, not of religious or political differences. Only religious organisations realized the potential to "divide & conquer" (point out the differences AND start the dumbing down and missionary work) and started to use race/religion/politics to expand their organizations. So the socialist (and for a large part college-level and beyond) intellectuals of the Black Panthers were overtaken by conspiracy-theory-spreading Black Muslims.
So it's not a surprise that someone who Mos Def or (all of a sudden, after being pressed to convert by his brother and close family) people like Chappelle see a conspiracy in EVERYTHING, while the truth is out there in the open.
Mos Def is not only opinionated on that Bill Maher show, his opinions are based on stupid (to say the least), imbecile-level logic that is so apparently wrong..........that you can only defend it, when you think you are smarter than anybody else and "you are in the know".
And why are you "in the know"? Because you've heard about conspiracy theories. And who wants you to accept said theories as absolute truths? The people who want you to be dumb, so that they can push theories on you and sell them as "truth" and manipulate you. Again, while the truth is out there, in the open, obtainable without any effort.
Now were the "old school heads" smart? Most of them were not book-smart, true. But a lot of them possessed the intelligence to analyze their environment and make clear comments on the political/socio-economical picture that was "under the radar".
That's why by many (including most Whites), Hip Hop used to be the "Black Man's CNN".
So yeah, a lot of these old heads were smart, but today, analyzing your own surroundings, your own environment is not enough. The picture changes and you have to go beyond your own borders, literally, to see the world for what it is and be able to learn as much as possible, because the world is so much bigger than "the hood".
Knowing that, these old heads appear to be less smart than we thought they were "back in the days". But then again, they talked about THEIR world, not THE world (like conspiracy theories suggest), so for what it's worth, "they knew THEIR shit"!.
fataltone
Holy Lamb Media & Ent.
let them call you Uncle Tom because they will be calling you a HERO,yes a HERO
Uncle Tom=Reverend Josiah Henson
why is he a hero
1.He led out more slaves to freedom than Harriet Tubman(but what you never heard of him???)
2.Built the first settlement for freed slaves(or runaways slaves)
3.Built the first school for freed slaves(or runaways slaves)
Go to Canada and see his Statue (Canadian have more respect for their Black hero(s) than americans
we use a racial slur and change a few words and call are self by that term
now ppl will say Tone is fake-smart
stop downplaying your black hero(s) and represent them with facts
Dr. King (cheat on his wife lots of times) but we remember him as a crusader for black rights(he actually was for human rights)
A great book to read is Blackboy By Richard Wright
he hate white ppl too at least found them disgusting by their behavior(he grew up in a time when you couldn't look a white man in the eye when walking down the street) he moved to Paris once he made a ton of money off of his novel
Native Son(also a amazing book)
how many ppl here actually have a personal library(not mags) but actual novels???
-Coach Antonio
"Let Me Handle your next Praise Party"
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*Music Business Professionals Read Their Tips
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Building Relationships to Build Success
Get the Information and Direction You Deserve
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RedBeerd
New member
It seems that there is a basic misunderstanding about what "smart" is, what "intellect" is, and how those who are in possession of one or the other aren't necessarily able to demonstrate one to support the other. Please do check out the definitions of "intelligence" and "smart".
It hurts when a recognized MC, who possesses intellect-as demonstrated in their music, to my satisfaction-is called upon on-the-spot to discuss something that they might not have that much Knowledge about, and be expected to show the same intellectual prowess that they're recognized for. The same thing holds for a sharp-witted individual who can respond to on-the-spot prodding with amazing keenness of observation that might get called upon to remark upon something that might take a person years of studying and introspection to understand and form solid opinions on.
Peace.
It hurts when a recognized MC, who possesses intellect-as demonstrated in their music, to my satisfaction-is called upon on-the-spot to discuss something that they might not have that much Knowledge about, and be expected to show the same intellectual prowess that they're recognized for. The same thing holds for a sharp-witted individual who can respond to on-the-spot prodding with amazing keenness of observation that might get called upon to remark upon something that might take a person years of studying and introspection to understand and form solid opinions on.
Peace.
J
JeanLukPigheart
Guest
Actually, there is no confusion when it comes to these things. The "intellect" is a thing/a construct within your psyche, "intelligence" is a recognizable result created by the correctly functioning "intellect". Being "smart" also means being able to use the tools you possess in a certain situation to generate the best outcome in said situation.
So the meanings, for the most part, are interchangeable. "It was smart for John to buy that house at that time"/"The CEO of Company X was intelligent enough to recognize the potential of acquiring Company Z"/"It'd be irrational to spend more than 10m for that company"(so that also defines what the rational/smart/intelligent thing would be, namely, spending LESS than 10m).
That's for said terms when used by "layman". Now in a biological context, intelligence is equal to the ability of an individual to survive using its environment for survival. This can apply to hunting methods of animals, the chimpanzee which realizes that using a stick to reach that fruit it can't without is the "smart" thing to do, etc...
Beyond that, intelligence has many, many definitions.
Huh? Why does that "hurt"? It's completely irrational behavior and shouldn't be done. Would it PERSONALLY hurt you, when I was lost in the city you are living in and I asked you for the address of a company
and you didn't know where it was? Or would you simply say "sorry, but I can't give you directions. I don't know where it is!". Btw, that's the reason why you should always ask a woman for directions. A man will either tell you the correct direction OR he will (unintentionally) make one up, when pressed to give an answer. That's how we men are programmed. We are supposed to know the direction, we are supposed to give an answer and "know things".
But that's the difference between said "fake-smart" rappers/religious people/pseudo-intellectuals AND rational people and scientists.
One side ALWAYS claims to know the answer, while the other admits their ignorance when that's the case or makes the people aware that they are not an expert in a given field.
You won't see a chemist try to answer the questions of a historians or try to "teach" them history, because KNOWLEDGE is different to OPINIONS. Knowledge is based on facts, opinions are based on personal preferences/prejudices/misinformation/ignorance.
So next time your favorite rapper is being asked about the political situation in China, he should either admit that he doesn't know shit about it, or make the disclaimer (before presenting their opinion) that, "from the little that I know about China...".
I mean, is it so hard to admit that you are not perfect?
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U
unique osmosis
New member
How can you be fake/smart ? If a teacher teaches you out of a math book wouldn't that make her fake/smart she's not using her own intelligence and last time I checked everything you know is learned from somewhere else even producing you copied from your inspirations to make your style the thing that makes us special is our perceptions "NO ONE MAN CAN KNOW EVERYTHING" No one can truly be intelligent because there always something that you don't know.
Only a insecure man judges another man's intelligence.
Only a insecure man judges another man's intelligence.
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deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
New member
Now people are overdissecting. Not sure who originally said it(maybe AS20GP?)but I'm pretty sure the guy who called Lupe "Fake-Smart" originally was just calling him a "pseudo-intellectual".
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U
unique osmosis
New member
The "EGO" is something else I'm not afraid to say I don't know that's how you learn.
People feel if they don't know that makes them look small or stupid is what it is.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mark Twain
[/FONT]
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
New member
Madonna tells fans in concert to support the Faker-Smart.
RedBeerd
New member
"Intelligent" and "smart" are NOT the same thing. Take a student for example. Let's say the student is capable of memorizing the definitions of 100 words for an exam. If the student applies him/herself to the task, they could memorize all of the definitions. That's smart. Their intelligence would determine their capability of retaining all of definitions for future use. Smart does not mean intelligent.
"Btw, that's the reason why you should always ask a woman for directions. A man will either tell you the correct direction OR he will (unintentionally) make one up, when pressed to give an answer. That's how we men are programmed."
Wut the hell is this?^^
" KNOWLEDGE is different to OPINIONS. Knowledge is based on facts, opinions are based on personal preferences/prejudices/misinformation/ignorance."
There is no comparison between Knowledge and opinion. In a perfect world, you couldn't have one without the other. Knowledge is not based on fact either. Knowledge is based on what perceived to be fact. Just because you heard it or read it doesn't make it true. Which is why research is so important. Real research, like what scientists and historians do.
The reason I said that it's painful to see such a thing is because, whenever someone works their way out of the worst of situations-rappers in particular-it seems as if the press tries to ridicule them, to their face. Bill O'Reilly comes to mind. He had Cam'ron and Damon Dash on there once, and he opened up by saying, "Now we're gonna have a nice, intelligent conversation here, gentleman, alright?" I don't watch O'Reilly, but I'm sure he doesn't open up that way when he has other guests on. Obviously Cam'ron and Dash are smart. They used what was available to them to work their way up out of poverty. But the host of that program didn't really give a phuck, did he?
THAT kind of blind disrespect is what hurts. Even after some of us make it out of poverty, we can't get the respect we deserve for having used our intellect to do so. I'm Thinking on behalf of a whole people when I speak of this, not just myself.
Peace.
"Btw, that's the reason why you should always ask a woman for directions. A man will either tell you the correct direction OR he will (unintentionally) make one up, when pressed to give an answer. That's how we men are programmed."
Wut the hell is this?^^
" KNOWLEDGE is different to OPINIONS. Knowledge is based on facts, opinions are based on personal preferences/prejudices/misinformation/ignorance."
There is no comparison between Knowledge and opinion. In a perfect world, you couldn't have one without the other. Knowledge is not based on fact either. Knowledge is based on what perceived to be fact. Just because you heard it or read it doesn't make it true. Which is why research is so important. Real research, like what scientists and historians do.
The reason I said that it's painful to see such a thing is because, whenever someone works their way out of the worst of situations-rappers in particular-it seems as if the press tries to ridicule them, to their face. Bill O'Reilly comes to mind. He had Cam'ron and Damon Dash on there once, and he opened up by saying, "Now we're gonna have a nice, intelligent conversation here, gentleman, alright?" I don't watch O'Reilly, but I'm sure he doesn't open up that way when he has other guests on. Obviously Cam'ron and Dash are smart. They used what was available to them to work their way up out of poverty. But the host of that program didn't really give a phuck, did he?
THAT kind of blind disrespect is what hurts. Even after some of us make it out of poverty, we can't get the respect we deserve for having used our intellect to do so. I'm Thinking on behalf of a whole people when I speak of this, not just myself.
Peace.
L
lilro
New member
.............
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Ill Rocka
IBI & Purple Reign
There are couple things that make your arguments not false per se, but incomplete.
That's where intelligence comes in to play, the way you process incoming information. Are you going to take in any information as truth or are you able to filter and built off of said information. Are you able to connect the dots, how's your lateral thought capacity etc.
Using what's available to work your way out of poverty does not automatically make you smart. Just look at the majority of rappers/athletes/painters/Musicvideo vixens/skrippers etc. I don't actually think Cam and/or Dash are all that smart, they know how to seize an oppurtunity though, I think if you'd test their intelligence they would be average.
But like I've said in my other post, If your social surroundings are predominantly below average, average becomes above average. This also works the other way around.
The difference between Camron/Dame and O'Reilly is not about intelligence but about sophistication, which is often linked to intelligence. It's a trick from O'Reilly to immediately put himself above his interviewee implying his guest would have trouble keeping the interview civilized. It's cheap, then again, O'Reilly's interview tactics are almost always cheap.
RedBeerd
New member
About testing thier Intelligence, I agree. But how can one not admit that they were in possession of some sort of above-average (relatively, as you mentioned) mental resource when presented with an opportunity? They may not be Intelligent, but they were smart enough to take the actions needed to obtain a certain degree of financial success, no?
Peace.