Anyone else sick of Lord Jamar?

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I like Lord Jamar, not as a rapper, but for saying what's been on alot of people's minds. Real talk isn't always the most politically correct. The only people butthurt by his comments are white people, really.
I agree with all of his talking points:
1. White people are guests in hiphop
2. White people have tried to rewrite hiphop history numerous times (see Jazz, Blues, and Rock for examples of blatant whitewashing...hell, the reason the Rolling Stones and Eric Clapton even exists in music was because of the influence they wholesale lifted from the Delta bluesmen. Shlt, read any article where Little Richard starts talking his founder-of-rock-and-roll spiel and read how quickly the writers shut him down. Look how rock music treats the legacy of the real daddy of rock and roll Ike Turner.)
3. Gay imagery is weird
4. Dudes wearing dresses is weird
...and probably whatever else is on his mind in regards to hiphop culture.
Is he being exploited by Vlad....OF COURSE! That's the funny irony about all this.
 
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Nightshade said:
Sporadic and localized at best, not a nationwide trend.

Read
http://www.urban.org/uploadedPDF/410437.pdf

edit to add overall chart

794px-Violent_crime_rates_by_gender_1973-2003.jpg
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So you're saying then that Chicago was more violent in the 70's then it is today?
Damn that means they must of had like 4-5 murders a day...

it's crazy to think that would even be possible, and in the 70's for example, crimes where done for different reasons. Black people where still treated like trash, well like more trash, poverty was probably higher and segregation as well. The crimes the youth do today are senseless, just this past thursday in my hood, this man came back to the bar and shot the bouncer 3x just because he kicked him out.

I think even the criminals back in the day who committed crimes had some morals and code, you always hear OG's saying that...the young guys are savages
 
MajorMusicNYC said:
Maybe you are just more shielded in today's society. See I spent many years in the streets and won't say much more on that, but I know that the AK47 was very popular in my neck of the woods growing up.

Still as violent as I knew it was back in those days, it has become more based on stupidity today which makes these days in time more dangerous to me. Screw the types of guns because people kill people.
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I feel ya, and things are different in different areas, NYC will see a higher violent crime rate than say Rochester simply due to density of population.

Like I said it wasn't meant as anything personal it just seemed an odd statement. When I was growing up it was the Uzi 9, AK and shotguns as weapons of choice.

TDOT said:
So you're saying then that Chicago was more violent in the 70's then it is today?
Damn that means they must of had like 4-5 murders a day...

it's crazy to think that would even be possible, and in the 70's for example, crimes where done for different reasons. Black people where still treated like trash, well like more trash, poverty was probably higher and segregation as well. The crimes the youth do today are senseless, just this past thursday in my hood, this man came back to the bar and shot the bouncer 3x just because he kicked him out.

I think even the criminals back in the day who committed crimes had some morals and code, you always hear OG's saying that...the young guys are savages
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You would be surprised when you start looking at stats how it all adds up.
Look up Chicago during the 20s and 30s then compare it todays stats, I seem to remember (been a while) that it was more violent back then than it is today.
 
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Nightshade said:
You would be surprised when you start looking at stats how it all adds up.
Look up Chicago during the 20s and 30s then compare it todays stats, I seem to remember (been a while) that it was more violent back then than it is today.
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For sure though in the 20s and 30s there was more violence, but again a different type of violence. It was a different time, America was building itself, the law was weak, illegal activity was a lot different. Immigration was crazy too.

But today is not a same type of violence. There's a different between back then blowing up a distillery vs today riding your bike to the park and shooting the hell out of it and hitting every and anything.
 
TDOT said:
For sure though in the 20s and 30s there was more violence, but again a different type of violence. It was a different time, America was building itself, the law was weak, illegal activity was a lot different. Immigration was crazy too.

But today is not a same type of violence. There's a different between back then blowing up a distillery vs today riding your bike to the park and shooting the hell out of it and hitting every and anything.
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Violence is violence, it is no more or less brutal today than it was back then. Yes the circumstances were different but it all centered around illegal drugs the same as it does in modern times. It all affects people the same, to say one is worse than another is marginalizing what was done, it is also a bit of revisionist history since there is so much romanticizing of that period of time..."gangsters with the heart of gold" that we see so often in movies, make no mistake those guys were stone cold killers and sociopaths just the same as today.
 
Black vs. White. East vs. West. Who invented Blues? Who invented Jazz? Who invented Rock? Who invented Hip-Hop?

For someone who is a serious student of the music, who also happens to be of multi-cultural/ethnic heritage, this crusty old stuff gets stale, man. Just old and crusty and played-out. Lots of half-truths and misinformation in these arguments too...

A lot of these questions have been talked about ad nauseum since the dawn of popular music. Someone in this thread mentioned Jazz. Leonard Feather originally designed the famous "Blindfold Tests" to prove that a good player is a good player, period. I wonder how many of y'all could tell the difference between a white or black unknown/underground rapper or producer, _without any prior knowledge or photos, using only your ears_?... Might be fun to try for a few of you prejudiced/bigoted/racist/whatever-you-want-to-callits... Music consumption is primarily a _listening_ experience, image and video/media factors aside.

GJ
 
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no doubt if define violence it is what it is...but senseless violence is different then just violence.

Those guys back then had a purpose, like you said they where sophisticated, they ran huge operations and committed violent crimes. They where also grown men...

You got kids in Chicago 14 years old with multiple bodies on them...what operation are they running? what did they kill for? what did they gain from it? nothing....

At least those guys back then killed a for a reason, whether it was for political reasons or to muscle someone else out to get more money there was reason. They had families and things to lose at the end of the day.

There's no reason why I kid should roll through the park and wet it up and have other kids laying dead on the floor. It's really not the same, and a lot of older guys who go by that and swear they're time was that bad get a quick reality check when they try and run the youngins out.

In that new documentary about chicago, they made of point of mentioning all the OG's that come out of jail and try and come back for what was once there's are getting bullied by kids that are 14-20 years old and they want nothing to do with them cause they're too wild and savage, it's actually fun to them, they'll tell you that themselves.

All crime today is more senseless then it was, we know better, we have opportunities they didn't have back then.
I'm from Jamaica, which puts any stats in the US to shame in terms of violence, the police can't even do nothing they'll catch it too. Jamaica has always been violent but ever since the late 90s every time I'd call back there they'd mention how violent the new generation is, how senseless their crimes are.

it's just a lot different I think, in the 20's I think i'd feel safer walking in chicago then i would today, I'm pretty sure no gangsters or mobsters would try and do me harm, because I'm a non factor in their circle.
I could walk down chicago and get lit up just because...
 
So to recap. Riff Raff killed hip hop. Thanks, white people!

In case you guys can't tell, I'm joking. We can't blame white people for Riff Raff, we have to blame crack...meth...whatever makes...that.
 
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I always worry about summary statistics as shown in that graph - number of murders by gender per 1000 people is a summary notion, not a literal statement of the number of murders committed.

These numbers as presented are meaningless because we do not know what the population density was in each year nor how the ethnic profile of the population has changed over time - were there more African-Americans in the population in the 70's or is that truer of the 2000's? These questions offer far greater insight into what is actually happening than the graph does.

Far more telling (and informative) would be breakdowns by choice of weapon, location, gender of victim, gang affiliation if any (not the actual gang , but was the victim a gang member of some sort), ethnicity of perpetrator, ethnicity of victim using the actual numbers rather than a number per quantum of population
 
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Nightshade said:
Violence is violence, it is no more or less brutal today than it was back then. Yes the circumstances were different but it all centered around illegal drugs the same as it does in modern times. It all affects people the same, to say one is worse than another is marginalizing what was done, it is also a bit of revisionist history since there is so much romanticizing of that period of time..."gangsters with the heart of gold" that we see so often in movies, make no mistake those guys were stone cold killers and sociopaths just the same as today.
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This right here. Straight up true. My parents will tell me stories of when they grow up that were wild. My mom once knew a guy named Flip Williams who killed 3 people. Ran from the law, broke into Juvie to kill a witness and had a hostage situation at the Juvie Center. Then immediately after that told me that kids these days are way more violent.... smh
btw here's the wiki stub on the dude Willie Williams (murderer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Rick Rubin helped start start Hip Hop, whites get a pass. Anybody got a problem tell them to contact BiggRome and I'll tell them I gave an executive order to issue passes to anyone that likes Hip Hop music.
 
helped start hiphop in what way??....
would it not have gotten started regardless....
would it not have been around if he didnt come n the picture...

-im just startin sh_t... u can ignore me for the rest of this thread...
i just wasted 30 secs of your life......lls
 
Spaceman_Ant said:
helped start hiphop in what way??....
would it not have gotten started regardless....
would it not have been around if he didnt come n the picture...

-im just startin sh_t... u can ignore me for the rest of this thread...
i just wasted 30 secs of your life......lls
Click to expand...

Yo bytch look like a boogawolf...
 
Spaceman_Ant said:
helped start hiphop in what way??....
would it not have gotten started regardless....
would it not have been around if he didnt come n the picture...

-im just startin sh_t... u can ignore me for the rest of this thread...
i just wasted 30 secs of your life......lls
Click to expand...

Could the same not be said of...blacks with our influences to rock? Rick Rubin IS ABSOLUTELY a huge factor in the developmental foundation of what we call hip hop music today. Without him, there would be no Def Jam. Without Def Jam, hip hop would NOT have had close to the run it has.

Next we can get into how disco had impact on hip hop's foundation. No ideas original. I've gotten to the point I know who did what in which order, my kids will know, not because I drill it in their head, but because I'm always playing diverse music in my home like my parents did that made me understand.

I hate everything has to have racial boundaries. I can live with Eminem existing. I'd hope the same way white people should be able to live with Michael Jackson being the "King of Pop". End of the day, we're all human beings.

I just don't have time to analyze race with everything. Life is bigger than that to me. I know people of my own and separate race who I call my brother for life like I know people from both ends of the spectrum cross me wrong I've never encountered a white man I knew wanted to kill me RIGHT THEN. LOL. Plenty of times I've known it was that real amongst people of my own race(Not everyone will share the same story, just mine, and i've had ALOT of people want to kill me, lol). Only race I don't f**k with at all is those stinking good for nothing Argonians Pushing drugs is all they're good for.

Someone's gonna respond like "I got a sister from Argentina, how dare you!!!"
 
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I definitely don't want to offend any of you and I surely don't want an internet arguement, but there are mistakes in this post. There is alot of media based Hip Hop history being displayed that is not really true. The term Hip Hop is being thrown around too loosely in this post and is being confused with commercial rap music industry as on many forums, due to the age of the members participating on the forums. Alot what is being expressed in this post proves Jamar's point. Hip Hop started in or around 1973 and can't be accurately described historically if you don't start with the Zulu Nation and Afrika Bambaataa. Rick Rubin was a factor in Def Jam as a label, but not as a foundation in what we call Hip Hop today. Def Jam was definitely a major factor in getting music to the masses. Jazzy Jay, who was with the Zulu Nation, was behind the foundational sound of Def Jam but somehow got written out of the history of Def Jam when presented to the masses. It was his knowlege of the breaks and samples that built the foundation (Even the rock guitar sounds and samples) came from Jazzy's crates and he was influenced by Bamm. Check out Crate Diggers Jazzy Jay's episode. I won't get into the psychosocial part of what Jamar is saying nor will I get into the fundamental/key elements of the 5% but Hip Hop as a culture and its music started in or around 1973. I hope there is enough maturity on this forum for me to present this without a barrage of impulsive defense mechanisms. Peace be with you..................Rob Mixx
 
^^^I think you misread what I said to go on to say EXACTLY what i said. It's like me saying "this guy put the first apple pies in grocery stores" and having you come in and say "but this is the guy who invented the apples".

Def Jam is absolutely a factor in the foundation of what we call hip hop today. As was even later labels like No Limit or Interscope. I never implied the were the only factors or the originators of anything. Rick Rubin's contributions did push hip hop to become the commercially successful genre it is today.
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
^^^I think you misread what I said to go on to say EXACTLY what i said. It's like me saying "this guy put the first apple pies in grocery stores" and having you come in and say "but this is the guy who invented the apples".

Def Jam is absolutely a factor in the foundation of what we call hip hop today. As was even later labels like No Limit or Interscope. I never implied the were the only factors or the originators of anything. Rick Rubin's contributions did push hip hop to become the commercially successful genre it is today.
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Rick Rubin is not really as big a factor as ur making him out to be...Jay-Z is my favorite artist so I love Rick and credit him with a lot...but not all that
 
Rick Rubin was a college roommate of Russell Simmons (I believe), and a co-founder of Def Jam (fact). Long before Jay-Z. Why is that hard to understand?

GJ
 
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