MPC 2000xl vs MV 8800

[moyphee]

It does, the individual outputs. These are aux mixes, and the MPC has 8 of them which can be directly sent individually to external hardware.

Not true at all. The MPC has individual Outs but has no true Auxes in it's mixer- anywhere. assigning to Ind.Out is not the same as creating a sub mix with a real Aux with automation and EQ then routing it to where you want it. Not even close.

Secondly, Input Thru is in no way comparable to the flexibilty of the MV's Input channel. It's automated or fully integrated as channel. That means that with every mix the user is Fader Ridng the Input channel. If a retake is needed the fader movements have to be reperformed with every take.

 

[Kojak]

Not true at all. The MPC has individual Outs but has no true Auxes in it's mixer

Perhaps you've never worked with an actual mixer, but I assure you, the MPC's individual outs are the very definition of an AUX. What the MV has is a digital submix with no actual direct outs or inserts for the submix.

Secondly, Input Thru is in no way comparable to the flexibilty of the MV's Input channel.

Obviously you don't know what the INPUT THRU is on an MPC, yes it is not comparable to anything on the MV because INPUT THRU is a feature that the MV does not have. The input without using input through on it has all the same automation abilties as the MV.

 

[moyphee]

Obviously you don't know what the INPUT THRU is on an MPC, yes it is not comparable to anything on the MV because INPUT THRU is a feature that the MV does not have. The input without using input through on it has all the same automation abilties as the MV.

View attachment 18184
Nothing complex about that. The MV simply doesn't give the Input mixing a title. It does however perform the Input mixing with full automation which the MPC is incapable of doing as stated by the manual. This means that user is Fader Riding during the mix unless the setting is to be static-and there is no way around that fact . The difference between the two comes down to being able to automate the movements. The MPC simply can't do it.
*How are you automating the Input Thru when the MPC manual states that that no Q-link or Fader moves are recordable?

Perhaps you've never worked with an actual mixer, but I assure you, the MPC's individual outs are the very definition of an AUX. What the MV has is a digital submix with no actual direct outs or inserts for the submix.

Let's not start with the insults.These are not actual mixers if they were there would be returns for each send which was premise for the routing work-around in the first place I already said that the Auxes can carry a complete automated and EQ'd submix. As far no inserts the MV allows the MFX to inserted directly to any of the 4 Auxes and then to any available Ind.Out. The difference maker is that MPC-4000/5000 have for mono blocks as opposed to the single MFX. Other than that the MV's EQ ,automation and insertable MFX provided superior flexibilty when sending the outside of the box.

 

[moyphee]

What the MV has is a digital submix with no actual direct outs or inserts for the submix.

The Auxes on the MV can routed to any output the user has available. In every Part, Aux , and Audio Track can be routed to available output.That said the Auxes are not the only way to achieve a submix on the MV. What's important is that full EQ and Automation is present in all cases. This means that one can mix and/or isolate any of the three without loosing this functionality when send the audio outside of the machine.

Sorry for the split post.

 

[Kojak]

Nothing complex about that. The MV simply doesn't give the Input mixing a title. It does however perform the Input mixing with full automation which the MPC is incapable of doing as stated by the manual. This means that user is Fader Riding during the mix unless the setting is to be static-and there is no way around that fact . The difference between the two comes down to being able to automate the movements. The MPC simply can't do it.
*How are you automating the Input Thru when the MPC manual states that that no Q-link or Fader moves are recordable?

You still don't know what input thru is. I'm not going to explain it to you. During normal recording, MPC's can automate fader movements. I know this for a fact, I have done it.

Let's not start with the insults.

I wasn't trying to insult you, no need to get defensive.

These are not actual mixers if they were there would be returns for each send

AUX out's don't neccesarily need a return.

The Auxes on the MV can routed to any output the user has available. In every Part, Aux , and Audio Track can be routed to available output.That said the Auxes are not the only way to achieve a submix on the MV. What's important is that full EQ and Automation is present in all cases. This means that one can mix and/or isolate any of the three without loosing this functionality when send the audio outside of the machine.

As I've said before, this is functionality that can done much better with external devices. I don't want to have all of this automation done with my sequencer, my computer can do far more. I want my sequencer to be a sequencer, not a sequencer/multi-track when it can't do either that well.

 

[jahrome]

Nothing complex about that. The MV simply doesn't give the Input mixing a title. It does however perform the Input mixing with full automation which the MPC is incapable of doing as stated by the manual. This means that user is Fader Riding during the mix unless the setting is to be static-and there is no way around that fact . The difference between the two comes down to being able to automate the movements. The MPC simply can't do it.

@moyphee
What MPC are you talking about? The 5K can record and playback automation of internal sample programs, internal synth, as well as external MIDI instruments. This is not something I read in a manual. This is something I have done...unless you are talking about something else.

Also, tell us about the 3 band parametric EQ you say is on the MVs mixer channels?

The Auxes on the MV can routed to any output the user has available. In every Part, Aux , and Audio Track can be routed to available output.

Available outputs? Do you mean the stereo output or are you talking about the $350 MV8OP1 expansion board that you have to buy?

Back to the 5K...the synth, internal sounds, and effects can be routed to 10 different outputs. Please note that you can send the "wet effects signal" to its own output completely separated from the 'dry signal". Thus you can create "submixes" onboard. These "submixes" can be sent directly to the 5Ks hard disk tracks for recording...not to mention that your external instruments routed to the input thru can be recorded to the hard disk tracks.

 

[TechHouseGruv]

If im not mistaken the MPC 4000 still has unresolved bugs that Akai never fixed. The MPC 4k does not do full song mixdowns with mastering capabilities like the MV , the MPC 4k does NOT burn CDs nor DVDs its only a cd-rom drive. The MPC 4k does NOT have 8 stereo linear audio tracks like the MV , the MPC 4k does NOT have the option to choose between linear & pattern sequencing like the MV. You CANNOT hook an external HD drive to a MPC 4k. The MPC 4k does NOT have a built in analog modeling synth like the MV , the new MPC 5k tried to copy that from the MV but it still uses samples that have to load into memory , the MV's synth is just like a rompler no load times for switching patches.

THE MPC 4K DOES NOT < NOT NOT , have the VGA output like the MV which allows you to connect it to a plasma or ANY monitor for DAW like sequencing.

The MV's cosm modeling effects SMOKE ALL MPC effects.

The MPC 4k does not have the Stereo Auto-Chop function to instrument feature like the MVs , chops turned into playable instruments in seconds. It doesnt create " patched phrases " like the mpc 2500 or 5k which sucks if you need to edit.

The MPC 4k does not have the ability to record LIVE instruments or vocals directly to linear audio tracks,

The MV can handle a total of 128 midi tracks plus an extra 64 midi tracks embedded within a " pattern track " in song mode and 9 stereo audio tracks ( 1 stereo audio track can be within a pattern track ) for a whopping total of 201 possible tracks playing at once. MPC 4k ? nope

The MV can also load .BMP images to the pads that can be sequenced via midi within a song and projected out the VGA output. MPC 4k , nope

MV comes with 420 MB of stock drum sounds and instruments. A true multi sampler for playing keyboard sounds with aftertouch and velocity sens pads.

The MV has TRUE REAL-TIME BPM SYNCING of ALL Audio PHrases ( automatic time stretching ) And the MV can adjust TIME & PITCH of samples and audio tracks independently of one another in REAL-TIME.

MPC 4K ? NOPE ! Dream on

At Jahrome

The MV's mixer has a 3 band EQ with the mid band fully parametric and sweepable on EVERY internal part ( 16 internal instruments ) and on ALL 8 audio tracks. This is separate from the MFX. So you CAN create submixs which are routed to any of the AUX's and then have the AUX's routed to any of the 8 outputs. Mixer levels , aux levels , mutes , effects sends can all be automated on separate tracks dedicated for automation.

The MFX can be inserted on the input stage ( BOSS effects for a guitar ) and then tracked directly to a linear audio track with the effect in real-time. That live Guitar audio track can instantly be set to auto BPM sync , you can change the tempo of your beat or song and the live audio tracks automatically sync without altering pitch in real-time. Love it

 

[moyphee]

As far the 5000 manual states, the MPCs cannot record automation for the Input Thru function. Theyn clearly state that while it can be controlled by Q-links and Faders the movements are not recordable.

The parametric EQ is available on every Instrument /Part and Audio channel. To be fully accurate in it description the Low and Hi bands are semi-parametric while the Mid band is fully parametric.

https://www.futureproducers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18207&stc=1&d=1220687552

 

[Kojak]

As far the 5000 manual states, the MPCs cannot record automation for the Input Thru function. Theyn clearly state that while it can be controlled by Q-links and Faders the movements are not recordable.

You still don't know what INPUT THRU is.

but it still uses samples that have to load into memory , the MV's synth is just like a rompler no load times for switching patches.

No it doesn't. It stores patch settings on the hard drive, which is the total of a few bytes that just contain numerical data for each knob position. There would be no noticable load time.

 

[moyphee]

You still don't know what INPUT THRU is.

So that's what your response has been reduced to....damn.


Why don't you give us a detailed explanation instead trying to make a simple manual feature into something special. We know what it does and what the manual says so lets be original shall we?

 

[Kojak]

Input thru is not the same thing as standard recording. It allows the Input sound to be routed through any output while recording, running effects, or anything else. Standard recording and automation still runs while this feature is not enabled. So you might want to spend some more time trying to read through the manual of a product you don't even own looking for faults.

 

[moyphee]

Input thru is not the same thing as standard recording. It allows the Input sound to be routed through any output while recording, running effects, or anything else. Standard recording and automation still runs while this feature is not enabled. So you might want to spend some more time trying to read through the manual of a product you don't even own looking for faults.

I never said the Input Thru was the same as standard recording. I said it lacks automation and must be controlled manually. The fact is the Q-links and Fader movements of the Input Thru are not recordable so any level movements must be performed manually.There is no automation applicable to directly this feature-get over it. Nobody said anything about a lack of routing-it lacks the same automation as the other channels. The MV's Input channel also acts independant of other channels but whem I mix an outside source I don't have to f
Fader Ride on every take. Once I get it right, I'm free to move on.


FTR- Before i switched to MV I used the MPC-4000 and 2000 for years. Input Thru did not come about until after the MV-8000.

 

[Kojak]

The MV's Input channel also acts independant of other channels but whem I mix an outside source I don't have to f
Fader Ride on every take. Once I get it right, I'm free to move on.

You can record automations on standard recordings with the MPC, you just can't in INPUT THRU mode, which is a feature the MV doesn't even have.

 

[jahrome]

As far the 5000 manual states, the MPCs cannot record automation for the Input Thru function. Theyn clearly state that while it can be controlled by Q-links and Faders the movements are not recordable.

The parametric EQ is available on every Instrument /Part and Audio channel. To be fully accurate in it description the Low and Hi bands are semi-parametric while the Mid band is fully parametric.

https://www.futureproducers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18207&stc=1&d=1220687552

Misinformation spreads when you don't actually use a certain product and you attempt to tell people what it does based on your comprehension level when reading the manual. You donot appear to know what the Input Thru Function is. In simple terms, it is just a quick way to turn on the audio input. The input thru doesn't need automation. All the automation (internal/external instruments) is recorded as MIDI events via Q-link sliders and knobs (manual p 165). All the fader and pan movements for internal/external instruments can be recorded/played back from the sequencer. In fact, any MIDI CC parameter can be recorded/playback from the sequencer.

So do you finally understand? Also, explain to us what a parametric and semi-parametric eq is?

 

[moyphee]

In simple terms, it is just a quick way to turn on the audio input. The input thru doesn't need automation. All the automation (internal/external instruments) is recorded as MIDI events via Q-link sliders and knobs (manual p 165).

That's already been covered and established ...and that's all it does. The MV input channel also does this. The two features are not that far apart. In the context that this came up, CC does nothing for using external analog compressors , filters , pedals , or other pure analog devices. Nobody was talking about controlling MIDI synths. That said you can stop adding variables to make the feature sound like anything special.

CC also does nothing when using the Input Thru to pipe in vocals from slaved player/recorder like digital rack HD recorders which many of us still have. I still use my DR-16 /mixer/patch bay combo to add an additional 16 Audio Tracks. When I bring synced audio back into the MV I don't have to ride the fader on every take . The automation on the fader handles it for me. The MPC will not allowthe user to do that because you cannot recorrd the fader motion.

Also, explain to us what a parametric and semi-parametric eq is?
Semi-parametric bands has the Q fixed so the bandwidth isn't adjustable. So do you finally understand?

 

[Kojak]

The two features are not that far apart. In the context that this came up, CC does nothing for using external analog compressors , filters , pedals , or other pure analog devices

A lot of new analog devices like that do accept MIDI, for example the Sherman Filterbank.

Input Thru to pipe in vocals from slaved player/recorder like digital rack HD recorders which many of us still have.

THAT'S NOT WHAT INPUT THRU DOES! How many times do I have to say it?

When I bring synced audio back into the MV I don't have to ride the fader on every take . The automation on the fader handles it for me. The MPC will not allowthe user to do that because you cannot recorrd the fader motion.

Yes you can record fader motion while recording. Input thru is not the same as normal recording, which the MPC allows full automation during, input thru allows realtime monitoring of the input signal, which should make it obvious why fader motions are not recording during.

 

[moyphee]

A lot of new analog devices like that do accept MIDI, for example the Sherman Filterbank.

...and for those don't?

THAT'S NOT WHAT INPUT THRU DOES! How many times do I have to say it?

If it shows up at the output stage you use it as I described and that where I'm arguing from.
This outside of what recording goes on inside the machine. I'm talking about adding external audio to the final product at mixdown.
How many times do I have to say it? In the case described, the wet signal from outboard unit is being piped in. You've already stated you can do it so what are you kicking about?

Unless input thru doesn't work during regular playback we're bitchhing about machine personalities.

 

[jahrome]

That's already been covered and established ...and that's all it does. The MV input channel also does this. The two features are not that far apart. In the context that this came up, CC does nothing for using external analog compressors , filters , pedals , or other pure analog devices. Nobody was talking about controlling MIDI synths. That said you can stop adding variables to make the feature sound like anything special.

CC also does nothing when using the Input Thru to pipe in vocals from slaved player/recorder like digital rack HD recorders which many of us still have. I still use my DR-16 /mixer/patch bay combo to add an additional 16 Audio Tracks. When I bring synced audio back into the MV I don't have to ride the fader on every take . The automation on the fader handles it for me. The MPC will not allowthe user to do that because you cannot recorrd the fader motion.

Also, explain to us what a parametric and semi-parametric eq is?
Semi-parametric bands has the Q fixed so the bandwidth isn't adjustable. So do you finally understand?

I know what a semi-parametric EQ is. But it was quite obvious you didn't understand. Thanks for me pressing you...you finally seem to get it. But what is a parametric eq again?

HD recorders huh? Well, many of use have stopped using those quite some time. We have moved on to software based DAWs with full automation, extensive editing and effects routing, etc, etc. With those of us that have more advanced set-ups than yours, we can import multi-audio tracks recorded by these DAWs into the MPC 5Ks own hard disk audio tracks....no need to sync anything. You can't do this with the MV. MPCs have had 10 analog outs for quite some time. The analog outs are use to route audio tracks to mixers (or directly into a DAW) where you can add as much EQ and effects as you like. This is what professionals do and not try to mix and master in a drum machine. But the 5K does have a 4 effect busses (2 effects per buss) which includes a true 4 band parametric EQ if you prefer to mix in a drum machine.

Back to automation? You just don't seem to get it. The mixers in the MPC 5K are fully automated. In other words, you can record the "fader motion" of the mixer. You can do this with individual sounds or entire tracks within the MPC. You can also do this with external MIDI instruments. Since the MPC and the MV basically have a stereo input for recording...the most efficient method is to use the MPC 5Ks ability to import hard disk tracks and then use its mixer section to record/playback "fader motions" with 12 Q-link controls.

 

[moyphee]

I know what a semi-parametric EQ is. But it was quite obvious you didn't understand. Thanks for me pressing you...you finally seem to get it. But what is a parametric eq again?

A vital feature that MPC's mixer channels lack.

Back to automation? You just don't seem to get it. The mixers in the MPC 5K are fully automated. In other words, you can record the "fader motion" of the mixer. You can do this with individual sounds or entire tracks within the MPC. You can also do this with external MIDI instruments. Since the MPC and the MV basically have a stereo input for recording...the most efficient method is to use the MPC 5Ks ability to import hard disk tracks and then use its mixer section to record/playback "fader motions" with 12 Q-link controls.

Are you retarded? The only automation in question was that of Q-Links and Fader in reference to Input Thru. ...and there's still no automation for the feature so give it a rest already.

Using a synced 16 track HD recorder can give you a additional tracks free of computerfor less than $200. If the HD unit supports ADAT that can only add to your flexibilty. The MV records into RAM and has none of the pitfall of the MPCs HD recording and quite frnkly HD argument is tired. Only a fool would use the same drive for recording and storage. So much for your pro claim.

As far the advance set up BS and pro claims , here's the deal. You're not a pro you're a fanboy hoping to win a place in Numark's heart. You think that of you chime in on every thread defending Akai and dropping rumors you will become a beta tester. You're a fanboy. They see it, the MPC forums, this forum sees it , and you see it.You bought a machine to be first on the block and to make yourself seem important. In the end you're only impressing yourself.

I'm not fan of posting music but i'd like to see your discography that gives the weight to criticize anyone.My guess is that your just another guy making music in his crib...or in your case -discovering new bugs at your own expense to benifit of Numark.Damn sad!

 

[youngjboy]

Damn yall, just make music!!! It doesn't matter....there will always be those who prefer one piece of gear over another, that is the beauty of having a choice.