Are hip hop producers really musicians?

RicochetRockNice said:
So primarily would you say it's based on perception
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in communications theory everything is about what the receiver perceives the senders message to be

- information theory suggests that the message is encoded with redundancy to allow the intent of the message to be understood

- in the end if you do not have the key to decode the message (i.e the prerequisite knowledge of signs and symbols used by the sender) then you will misunderstand and misinterpret and misrepresent the message to other receivers

i.e. perception is the only certain measure of what the message may be, but it may not be an accurate interpretation of the message
 
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This may need to be a sticky.

Anything that we classify as subjective or aesthetic based will never reach a definitive conclusion on meaning

This is turning into a hermeneutic circle. Round and round we go.
 
If you're making music as in, you live with it and evolve, I would call you a musician.
 
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A Musician is someone who can give an impromptu performance anywhere, if you have to program something first you're a programmer, hip hop producers are as much musicians as every chick on istagram is a model.
 
Griffin Avid said:
I just confused on how the OP posted this....
Are hip hop producers really musicians?

And you all are going back and forth about the definition of music
..instead of the understood/acceptable/cultural/traditional/general DEFINITION OF MUSICIAN.

And so saying I make music therefore I'm a musician is the equivalent of making a stool and saying you're a carpenter.
I know this and everyone else knows this.

If you tell ANYONE that you're a musician, they will ask what do you play?
And you (If YOU ARE A TRUE MUSICIAN) will answer 'a keyboard or Drum Pads'.
If you don't have a clue you will name a STUDIO TOOL, like a sampler or turntable.

If you EVER use the recording of someone else, THEY are the MUSICIAN(s) and you are reinterpreting/remixing/re-contextualizing THEIR MUSIC to create YOUR music.
That does not guarantee you are a musician. You can be creative/technical/clever/skillful and still not be a musician.

The true answer is DEPENDS and that depends on HOW that 'hip hop producer' makes his music.
Not whether or not WHAT he makes is considered music.

Most of us are ELECTRONIC MUSICIANS. That is, music made with the use of electronics.
i.e. COMPUTER aided. Meaning WHAT YOU CREATE MUSIC WITH USES ELECTRICITY.

99.9% of the definitions about Musicians involve skill/talent with a musical instrument. Instrument and NOT TOOL.
Musical instruments at their root DO NOT Need electricity.
Electric Guitar --- acoustic Guitar....
Electronic Drum set --- drums.
"Drum Machine" includes the machine and the inherent PROGRAMMING.


And you know the difference between making music by playing stuff and making music by programming stuff.
And you also know how much help all your studio tools are giving you along the way and that will impact the two key words
SKILL and TALENT. And I don't mean in a subjective 'his beats are hot tho' kind of way.
I repeat: you know the difference between making music by playing stuff and making music by programming stuff.

That's why the answer is depends.
There's lots of ways to make stuff generally accepted as GREAT MUSIC without being a musician.
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Yeah the thread got derailed. Thanks for your contribution tho!
 
of course they are....real producers any means... in the means of those who don't just sample everything they make and add some drums and hi hats to it and call it a day. Look at Scott Storch, Timbaland, and Mannie Fresh to name imo the best on a beat. Especially Storch! Ever see his videos playing? Dude is a mastermind on piano and timbaland can play the keys and drums as well i hear he's pretty good a guitar also, and Fresh that dude is the king of the drum pattern and midi. These people aren't in an orchestra or playing symphonies, but real producers are real musicians.
 
Always HI-pass said:
A Musician is someone who can give an impromptu performance anywhere, if you have to program something first you're a programmer, hip hop producers are as much musicians as every chick on istagram is a model.
Click to expand...

So if you take the violin away from the violinist how are they going to give you that impromptu performance? With their fingers? Thats how hip hop instruments work. You have to "tune" it with a sound. Once the sounds are in it, they can be played out right there in front of you.




He had to practice his routine, his rhythm, and train, just like a violinist would before they play live in front of an audience.
Just because he had to plug in and load up shoudnt make a difference.
 
5 gallon Home Depot buckets aren't musical instruments until someone flips them over and plays them like drums. I'd answer the question yes!
 
McLovin Beatz said:
So if you take the violin away from the violinist how are they going to give you that impromptu performance? With their fingers? Thats how hip hop instruments work. You have to "tune" it with a sound. Once the sounds are in it, they can be played out right there in front of you.




He had to practice his routine, his rhythm, and train, just like a violinist would before they play live in front of an audience.
Just because he had to plug in and load up shoudnt make a difference.
Click to expand...


A violin player can accompany a song she's never heard before, she can play a standard and make people immediately sing along she can take requests. Can a guy on an MPC do that?
 
Olie said:
You gotta go out to the streets and produce that special product for your audience.[/QUOTE


Thank you your point is well noted and well taken I'm known for doing
just that taking it to the streets currently working on studio renovations
and my new catalog in the studio as we speak.

Red Spyder and Rsonist form the Heat Makers have judged one of my beat
battles in the streets when you're in a fight you can't be afraid to take a
HIT or give a HIT or make one no fluke here I go in and I get it in and get
it done.

When you're dealing with people they do not believe you are who you say
you are until you put the $#!% on the plate and smush it in their faces
then they have a new found appreciation for who you are and what you do
after you KILL IT!

I live to perform people like to work with me because of my work ethic
that's why they come back to my studio I always have other musicians
and producers on hand that I work with and accomplished well traveled
musicians as well who are lethal in their own right and I always put out
professional product this is what I'm noted for I also go into the HOOD
and see what other camps are up to well known camps can't name no
names and I don't need a HOOD PASS.

Ricochet Rock Nice is not just a name it's a brand.
Click to expand...
 
Always HI-pass said:
A violin player can accompany a song she's never heard before, she can play a standard and make people immediately sing along she can take requests. Can a guy on an MPC do that?
Click to expand...

So basically your definition of musician, is someone that can play any chords or notes and nothing else? I dont subscribe to this.
So if someone requests a song from her that's straight drums, then what? She gonna tap on the side of the violin? She gonna pluck the strings?

A singer uses her voice to create music, but if somebody in the crowd requests her to perform Nas "I gave you Power" and she cant use her voice to do it, that makes her a non musician? Hogwash.
 
Griffin Avid said:
I just confused on how the OP posted this....
[h=2]Are hip hop producers really musicians?[/h]And you all are going back and forth about the definition of music
..instead of the understood/acceptable/cultural/traditional/general DEFINITION OF MUSICIAN.

And so saying I make music therefore I'm a musician is the equivalent of making a stool and saying you're a carpenter.
I know this and everyone else knows this.

If you tell ANYONE that you're a musician, they will ask what do you play?
And you (If YOU ARE A TRUE MUSICIAN) will answer 'a keyboard or Drum Pads'.
If you don't have a clue you will name a STUDIO TOOL, like a sampler or turntable.

If you EVER use the recording of someone else, THEY are the MUSICIAN(s) and you are reinterpreting/remixing/re-contextualizing THEIR MUSIC to create YOUR music.
That does not guarantee you are a musician. You can be creative/technical/clever/skillful and still not be a musician.

The true answer is DEPENDS and that depends on HOW that 'hip hop producer' makes his music.
Not whether or not WHAT he makes is considered music.

Most of us are ELECTRONIC MUSICIANS. That is, music made with the use of electronics.
i.e. COMPUTER aided. Meaning WHAT YOU CREATE MUSIC WITH USES ELECTRICITY.

99.9% of the definitions about Musicians involve skill/talent with a musical instrument. Instrument and NOT TOOL.
Musical instruments at their root DO NOT Need electricity.
Electric Guitar --- acoustic Guitar....
Electronic Drum set --- drums.
"Drum Machine" includes the machine and the inherent PROGRAMMING.


And you know the difference between making music by playing stuff and making music by programming stuff.
And you also know how much help all your studio tools are giving you along the way and that will impact the two key words
SKILL and TALENT. And I don't mean in a subjective 'his beats are hot tho' kind of way.
I repeat: you know the difference between making music by playing stuff and making music by programming stuff.

That's why the answer is depends.
There's lots of ways to make stuff generally accepted as GREAT MUSIC without being a musician.
Click to expand...

So by your definition(sincerely asking), is a vocalist a "musician"? I'd say they were. Boyz II Men, Mariah Carey, Etta James, Christina Aguilera, ect? Are these performers not musicians because they don't touch an actual instrument, and if they are, how is someone on a drum machine not when a drum machine can just as easily be categorized as an "instrument" as a voice?

Are the guys who play buckets on the side of the street "musicians" or do they have to replace those buckets with drums first? What if I use a drum machine but I'm convincing enough that you think it's real drums? What if I once played drums but now do everything within a program? What if I never played drums, do everything within a program, but display more talent in the finished sequence than average real drummer could?
 
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