no, you are just blinkered
poietic level (choice of the composer) | neutral level (physical definition) | esthesic level (perceptive judgment) | |
music | musical sound | sound of the harmonic spectrum | agreeable sound |
nonmusic | noise (nonmusical) | noise (complex sound) | disagreeable noise |
However, in the view of semiologist Jean-Jacques Nattiez, "just as music is whatever people choose to recognize as such, noise is whatever is recognized as disturbing, unpleasant, or both" (Nattiez 1990, 47–48).
According to musicologist Jean-Jacques Nattiez: "The border between music and noise is always culturally defined—which implies that, even within a single society, this border does not always pass through the same place; in short, there is rarely a consensus.... By all accounts there is no single and intercultural universal concept defining what music might be" (Nattiez 1990, 47–8 and 55).
no, you are just blinkered
the following suggests just how blinkered you are
20th-century composer John Cage thought that any sound can be music, saying, for example, "There is no noise, only sound." (John Cage Quotes (Author of Silence), John Cage - Wikiquote, Cage and Silence,
)
Musicologist Jean-Jacques Nattiez summarizes the relativist, post-modern viewpoint: "The border between music and noise is always culturally defined—which implies that, even within a single society, this border does not always pass through the same place; in short, there is rarely a consensus ... By all accounts there is no single and intercultural universal concept defining what music might be."(Nattiez, Jean-Jacques (1990). Music and discourse: toward a semiology of music. Carolyn Abbate, translator. Princeton University Press. pp. 48, 55. ISBN 0-691-02714-5.)
Mmmmm John Cage, one of the early pioneers of the turntable as an instrument
again you reject non-pitched forms of music because they do not meet your narrow, blinkered view of the world: accept that you need to evolve musically, emotionally and intellectually before you can stand by your words (you may even come to recognise that they are wrong or at least unusually narrowly constrained) Also interesting that you rejected other more encompassing definitions in that same article
@infradead: thanks for the download of the Art of Noise - sure I have it somewhere but as drives die and backups get buried, always nice to find a new copy to have.....
poietic level (choice of the composer) | neutral level (physical definition) | esthesic level (perceptive judgment) | |
music | musical sound | sound of the harmonic spectrum | agreeable sound |
nonmusic | noise (nonmusical) | noise (complex sound) | disagreeable noise |
Lol this is mainman's table not mine. All that other shit is cool, things being subjective and all that and it cant really be defined, those are his thoughts...but the element of harmonic sound is in his definition and consistently in all those other ones. Thats defines it for him, that's what defines it for me too. If it aint there then its not music. As seen in HIS chart. YOUR man.
poietic level
(choice of the composer)
neutral level
(physical definition)esthesic level
(perceptive judgment)music musical sound
sound of the
harmonic
spectrum
agreeable sound
nonmusic noise
(nonmusical)
noise
(complex sound)disagreeable
noise
" By 'poietic' I understand describing the link among the composer's intentions, his creative procedures, his mental schemas, and the result of this collection of strategies; that is, the components that go into the work's material embodiment. Poietic description thus also deals with a quite special form of hearing (Varese called it 'the interior ear'): what the composer hears while imagining the work's sonorous results, or while experimenting at the piano, or with tape."
"By 'esthesic' I understand not merely the artificially attentive hearing of a musicologist, but the description of perceptive behaviors within a given population of listeners; that is how this or that aspect of sonorous reality is captured by their perceptive strategies."
The neutral level is that of the physical "trace", (Saussere's sound-image, a sonority, a score), created and interpreted by the esthesic level (which corresponds to a perceptive definition; the perceptive and/or "social" construction definitions below) and the poietic level (which corresponds to a creative, as in compositional, definition; the organizational and social construction definitions below).
Table describing types of definitions of music
Poietic Process.........................................Esthesic Process
Composer (Producer) → Sound (Trace) ← Listener (Receiver)
"The border between music and noise is always culturally defined—which implies that, even within a single society, this border does not always pass through the same place; in short, there is rarely a consensus.... By all accounts there is no single and intercultural universal concept defining what music might be"
_____________________________________________________________________________________I'm no muscian, i don't make music. I bait my audience and pull them in with master pieces. I guess you could call me a masterbater.
---------------Yah but look at his explanations of it.
its broken down like this.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and then explained like this.
and then he also says this
which leads me to think that what he is saying is that its subjective. it depends on the composers intent and the listeners perception. so for you its not music but for other people it is.
so that you could have a composer using non musical noises and perceived esthetically as music.