Reason 4?

L. A. Stone said:
It looks like you're advising Rewire over VST because of stability concerns. By this logic, you must believe that rewire somehow makes the host sequencer more stable. The way I see it, if Reason is the most stable program ever made, the minute you rewire it to a host, then Reason just became only as stable as the host that's sequencing it. If the host goes down, the entire project goes down, including Reason. Reason's amazing stability is completely and certainly compromised by the fact that it's being connected to another program that is less stable. So, if you are advising the use of rewire, then you can't even mention Reason's legendary stability.
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Im saying if u dont like what reason has to offer either use something else or rewire it. I personally like Reason as is. It could use a feature here and there but its nothing to sit back and complain about day after day like most people who don't even use the program or like the program do. If you feel reason is limited fine dont use it. If u feel rewire is a hassle (I feel its a hassle sometimes too) dont use it. If u prefer everything else over reason than use everything else. Reason imo is really just a sound module and they threw a sequencer onboard so it could be used standalone but I dont feel that Props ever intended for it to be used outside of rewire. There are sequencers out there with more features than Reason will ever offer. But few of them have the same sound capabilities as reason does for the price.
 
fireman_x said:
If you're fine with your setup and hate new technology, don't try to drag the rest of us down that want to advance.
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Being happy with my setup has nothing to do with hating New Technology, I update my studio daily, just purchased a $1500 avalon pre. It has to do with realizing everything doesn't need an overhauled makeover.

You decide to go to using Live, guess what, you can still use reason alongside it. I've never made a whole beat inside of reason alone, I'm too advanced of a producer to use a peice of equipment like a toy. I use it for what it's meant to be used for.

Maybe if we all had the sense to accomodate Reason into our setup rather than relying on it to be a standalone device there wouldn't be so much biching about a sound rack being nothing more than a sound rack.

I don't argue stability issues, my PC runs everything on the market. I don't argue any of that crap. I just recognize the fact I paid 3 times as much for my Triton Rack, 3 times as much for my MPC, and Just as much for Vsts. Why? Not for all this other crap, but for sounds. If reason was a Standalone/Vst everyone would praise it like Kontakt or Hypersonic, but since it's a Standalone/Rewire device, I guess it doesn't translate the same way in your eyes.

If it's that real why you biching about reason, you could use all that energy to tell us about the alternative that leads us to the promise land. Oh yeah, that was the Z3ta+:rolleyes:
 
fireman_x said:
First off no one is saying that Reason should add so many features that you never get any work done, but Reason is clearly lacking in several aspects. Tests have been conducted that prove that the sound engine is not up to par and if Reason has it all why upgrade? I'm sure you will, just like you upgraded to 3.0, and obviously 2.5 was not enough since so many people upgraded. If you claim that Reason is enough for you simply don't upgrade, but I know you and so many others that claim that Reason is more that enough will. It usually seems to be older guys that had to work solely with hardware that claim that Reason is so great, however I've only produced with software, so although I may be a bit "spoiled" in comparison I still want more. Just as you should strive to continually improve your production, you should also continually improve your tools.
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I upgraded to 3.0 because of workflow reasons and when I speak of reason being more than enough I am speaking on 3.0 2.5 left a lot to be desired and during the time I was using 2.5 I had tried almost every program on the market. Fruity Loops (thought it had very backwards logic to it. To me it didnt have a good workflow atleast not for how I work anyway. and it seemed very mouse dependant I dont like using a mouse much) Acid (loved this program but very mouse dependant. learned a lot here tho) Cubase (good program but I lost a lot of material due to stability. Cubase is solid and for a while I was using Cubase and Reason rewired because I didnt have any other sounds at the time. Live (I like live but it ate up too many resources on my pc so I gave it up. Ive recently tried Live again and I like it but I cant get ideas down in it nearly as quick or easy as I can in Reason) Sonar (I didnt like making beats in it at all. However its great for audio editing, recording and mixing audio and I currently have it in my setup for when I have random audio recording or remixes), Pro Tools ( I didnt like how version 6.9 handled midi tracks but the new instrument tracks feature was just what the doctor ordered. I really like Pro Tools and could see myself using it on a regular basis but I don't want to buy it when I know I would only use it on occassion and would only use it in the same way I would sonar or for tracking when I need Pro Tools sessions. But for that I have friends who have Pro Tools who will track it for me). I hated Cool Edit and Saw studio. I wont even touch on those. However I will state that I did like Cool Edits audio editor. It was good but I like Soundforge better. So to me Reason is the tool of choice. Mostly because I didn't care for the others tho if I had to choose a Daw and ditch Reason today I would go with Pro Tools over anything else and vsts and hope not to lose material or crash. I am in no rush to upgrade Reason but I do like to see what else is on the market to make sure I am not missing out on great features. Thus far everything I've tried has left me to desire Reason.
 
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deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
If it's that real why you biching about reason, you could use all that energy to tell us about the alternative that leads us to the promise land. Oh yeah, that was the Z3ta+:rolleyes:
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You still don't get it? Just about any major synth VST that has been released over the past 5 years trumps both of Reason's synths. I used Zeta+ as an example, what if I had said Absynth or Atmosphere, what in Reason matches up to those programs? Most of what I want from Reason is not even centered around new devices, but fixing up what has already been implemented (mainly the sequencer). There are several types of synthesis but Reason only covers 3, how is there no need for improvement?

I also don't use Reason by itself, I have Cubase and used Acid (ver. 4) in the past. I'm not simply sitting here complaining, the fact is that if Reason does not improve they will disappear. People like myself are not about to upgrade again when most of our requests have been ignored.

Also as L. A. Stone Reason was touted as an "all in one solution" even though it never was, and now the competition has caught up. Once again since you don't seem to get it, I never claimed that Zeta itself was better, but Live might be. I see that you would rather try and continue to attack me based on your own false misconception, rather than address anything substantial.

There are things that I want to do in Reason that I simply cannot right now, but I never said that Reason was not a good product. I thought it was the most incredible piece of software when I got it a few years ago, but now it simply is not holding its weight. There is no perfect piece of software, but claiming that I am "biching" (sic) simply asking for some features that the competition (within the same price range) has makes no sense. Here's a link to a forum filled with people that are always "biching" about Reason like me.

I would also like to know if you guys that claim that Reason is more than enough produce more than one style of music.

Xabiton: Most of the issues of stability can be solved if you have hardware that can handle your software and a clean OS. It seems that so many people have issues because they have ancient computers or they have viruses and malware messing up their systems, eliminate these two issues and you have most of your problems eliminated. I will admit that Cubase will seemingly crash for no reason but it has always allowed me to save before it shut down.
 
fireman_x said:
You still don't get it? Just about any major synth VST that has been released over the past 5 years trumps both of Reason's synths. I used Zeta+ as an example, what if I had said Absynth or Atmosphere, what in Reason matches up to those programs? Most of what I want from Reason is not even centered around new devices, but fixing up what has already been implemented (mainly the sequencer). There are several types of synthesis but Reason only covers 3, how is there no need for improvement?

I also don't use Reason by itself, I have Cubase and used Acid (ver. 4) in the past. I'm not simply sitting here complaining, the fact is that if Reason does not improve they will disappear. People like myself are not about to upgrade again when most of our requests have been ignored.

Also as L. A. Stone Reason was touted as an "all in one solution" even though it never was, and now the competition has caught up. Once again since you don't seem to get it, I never claimed that Zeta itself was better, but Live might be. I see that you would rather try and continue to attack me based on your own false misconception, rather than address anything substantial.

There are things that I want to do in Reason that I simply cannot right now, but I never said that Reason was not a good product. I thought it was the most incredible piece of software when I got it a few years ago, but now it simply is not holding its weight. There is no perfect piece of software, but claiming that I am "biching" (sic) simply asking for some features that the competition (within the same price range) has makes no sense. Here's a link to a forum filled with people that are always "biching" about Reason like me.

I would also like to know if you guys that claim that Reason is more than enough produce more than one style of music.
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how can one tool not be used for any kind of music. the tools themselves dont make the music. and people on the reason forums complain about reason not having certian features all the time so yea they might fade away but personally I love it the way it is.

fireman_x said:
Most of the issues of stability can be solved if you have hardware that can handle your software and a clean OS. It seems that so many people have issues because they have ancient computers or they have viruses and malware messing up their systems, eliminate these two issues and you have most of your problems eliminated. I will admit that Cubase will seemingly crash for no reason but it has always allowed me to save before it shut down.
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im not sure what a clean os is. I have windows xp and the disk that came with it when I bought my pc. Cubase did crash a lot on me and when it didnt crash the files would go corrupt. I was going to sell a track i made in cubase and when i went to cubase to track the session to cd i couldnt because the file went corrupt that was the last time i used cubase for anything. I need something that is reliable and I have never lost anything in Reason ever. I trust Reason it is my right hand when making music. I just know that there are other tools out there that can be just as effective or "even more so" but nothing atleast not for me has ever matched up with reason's workflow, stability, ease of use, and good sounds inside of one package for this price. With Reason I feel I am set for life.

and I think after this thread Props owes me a check.
 
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fireman_x said:
I would also like to know if you guys that claim that Reason is more than enough produce more than one style of music.
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Touche'

Seriously, I can admit when I'm wrong. After reading your last post I understand what you're saying. I do hip hop, pop, rnb, but was referred to reason a few years back by a big techno DJ out here. It used to be the ultimate program for electronic, trance, DnB, ect.

Often I get on FP and assume I'm talking to exclusively hip hop producers in which case all we need in an upgrade is more presets and it's worth the $100 extra dollars. But you're right, for pure genres of electronic music Props have given you nothing but presets(which I'm sure you won't use).

I get your point:cheers:

Also when we're talking other genres, that also solidifys your post that even freeware vsts have caught up with reason. But it's still great for pop, lol.
 
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It's simple ...Glacial updates= people whining.

All props has to do is go "hey lookie here a new EQ!" every few months, and people will stay off thier back, lol.

I guess thats what the combinator is for though...So they don't have to, hehe.

But seriously Props goes under the Radar for to long.
Look at how people at KVR go nuts for EnergyXT.
The app had updates almost as often as Reaper, and when Jorgen was ready to start work on EXT2 he completely rewrote the app from the ground up in a year.
Reaper is another one where the users are fanatics, because thier Developer Justin Frankle release updates sometimes daily.
I remember at one point he released updates like 9 days in a row!
And yes there are still people that complain even about these apps, but the point is all Props has to do is throw the Reason users a bone now, and then and the griping, and complaining will subside.....Not completely, because there is always someone who thinks an app should do something it does'nt.
 
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rando said:
I have'nt used the full version of reason...but I've used the demo...judging by it and pics of the squencer.......it does look like garbage.
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just checked out your beats~~

what you using to make your beat???

playstation or nintendo???

:bigeyes:
 
OK, for the sake of discussion, let's say by some miracle, the props do get around to adding VST and Audio support. Why then would someone choose Reason over something like Cubase, Sonar, or Ableton? What would Reason then bring to the table that these other apps don't - and for whatever that is, would Reason still bring it to the table after these highly requested features are added?

I don't believe that Reason will ever get these features in a way that would retain what makes Reason special, if at all. Those who want those features would be better off ending their misery and moving on to one of those apps that already offer more.


cycloptic
 
I can see some kind of an audio recording device. for maybe Reason 5 or sumthing. (if ever)
But if it would be implemented, it would not be for the matter of "nice features to be in the package" as rather a "our userbase demands it thingie". Recording audio along Reason tracks in realtime is actually what f* Rewire is there for, isn't it? (correct me if I'm wrong).

Along feature demands:
Just like with FL somehow. FL & Reason would still be sort of on par if Imageline would not listen more closely & at the end implement all the stuff the users wish to see in the program. They might be implemented sort of ummm... cumbersome. But I truely believe that (if ever) such stuff would be implemented in Reason, the fanbase will still like it no matter how it would work.

BTW: Reason and any sort of external code (read: plugin) running within it? No freaking way.
Would break the 'absolute stability' policy of the Props. ^^

Introduce a way for 3rd party software developers to be able to run some sort of Plugin within your program, and you're doomed. Constant crashes and stuff not working are the results.

edit: sorry for all the edits. ^^
 
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what I dont get is why dont more vst developers just make a refill alternative. im begining to see a lot of kits that have vst and refill format in them. that keeps both sides of the arguement happy
 
A reason update may be out or announced in less than a year, because with (even) more powerful VSTs and Hardware pieces from the Big 3 coming out by or during 2008, its going to make Reason less and less attractive to music makers...if Propellerheads wants to really stay competitive, they'll at least announce something at one of the NAMM shows soon enough.

It wouldnt surprise me at all if they completely overhaul the Stock sample library and FX which would probably put the total package in the 8-16 GB range over the what? 3 GB or so that it takes now...

I have Reason 3.0 and I havent even reinstalled it because I have no real reason (no pun intended) too. cubase's sequencer is better, my motif ES kills it in the acoustic/synth department and i have better soft synths, but it is a great scratchpad for ideas on say a low/mid-spec laptop at the library or someone's studio. i do miss using my Andromeda Refills sometimes lol.
 
Get REASON and ABLETON LIVE and just call it a day.

No more worries about VST's or Recording.
 
Xabiton said:
what I dont get is why dont more vst developers just make a refill alternative. im begining to see a lot of kits that have vst and refill format in them. that keeps both sides of the arguement happy
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you must be thinking sample cds that are in a format vst samplers such as Kontakt or Halion can read or something, ive never heard of a "true" refill alternative to a vst. the reason that isnt done is because VSTs (romplers/synthesizers) rely on their own sound/synthesis engines. it would be impossible to make something like absynth for reason.
 
dmensah1 said:
you must be thinking sample cds that are in a format vst samplers such as Kontakt or Halion can read or something, ive never heard of a "true" refill alternative to a vst. the reason that isnt done is because VSTs (romplers/synthesizers) rely on their own sound/synthesis engines. it would be impossible to make something like absynth for reason.
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theyre mostly sample based ones that I am beginning to see. Your right it would be impossible to create a synth based refill just out of the format itself. But sample based vsts can be remade into sample based refills
 
And the point of the refill format is what? As far as I've ever been able to see, the refill is no different than a zip file. It offers the user and Reason itself exactly nothing advantageous, but there's plenty of hassle when the time comes to extract your samples or whatever you put into a refill. Wouldn't it be better to make a sample based "zip file". LOL. Really. It serves the exact same purpose with the amazingly forward thing advantage of allowing the user to extract the things which have been placed into them. Wow. When people find out about zip files, the refill is gonna be dead. LOL. I always said, refills are like the Roach Motel, "Samples check in, but they don't check out".
 
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