I am a crack head!!!

World Wide said:
Sorry buddy. Your argument is the one that is incorrect.

Of course they company wants to make a profit. Isn't that the whole point???? Music software makers are not charities, so your suggestion that they should merely try to break even is ludicrous.

Also your argument that software priced "too damn much" is totally subjective and also crazy. First, its supply and demand... look it up, and second, you personally have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what it costs a company to develop/maintain this kind of software, and equally NO IDEA what kind of profit margins these companies have on these products... you are guessing/assuming things you have no business guessing/assuming at. Do you work for IK? Digidesign? Native Instruments? Propellerheads? I didn't think so...
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Number 1... I didnt suggest they just break even I said IF, a hypothetical... so maybe you should READ first...

Number 2... of course my view is subjective, but not isolated to my own personal opinion, thousands if not millions of people have complained about the quality that they get for the price that they pay... so yes the price is too high if it doesnt deliver on ALL of its promises... So a car that someone sells you for 10,000 dollars doesnt cost too much when it starts sputtering and seizing in rush hour traffic??? And the plug-in you just bought from NI doesnt cost too much when it doesnt work, and crashes your computer causing you to lose all the work you just did???

And actually no I dont know PERSONALLY what it costs to run a software company, but it doesnt take a genius to know that Microsoft doesnt cost 25 billion dollars a year to run... Do you know how large Digidesign is??? Do you know how much they pay their employees???

Well lets see... Avid owns Digidesign and M-Audio... both big boys in the music interface and MIDI markets... oh and Sibelius as well...so thats 4 at least multi-MILLION dollar companies, who not only deal in VST and audio technology but also branch out into animation, film and every other market in entertainment... how much does it cost to run those entities, not much when you have deep pockets. I dont give 2 sh!ts that they miss out on a few bucks cause Tommy and Jim in Anchorage Alaska DL'd their software... Do I car that people take from the little guys??? Hell yeah... Any company that can acquire five other large companies, and still keep their prices relatively high compared to other competitors gets no sympathy...

And what I really dont get is why the companies who make the products are b!tchin... they dont lose any business... the retailers lose the business in the long run... thats the only reason I buy stuff is to keep my local music shops in business... cause once we start having to buy straight from the manufacturer its all over, and the price gouging will begin...

But alas Ive digressed... you need to read before you start spouting off at the lips.
 
TracAssassinLokk said:
Number 1... I didnt suggest they just break even I said IF, a hypothetical... so maybe you should READ first...

Number 2... of course my view is subjective, but not isolated to my own personal opinion, thousands if not millions of people have complained about the quality that they get for the price that they pay... so yes the price is too high if it doesnt deliver on ALL of its promises... So a car that someone sells you for 10,000 dollars doesnt cost too much when it starts sputtering and seizing in rush hour traffic??? And the plug-in you just bought from NI doesnt cost too much when it doesnt work, and crashes your computer causing you to lose all the work you just did???

And actually no I dont know PERSONALLY what it costs to run a software company, but it doesnt take a genius to know that Microsoft doesnt cost 25 billion dollars a year to run... Do you know how large Digidesign is??? Do you know how much they pay their employees???

Well lets see... Avid owns Digidesign and M-Audio... both big boys in the music interface and MIDI markets... oh and Sibelius as well...so thats 4 at least multi-MILLION dollar companies, who not only deal in VST and audio technology but also branch out into animation, film and every other market in entertainment... how much does it cost to run those entities, not much when you have deep pockets. I dont give 2 sh!ts that they miss out on a few bucks cause Tommy and Jim in Anchorage Alaska DL'd their software... Do I car that people take from the little guys??? Hell yeah... Any company that can acquire five other large companies, and still keep their prices relatively high compared to other competitors gets no sympathy...

And what I really dont get is why the companies who make the products are b!tchin... they dont lose any business... the retailers lose the business in the long run... thats the only reason I buy stuff is to keep my local music shops in business... cause once we start having to buy straight from the manufacturer its all over, and the price gouging will begin...

But alas Ive digressed... you need to read before you start spouting off at the lips.
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I have read. And you're whole argument is totally moot.

In your world you somehow have the power to decide what a product that you had nothing to do with creating is and isn't worth, and if the company that did create it is happening to charge more than you personally feel its worth, this gives you, somehow, the right to pay $0 for it.

Read up on economics man. Supply and demand? If you don't think the NI plugins are worth what NI has decided to charge for them, then you can buy substitute products: IK, Reason, or **** even download legally free plug ins instead. If you don't think Pro Tools is worth what Digidesign has decided to charge for it, then buy Sonar, Live, Reaper, or get Audacity for free. You simply don't have the right to say "I personally feel this is overpriced, thus I will steal it and pay you nothing."


You bring up the car analogy... so if I steal a car and the police come to me and I say "but it costs $10,000 and it seizes in rush hour traffic!" then the cops are gonna say "oh, ok. You're free to go sir..."

I can't believe we are even arguing about this because it defies logic all together. In the end, it DOESN'T MATTER what it cost to run these software companies... they created and sell a product, if you don't like what it costs, no one is holding a gun to your head. You aren't the God of product value and it just isn't up to you.
 
You argument of stealing a car is invalid in this discussion... I said you buy a car thats not worth the price you paid... nothing about stealing... If you can read betwixt the lines and see anothers point of view you would see that I have plainly stated that if its worth the price, then its worth being paid for... if it isnt, and its made by a corporation that can afford a minute loss then by all means have at it... So have you ever taken candy from a store??? chances are the answer is yes, every has as a child... bet you werent thinking about the poor employees at Mars then were you???

Now make the argument that candy is worth so much less than software... and be a hypocrite... you know you want to, because thats how people are... but everyone knows stealing is stealing regardless of value, but youll try to justify it somehow... and thats ok...

And supply and demand have nothing to do with software prices... software is limitlessly supplied because its simply computer code and can be generated at any time... so limitless supply means supply stays high infinitely... so demand stays high as well??? not even... supply and demand in the digital world is the real moot point here in the pseudo-argument...
 
World Wide said:
In your world you somehow have the power to decide what a product that you had nothing to do with creating is and isn't worth, and if the company that did create it is happening to charge more than you personally feel its worth, this gives you, somehow, the right to pay $0 for it.
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but that world is the one we live in. i can get pretty much any software i want and if i believe the price to be too high i have the choice not to pay for it. it is my choice to pirate it.




TracAssassinLokk said:
And supply and demand have nothing to do with software prices... software is limitlessly supplied because its simply computer code and can be generated at any time... so limitless supply means supply stays high infinitely... so demand stays high as well??? not even... supply and demand in the digital world is the real moot point here in the pseudo-argument...
Click to expand...


amen.
 
TracAssassinLokk said:
So have you ever taken candy from a store??? chances are the answer is yes, every has as a child... bet you werent thinking about the poor employees at Mars then were you???

Now make the argument that candy is worth so much less than software... and be a hypocrite... you know you want to, because thats how people are... but everyone knows stealing is stealing regardless of value, but youll try to justify it somehow... and thats ok...
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This argument still makes no sense. Yes, i have stolen candy. The difference is I NEVER tried to justify it. I never said "Oh, well the candy sucked anyway." or "oh, the store was charging way too much for this candy, so its ok." I recognize that I did something wrong. Period. I DONT try to justify it. You can't justify it. That's not to say it keeps me up at night, but I'm not trying to fool myself that it wasn't wrong either.

You're a fully grown adult. Obviously you can do whatever you want, and cracked software is easily available to you, should you choose that route. All I'm saying is stop trying to delude yourself into thinking you've done nothing wrong through your crazy explanations.

TracAssassinLokk said:
And supply and demand have nothing to do with software prices... software is limitlessly supplied because its simply computer code and can be generated at any time... so limitless supply means supply stays high infinitely... so demand stays high as well??? not even... supply and demand in the digital world is the real moot point here in the pseudo-argument...
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about strict supply and demand solely limited to physical supply of a product. I'm talking about supply and demand as it relates to substitute/complement products. Look it up. If the price rises of one product, it creates increased demand for a substitute product. This is how the free market works.

Thus, if you feel that Pro Tools is too expensive, you can buy Reaper instead for cheaper or download Audacity or whatever other legal free DAWs are out there for free. You don't get to just magically decide that because you personally think the product is overpriced, that means you now have the right to steal it and pay nothing for it.


And to go back to the car analogy, no YOU didn't specifically use the word "steal"... but what is it exactly you think you're doing when you download cracked software????

I mean hey I guess continue to tell yourself whatever it is that helps you look at yourself in the mirror every day. If it helps your conscience to not use the word "steal" or to justify that somehow you are a very special person who doesn't have to pay for things you think are overpriced... who am I to judge...
 
^^^When your sense of "morality" affects me... then I'll speak my mind.

I have to pay more for products because of people like TracAssassin. I have to use annoying ass dongles, have limited number of installs, have to go through annoying registration/certification, etc. etc. because of people like him.

Also, I'm tired of the political correctness in the world today. I don't want to shift this into a whole philosophical argument, but are there simply NO universal truths in this world? Why do we have to filter everything through each individuals own personal opinions, regardless of how absurd they may seem to most reasonable people? When we try people in criminal courts now, maybe we should just cut to the chase and ask the accused whether or not they personally felt they did something wrong. If they don't, case closed, you're free to go.

Say it terror, I think I've made peace with you over this argument because we seem to have agreed that at the very least AT SOME POINT everything should be paid for. Again, I only have a problem with people (which seems to include TracAssassin but I could be wrong) who crack things and NEVER intend to pay for them... and think this is fine simply because they are only stealing from a faceless corporation.
 
And just for the record I'd like to state my overall opinion on this matter as clearly as possible:


I have NO problem with people who crack software to try it before the buy. I also wouldn't, hypothetically, have a problem with someone who cracks a piece of software to use while they save up to actually buy that piece.

I also have no problem with people who crack software, never intend to pay for it in any way, but recognize they have done something wrong. No one is perfect, I do things myself that I personally consider wrong all the time (unfortunately). Human flaws.


My problem is with people who crack software, NEVER intend to pay for it in any way, and then have also convinced themselves there is nothing wrong with this.
 
see the problem is you're taking a very concrete look at things. you speak of speaking your mind when other people's sense of morality affects you.

so how's this for some food for thought. how about the chinese factories where macs are made. how about all the sweatshops in third world countries. how about the way western nations rip off poorer nations so we can afford luxuries, such as the luxury to make music with the latest plugins.

look at the united states less than 100 years ago and how it treated black americans. but things change.

if record companies could get away with charging 100euro for an album they would do it.

but we as consumers have the right to change that and consumers are speaking, through illegal downloading, and the businesses that provide these services need to adopt if they want to survive.

our current laws and values are not set in stone. there are no universal truths out there.
 
Trusty said:
Stop pirating software, and earn your way.

If you want to be a software glutton, do what I did...

1. Make your music habit pay for itself.

2. Become a reviewer for a magazine and get companies to send you stuff for free.

:)
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And that's the truth right there man!
 
World Wide said:
^^^When your sense of "morality" affects me... then I'll speak my mind.

I have to pay more for products because of people like TracAssassin. I have to use annoying ass dongles, have limited number of installs, have to go through annoying registration/certification, etc. etc. because of people like him.

Also, I'm tired of the political correctness in the world today. I don't want to shift this into a whole philosophical argument, but are there simply NO universal truths in this world? Why do we have to filter everything through each individuals own personal opinions, regardless of how absurd they may seem to most reasonable people? When we try people in criminal courts now, maybe we should just cut to the chase and ask the accused whether or not they personally felt they did something wrong. If they don't, case closed, you're free to go.

Say it terror, I think I've made peace with you over this argument because we seem to have agreed that at the very least AT SOME POINT everything should be paid for. Again, I only have a problem with people (which seems to include TracAssassin but I could be wrong) who crack things and NEVER intend to pay for them... and think this is fine simply because they are only stealing from a faceless corporation.
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No you have to pay more for your software because of craking teams like H20, delirium, and others... dont blame me for your software woes... nowhere in my posts have I said that I do use pirated plugs, so you really need to apologize...

waiting...

and waiting...

mehhhhh nevermind, I can see ur just never going to see anyone else's POV, so Im going to stop trying to shed light on what you're definitely in the dark about... buh-bye hater...
 
neverenoughfunk said:
the real customers suffers from piracy...

any software that has authorization the end customer is paying for that...

the coder are not coding the athorization portion of the application for free...

that cost is paid by the "paying" end user...
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You're right about that... the software company is paying to have their stuff coded due to the existence of piracy.. and thus the end user pays for it ultimately.

Touche' lol.
 
Yea, I got turned onto reason from a crack...cost me a C-note. I was stoops! but, after few weeks I fell in love with reason and was so paranoid that something might go wrong with the program or whatever and I wouldn't have it so...I coughed up the cake and went to see the boys at Guitar center. It was kinda like repenting for your sins! Lol!!!
 
It just feel better when U buy ya software & samples..I might steal some one shots or something at times but I rather spend my $$$...Yeah I got that $$$...ask guitar center!!!

I use to use alot of vst & vsti, but my BIG thang was loops and them one shots..Now I just use what I bought ...i bought a new computer and everything...I didnt need all that stuff....a bunch of eq's but didnt know nothing about freq's...compressers but not using it properly...yeah that was me...

Now buying is just addictive as DL for free plus you feel good aabout yourself...You will feel like a real producer even if you are just a bedroom producer..the feeling is just better..I dont even use loops anymore,,,so stealing is just a big waste of time in some cases...U feel me?
 
I agree it, It really does feel better when purchasing your soft instruments. It really does make you appreciate it more and more interested in learning how and why everything works the way it does... I know sooo many people who use the hell out of some presets and don't even bother to tweak it. The worst thing is using the same preset over and over.
Take some time out and learn the synth, people.
 
this is the reason why i don't respect cats use pirated software or promote it in tracassasins case.the software to me is far from overpriced if anything. reason out the 499. with that i get a drum machine, 3 synths 2 samplers 2 mixers and a sort of effect devices if that was hard i would have been spending at least 10 to 15 thousand dollars easy. the fact of the sotware being sold at the prices if pretty much for musicians that want to make money off of their music i made so much money off of the music i made from reason and it only cost 500. i have no complaints. people complain about things can't afford. well i say step your game up learn your craft and make money of your talent that way you dont have to complain when you see something in the orice 500 and up. the only plugins that i see that are over priced is waves but if you thing about having all those plugins in hardware format you would have spent almost $80,000 maybe more.
 
that is such a narrow minded view of things.

the fact of the matter is that the over-whelming majority of people who purchase software never make that money back. for most people music will always be just an expensive hobby to them.

and comparing the cost of SOFTWARE to HARDWARE is ridiculous. saying that the equivalent of reason in hardware would cost thousands makes no sense.

if you feel like you need to purchase music software for whatever reason eg. fear of viruses, wanting to respect your tools, making a conscious commitment to your craft, you just have the money, you want to support the developer, etc.. then please go ahead and purchase your software. but i just hate people who openly say you don't respect people who use pirated software you just come off as very closed minded. remember there are a lot of people out there who would laugh at you for spending money on something you could have gotten for free.
 
say it terror said:
and comparing the cost of SOFTWARE to HARDWARE is ridiculous. saying that the equivalent of reason in hardware would cost thousands makes no sense.
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Nah it makes perfect sense. It would cost thousands and thousands to get an equivalent to Reason in hardware gear. Especially since it's a lot easier to get a free refill then somebody giving you a free keyboard.
 
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