MPC 2000xl vs MV 8800

[Kojak]

and for those don't?

Then there's not really going to be many other options for you anyways. I mean if you're using pretty much any effects unit made within the last 20 years, it will have midi.

Unless input thru doesn't work during regular playback we're bitchhing about machine personalities.

Input thru has nothing to do with regular playback. I've tried as many times as I can, clearly you are unable or unwilling to really understand the difference. I assure you the the MPC offers the same automation features as the MV. Recording midi messages is the very function of a sequencer, I assure you that pretty much any full featured sequencer records all midi messages internally and externally.

 

[moyphee]

Then there's not really going to be many other options for you anyways. I mean if you're using pretty much any effects unit made within the last 20 years, it will have midi.

Compressors, analog delays, saturution devices,Valve devices, channel strips ,etc.. the whole audio world isn't midi and plug-in's .



Input thru has nothing to do with regular playback. I've tried as many times as I can, clearly you are unable or unwilling to really understand the difference.

I never said they were the same. When you have Input Thru active, can you hear the external audio along with your mix during playback? Yes!

*"The input thru will be recorded as the mixdown is performed."-MPC-5000 manual.

See the pics from the actual manual!


So you can use Input through to pipe in external audio as I have been saying all along. i don't know why you guys keep saying can't or that it not the Input Thru's function.



** Are the realtime Q-Link and slider movements recorded by the MPC as automation when used to control the Input Thru function? NO

See the PIC!

What the heck are dudes arguing ?!?

 

[jahrome]

Are you retarded? The only automation in question was that of Q-Links and Fader in reference to Input Thru. ...and there's still no automation for the feature so give it a rest already.

Using a synced 16 track HD recorder can give you a additional tracks free of computerfor less than $200. If the HD unit supports ADAT that can only add to your flexibilty. The MV records into RAM and has none of the pitfall of the MPCs HD recording and quite frnkly HD argument is tired. Only a fool would use the same drive for recording and storage. So much for your pro claim.

As far the advance set up BS and pro claims , here's the deal. You're not a pro you're a fanboy hoping to win a place in Numark's heart. You think that of you chime in on every thread defending Akai and dropping rumors you will become a beta tester. You're a fanboy. They see it, the MPC forums, this forum sees it , and you see it.You bought a machine to be first on the block and to make yourself seem important. In the end you're only impressing yourself.

I'm not fan of posting music but i'd like to see your discography that gives the weight to criticize anyone.My guess is that your just another guy making music in his crib...or in your case -discovering new bugs at your own expense to benifit of Numark.Damn sad!

Actually, the better question is..are you retarded?

As I already wrote, the Q-link faders/knobs are not meant to control the input thru. The Q-links are meant to control (via MIDI CC) the instruments being routed through the input thru. It seems you can't grasp such a simple concept. This happens when you only read the manual and don't actually use the machine.

As I already wrote before, if an MPC 5K user wants to use the hard drive for multi-track recording and fears that using it also as storage medium will impact performance..those individuals can use the CF card drive to store their other files. Again...this is not an option for the MV. Plus, you still have RAM based continuous audio tracks in the 5K...up to 64 of them while the MV is still limited to just 8 RAM-based audio tracks. A fool is a person that talks about things he hasn't a slight clue about....or one that believes there is only one way to do things.

So you want to talk about $200 external hard disk recorders to enhance what the MV does? Why stop there? If you used a MPC 5K simply take the same $200 and invest in a digital mixer or a hard disk recorder that has an EQ on each channel since this appears to be your main concern. For me...there are no positives for turning off a computer in favor of a hard disk recorder. I thrown away hard disk recorders in favor of a computer a long time ago. Everyone has a computer. You can even get a cheap Pro Tools LE system for around $200 and you can add parametric EQ to every channel until you are blue in the face if that is what you need. Let me repeat myself...there are still many ways to do things. If you didn't want to spend $200 and was an MPC 5K user, simply use the 4 effects processors which will give you 4 bands of true parametric EQ to tweak your sounds and record them.

As far as being a fanboy? I buy products that are useful for my needs. An MPC 5K provides that. An MV? Not so much. Since you imply that you have been paying attention to my threads about MPCs, you would know that I never tried to convince any one which one to buy. I simply provide info (good or bad) and let people make up their own minds. I share my experiences with these products. While you have no experiences to share. It is quite obvious that you are a fanboy of Roland products. Well guess what? I own Roland products as well. And as I side bar...please tell me why I would want to own an MV with Roland's semi-professional mixing/mastering when I have a Fantom G workstation that has Roland's semi-professional mixing/mastering?

Additionally...I am testing the hell out of the Roland Fantom G with its bugs and poorly implemented features....and you?

 

[moyphee]

Actually, the better question is..are you retarded?

As I already wrote, the Q-link faders/knobs are not meant to control the input thru. The Q-links are meant to control (via MIDI CC) the instruments being routed through the input thru. It seems you can't grasp such a simple concept.

That means nothing when dealing with analog device. Get A clue!

As I already wrote before, if an MPC 5K user wants to use the hard drive for multi-track recording and fears that using it also as storage medium will impact performance...


As for your MPC-3500's 4 band mastering EQ (which isn't fully parametric as you claim) , I don't know what the hell you're bragging about. The MPC's mastering section is pathetic compared to that of the MV. The MV's EQ is fully parametric (with a choice between Peak and Shelve types)as you wish were the case on your 3500.

The MV has a full mastering suite that is actually capable delivering a finished product. It has 9 blocks completley independant of the MV's Mixer and MFX. With the MV the user can shape EVERY aspect of his final sound. The MPC can't shape the tone at mixer level and falls flat when comes to shaping and polishing during Mastering..if you want to call it that. You can start with the 'less is more" crap.

How about that MPC Master compressor. Let's see how that stacks up against the MV's.

The rest of your post just personal bs. Nobody cares that Fantom G but Roland ...and they thank you.

 

[jahrome]

The rest of your post just personal bs. Nobody cares that Fantom G but Roland ...and they thank you.

My post simply has just the facts whether you like them or not. I am glad that you learned something in this thread. When it first started, you had no clue of what a 4 band parametric EQ was. But it is still quite obvious that you don't know what real mastering is. Only kids at home will try to "master" in a drum machine. I will try to help you understand what you have in the MV. Its mastering tool is simply applying a multiband compressor to a stereo track to make the low, mid, and high frequencies more consistent and sound louder. If this is all mastering is, real professionals wouldn't spend thousands of dollars sending their material to mastering engineers. The MVs multiband compressor is the same one found in my Fantom G. And as a user of this technology, I find nothing ground breaking or amazing. You can most likely find a multiband compressor in any of the software based DAWs on the market. If you happen to have a DAW that doesn't..simply google free multiband compressor vst, and one will be right at your finger tips. Happy mastering

 

[moyphee]

First we're discussing the MPC not the Fantom! Stay on subject dude.

When it first started, you had no clue of what a 4 band parametric EQ was

Just because you post a fact doesn't mean your the only with a knowledge of it. Given that you mistated 'full parametric" for the MPC when it's not clearly removes you as any kind of authority. That also kills your right to talk ish about anyone else. You're just a dude making tunes in your crib and nothing more.

More importantly you don't seem to pumped about your MPC's mastering section anymore!!!!

As for the rest of your posted excuse....nobody cares dude! If you want to present yourself as seasoned pro post your discography or keep your BS to yourself.

BTW- the rest of us buy to make music - not test it!
Happy beta-testing!

 

[jahrome]

First we're discussing the MPC not the Fantom! Stay on subject dude.



Just because you post a fact doesn't mean your the only with a knowledge of it. Given that you mistated 'full parametric" for the MPC when it's not clearly removes you as any kind of authority. That also kills your right to talk ish about anyone else. You're just a dude making tunes in your crib and nothing more.

More importantly you don't seem to pumped about your MPC's mastering section anymore!!!!

As for the rest of your posted excuse....nobody cares dude! If you want to present yourself as seasoned pro post your discography or keep your BS to yourself.

BTW- the rest of us buy to make music - not test it!
Happy beta-testing!

Again..you don't know what you are talking about. As I stated earlier, you didn't even know what a 4 band parametric EQ was. You tried to claim that the MV had one. Only after I pressed you to study up on it, you came back with the fact that the MVs 4 band EQ had only the middle two bands fully parametric. Now you want to incorrectly state that the 5K doesn't have a 4 band parametric EQ? An EQ that I have been using for 4 months Again, your response is typical of people that don't actually use a machine and base their knowledge upon what you misread in the manual.

As far as what I do for a living...no concern of yours. Just know that it allows me to buy what I want to include music production equipment which is just an expensive hobby.

I am not pumped up about the MPCs mastering capabilities? Haven't you learned anything? If not, go back and re-read and tell us what you learned about mastering.

And your right....nobody cares. Not many professionals use an MV. It is mostly for bedroom producers that want an imitation MPC with an external monitor.

As far as making music....I will put my daughter up against you any day of the week.

 

[lvngdead]

lol. don't more bedroom producers own a MPC rather than a MV?

 

[jahrome]

lol. don't more bedroom producers own a MPC rather than a MV?

My best guess will be yes. They are emulating their favorite producers..producers I don't have to name because they are well known.

Now this doesn't really mean that much because you can create music with just about anything. But with everything the MV has to offer according to specs, its puzzling why many of this well known producers opt not to use one....while Just Blaze was pissed about what he found the MPC 5K lacking (mastering not one of them)..he also stated his opinion on the MV....he passed on it.

 

[moyphee]

Only after I pressed you to study up on it, you came back with the fact that the MVs 4 band EQ had only the middle two bands fully parametric. Now you want to incorrectly state that the 5K doesn't have a 4 band parametric EQ? An EQ that I have been using for 4 months

Feel free to interpret my being more specific about the EQ anyway you like. If that is all you have to hold onto i'll allow you to have that. Bottom line is that the MV has the tonal shaping ability the squats on the MPC's rushed and limited attempt. Furthermore my being specific was in reference to the Channel Mixer EQ which 3 (and fully unknown to you) being fully par. on the mids. Not to worry Akai gave you nothing in this area after spending 3K.

The MPC-5000 mastering EQ IS NOT FULLY PARAMETRIC on all bands. Only the 2 mid bands are have adjustble bandwidth. The MV's EQ is fully paramteric on all 4 bands plus a choice between peak and shelve type. After 4 months and looking right at the pic you still don't get it!
Let's take another look shall we.

he also stated his opinion on the MV....he passed on it.

He also stated that he just bought the 8800 after being "disgusted" with the 5000. He said this himself on the MPC-forums as you well know. Let's not get selective in our recollection.

Blaze gave the 5000 a death sentence. This is the case for anyone that gives his opinion weight. He's not the only one. Even 2500 and 1000, ( let alone 4000 and back Akai users) have passed on it. Look at your own bug thread.

The MPC ( and I loved both my 2000 and 4000) may have been the standard of past generations but the new generation of musicians have reduced the MPC to another option and nothing more.

 

[youngjboy]

Why don't you guys post some music and let it speak for itself. It's futile to argue about who's machine is better. I am sure that someone who can afford a MPC 5000 can afford the MV and vice versa.

I myself was thinking about the MV when the 8000 was out, matching it against the MPC 2500. The verdict.......I picked the 2500....it has nothing to do with being a fanboy. It was about the fact that demoing it in the store made me feel the 2500 more than the MV. The MV might have had more features, but the MPC was a little more easier to get started on and make music. Apple sells millions of Ipods even though there are other MP3 players out there that have features that the IPOD doesn't like FM radio and removeable storage media. The point is that sometimes having a laundry list of features doesn't sell a product.

I still think the MV is a great product and have thought about going over to it for certain reasons. I do like the fact that in some ways, it is DAW like in nature, but my MPC does what I want it to I do wish that it had some DAW-ness to it so that I could just mouse over and cut and paste different parts together into a whole track all on screen like in cubase instead of making different patterns and then putting them together in a song.

 

[Kojak]

Compressors, analog delays, saturution devices,Valve devices, channel strips ,etc.. the whole audio world isn't midi and plug-in's .

Most modern studio equipment supports MIDI to control and automate any parameters they have. But I don't know what you're trying to prove here, it's not as if the MV has some other way to automate those controls given that it's impossible to externally automate any changes on devices without MIDI, so it's not as if the MV has some other way to interface with those devices that the MPC does not. The fact is that the MPC can integrate with these devices better considering its support for more MIDI channels.

I never said they were the same. When you have Input Thru active, can you hear the external audio along with your mix during playback? Yes!

Exactly, and this is a function that, to my knowledge, the MV does not support.

Are the realtime Q-Link and slider movements recorded by the MPC as automation when used to control the Input Thru function?

You would never use the Q-Link to automate while using INPUT THRU, you still have no concept of what it is.

Blaze gave the 5000 a death sentence.

Yeah right. First off, hip hop producers aren't the only people who use sequencer/samplers. Secondly, anyone smart enough to be able to properly use a sequencer/sampler would be smarter than to take one person's online ranting seriously enough to overlook a machine.

 

[jahrome]

Just Blaze does not use an MV-8800. The MPC 5Ks Master EQ (not mastering EQ) is provides parametric EQ on the two middle bands but if you can actually read, I told you that it has a 4 buss effects processor(2 effects per buss with side chains) that has a full parametric eq. That means it has gain, Q, and frequency settings for ALL 4 bands. I am sorry that you missed this in the manual.

The 5K has a bug thread just like every MPC before it as well as the MV that you are using. Don't pretend you know who is using the 5K. Havoc of Mobb Deep uses the 5K. MPCs will not being loosing its standard status any time soon. Nobody uses the MV regardless of what you type.

 

[moyphee]

In virtually every instance the q-links and fader movements can be recorded. Now, the Input Thru levels can be control the Q and faders but the MPC can not record them for automation at Mixdown.

The MV input Channel OTOH , operating the in same capacity will record these movements so that they don't have to be reperformed manualy. This is simply part of the MV's standard mixing and throughput scheme.

Exactly, and this is a function that, to my knowledge, the MV does not support.

Slow down a second. The MV input channel does exactly that. For example, whether at mixdown or or standard playback the Input channel is always active an the input can be monitored or mixed with anything at anytime. The difference is that tyhe MPC has it a function that must be activated and the MV has built this functionalty directly into the mixer.

As a matter of fact, Mike Acosta shows how the Input channel can bypass everything else and record straight to HD like a 2-Track.Also in the Workshop docs there is a diagram showing how to pipe in audio from external synths using the input channel during mixdown. You simply don't have activate anything to get this functionalty with the MV-it's alway there.

Check the video -Using the MV as HD recorder. This will show the audio going through the MV bypassing the sample engine all together.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=572&ParentId=73



Jerome- Blaze posted that he had an MV being delivered in his thread. How do you know what the guy uses? You're not in his studio and you don't work with him. Furthtermore, with any artist or musician - you know only what is made public.

The 5000 does indeed have 4 band para but it's peak only. So the Mv is still ahead a bit in terms of flexibilty. IMO- the 5000 just doesn't have the facilities to produce a project from start to finish as marketed. The mastering tools are not there. While pro mastering is prefered, the MV will produce a product closer to retail ready than the MPC is capable. We know this because it's the same Mastering engine found in the VS-2480 which has berthed many retail CD before being ousted by software. Most come just fine by using or tweaking the tyemplates written by working producers.

* In an old VS-2480 ad there is a listing of the Mastering engineers that wrote the templates. It actually help sell the machine.

Nobody uses the MV regardless of what you type

I'm not making someone elses music...so why would I buy what someone else makes their music with. IMO-The most important person in the world (to me at least) uses the MV....ME! That's the only person it has to work for and does that brilliantly! I don't need anyone to validate my gear decisions. I don't follow the masses or the celebrated. I make can make and walk my own path!

 

[rhythmonster]

* In an old VS-2480 ad there is a listing of the Mastering engineers that wrote the templates. It actually help sell the machine.

That's interesting, I'd kind of like to see that do you have a copy?

 

[Kojak]

The MV input Channel OTOH , operating the in same capacity will record these movements so that they don't have to be reperformed manualy. This is simply part of the MV's standard mixing and throughput scheme.

The MPC will as well, just not input through while live monitoring, which would be useless anyways. Input thru is a function the MV doesn't even support.

As a matter of fact, Mike Acosta shows how the Input channel can bypass everything else and record straight to HD like a 2-Track.

That's not even close to what I'm talking about. You have absolutely no idea what INPUT THRU is. I've tried to explain it a million times now.

 

[moyphee]

That's not even close to what I'm talking about. You have absolutely no idea what INPUT THRU is. I've tried to explain it a million times now.

Input thru is nothing more than making the input available at the output stage. Your attempt to define as anything more makes no sense.

Please post what is unique about Input thru i it's function!

Post an example and I will outline how it's done with the MV's Input Channel.

That's interesting, I'd kind of like to see that do you have a copy?

Hadn't seen it years it was when the 2480 was just picking up from the 1880.

 

[Kojak]

Post an example and I will outline how it's done with the MV's Input Channel.

Here's an easy one, monitor an input in realtime directly passed through one filter and a multi-effect.

 

[moyphee]

Here's an easy one, monitor an input in realtime directly passed through one filter and a multi-effect.

Route the MFX,reverb,chorus to "Input" and adjust the affected signal gain via Input fader on the mixer.

Here's one for the Input Thru...

Take an input signal send it to the synth a resonance source and have the audio actuated as gate by the live pads or midi track. All in realtime with all filtering ,Reverb, Chorus,etc active.

 

[Kojak]

Route the MFX,reverb,chorus to "Input" and adjust the affected signal gain via Input fader on the mixer.

That doesn't do what I asked. You didn't think I'd post something that you can actually do did you? I know it's not possible for you to do.

Take an input signal send it to the synth a resonance source and have the audio actuated as gate by the live pads or midi track. All in realtime with all filtering ,Reverb, Chorus,etc active.

"Send it to the synth a resonance source"? What does that even mean? There's no such thing as a resonance source. I could route an input signal through a resonant filter, have it gated in realtime by a midi input signal, and have it pass through an additional filter and two additional multi-effects units. I think that's what you tried to say, and yes, I can do that.