I am a crack head!!!

^^^ I wasn't commenting on the quality of the musician, I was commenting on how seriously he takes his craft.

And yes, in our free market economy, you do have the right to choose which companies you support or don't support with your spending... you do NOT have the right to simply choose to STEAL a product a company is selling rather than pay for it. This is absurd.

And you said "some people don't have the money to spend on luxuries such as software". Well guess what? Some people also can't afford to buy Bentleys, does that mean the Bentley company should be giving one out for free to every person?

I would love to have the WAVES bundles, NI Komplete, Pro Tools HD, etc. etc. etc, but unfortunately, I can't afford these products. Not being able to afford something doesn't somehow magically give you the right to steal it.

I respect you as well for being able to have an intelligent debate without resorting to immaturity (which is what usually happens on FP... and the net as whole), but your arguments are mostly invalid. You are trying to justify something that simply isn't justifiable.
 
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I wasn't knocking anyone who uses pirated stuff, by the way. It's just that I personally prefer not to. :-) None of my business what someone else does and I certainly don't look down my nose at people who do - can only speak for myself and was just giving my personal opinion...
 
World Wide said:
^^^ I wasn't commenting on the quality of the musician, I was commenting on how seriously he takes his craft.

And yes, in our free market economy, you do have the right to choose which companies you support or don't support with your spending... you do NOT have the right to simply choose to STEAL a product a company is selling rather than pay for it. This is absurd.

And you said "some people don't have the money to spend on luxuries such as software". Well guess what? Some people also can't afford to buy Bentleys, does that mean the Bentley company should be giving one out for free to every person?

I would love to have the WAVES bundles, NI Komplete, Pro Tools HD, etc. etc. etc, but unfortunately, I can't afford these products. Not being able to afford something doesn't somehow magically give you the right to steal it.

I respect you as well for being able to have an intelligent debate without resorting to immaturity (which is what usually happens on FP... and the net as whole), but your arguments are mostly invalid. You are trying to justify something that simply isn't justifiable.
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thanks and i also applaud you for not resorting to petty insults which is what happens a lot of times on these forums when people disagree.

i guess my main point is that we just disagree and that's it.

you mentioned that "you do have the right to choose which companies you support or don't support with your spending... you do NOT have the right to simply choose to STEAL a product a company is selling rather than pay for it. This is absurd."

unfortunately i, and everybody else, have the right to steal and pirate software BUT i have to be willing to live with the consequences should i get caught.

there is almost zero risk in using pirated software in your bedroom. and i think that's who the overwhelming majority of downloaders are; bedroom producers. i think once people begin to take things more seriously they begin to invest in the tools they use.

but remember of all the people who start out producing very few stick at it and become "serious" about it and even less reach a standard of where they can call themselves a professional musician.

if we want to get technical about it look at all the music videos on youtube that are violating copyright. hip-hop is founded on sampling which itself is infringing on copyright.

remember times change. just because something is against the law does not make it set in stone as morally correct or incorrect.
 
say it terror said:
thanks and i also applaud you for not resorting to petty insults which is what happens a lot of times on these forums when people disagree.

i guess my main point is that we just disagree and that's it.

you mentioned that "you do have the right to choose which companies you support or don't support with your spending... you do NOT have the right to simply choose to STEAL a product a company is selling rather than pay for it. This is absurd."

unfortunately i, and everybody else, have the right to steal and pirate software BUT i have to be willing to live with the consequences should i get caught.

there is almost zero risk in using pirated software in your bedroom. and i think that's who the overwhelming majority of downloaders are; bedroom producers. i think once people begin to take things more seriously they begin to invest in the tools they use.

but remember of all the people who start out producing very few stick at it and become "serious" about it and even less reach a standard of where they can call themselves a professional musician.

if we want to get technical about it look at all the music videos on youtube that are violating copyright. hip-hop is founded on sampling which itself is infringing on copyright.

remember times change. just because something is against the law does not make it set in stone as morally correct or incorrect.
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ok sorry to be coming back at you so fast... im bored at work right now and really have nothing else to do but monitor this thread hahaha.


But anyway, my statement was "..but if you use cracked software with no intention of ever paying for it..." This goes back to what you just said about bedroom producers eventually buying stuff once they get more serious. This I have no problem with. Like I said, I only have a problem with people who download cracked stuff knowing full well they will NEVER pay for it.

Honestly, I actually dont even have a problem with people who download cracked stuff, know they will never pay for it, but just do music as a small hobby.

My problem is with people who download cracked stuff, know they will NEVER pay for it, and also fool themselves into thinking they are serious about making music and intend to eventually make a living from it. As I've said in other threads, why would you think anyone would/should ever invest any of their money in you if you refuse to even invest in yourself?
 
i am against using cracked software...

but i could understand a 13, 14,15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 maybe 21 using cracked software...

lets say a 15 year old has 2 or three brothers/sisters, $399 is pretty steep price for a parent to paid for a piece of software. especially, when a computer is needed with a midi controller, soundcard and speakers/headphones...

making music does cost a few dollars...

but for someone 22 or above one would think that they are mature enough to know that using cracked software is a form of stealing...

in other words a 22 year old should have morals and values...
 
i actually agree but i don't think those people are hurting anybody. those people who *think* they are taking music seriously, when in reality they aren't, wouldn't purchase the software if they had to. taking that account the software companies don't lose sales to those people because those people are not potential customers anyway.

i think most of the sales are being lost to people who would purchase software legally but unfortunately it is out of their price range. there is no way a bedroom producer, who is making nothing, can justify shelling out a couple of hundred on one effect.

to a lot of people that might be nothing. look at reaper and renoise. both cheap products that have development teams that are willing to listen to consumers. all they may not have as large a userbase as some of the other "bigger" name daws, they ratio of sales to pirated copies is nowhere near that of the bigger companies either. i think that is in part to do with the fact that they are offering a product at a reasonable price.
 
neverenoughfunk said:
i am against using cracked software...

but i could understand a 13, 14,15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 maybe 21 using cracked software...

lets say a 15 year old has 2 or three brothers/sisters, $399 is pretty steep price for a parent to paid for a piece of software. especially, when a computer is needed with a midi controller, soundcard and speakers/headphones...

making music does cost a few dollars...

but for someone 22 or above one would think that they are mature enough to know that using cracked software is a form of stealing...

in other words a 22 year old should have morals and values...
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define stealing.

if i pirate software then in one sense i am stealing but in another sense i am not. i have not taken anything from anybody else, i have not taken an item from somebody else. me having a cracked copy of flstudio does not mean one other person can't have it.

that is not the case with a physical item. if have a mpc then that means that one less person can have an mpc. as there are a limited amount of them as they are physical items.

with software things are different as they can be reproduced digitally.
 
say it terror said:
define stealing.
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compare it to a scale...

stealing is when the scale is not balanced...

i believe in karma anyways...

an individual may get thier software for free but pay more in other areas...

in my opinion "trying to get over" is a personality trait and after awhile people do catch on...

personally, i like individual who "get thru" and "not get over"...

that is just me...

you have to answer for your own deeds...
 
i also believe in the concept of karma, but not on such a basic level of "what goes around comes around". i think the universe does not care much for the laws of our countries.
 
say it terror said:
i also believe in the concept of karma, but not on such a basic level of "what goes around comes around". i think the universe does not care much for the laws of our countries.
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i agree...

i do think the universe does care how we treated each other...

just curious what you do for a living, college education, master, trade school?

have you ever coded a program?

do you know how many compilable lines of code is written by one individual per day?

how long would it take you to code in C++?

here in the new york tri state area a consult can make anywhere from $85 to $250 an hour to code in C++.

the universe want you to respect that individual that took the time to concieve and produce these products...

and you do that by paying for it...
 
i say do what u gotta do.....u are the only one that has to deal with it...u are thje one that has to live with your decisions....

the software developer isnt losing money...u more than likely would not have bought it anyway...

do what u gotta do in this life to get by but dont act like a bytch when you get a penalty for your actions...ev

things like karma are just beliefs....if karma was real...the USA and Europe would not exist...but it does...people wouldn't get away with murder...but it happens....
 
it's not really any of your business what i do for a living.

i also find it irrelevant you asking me have i ever coded a program.


are you honestly so naive to think that the "universe" cares about money? our concept of value is so warped it's hilarious. how can one even differentiate between pleasure time and "work"?

the fact that you even relate respect with money says so much about how your perspective of "karma" is formed.

we obviously have very different views on things.
 
las7154 said:
things like karma are just beliefs....if karma was real...the USA and Europe would not exist...but it does...people wouldn't get away with murder...but it happens....
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exactly. my belief in something akin to karma is rather romantic. i obviously know that in the real world any explanation of a universal system of karma does not apply. it's just a positive way of looking at life and the world around us.

some people are nice just because they're nice, while other people are nice because they're afraid of going to hell...
 
I think a key note to be mentioned in this discussion is that the only cases where software companies are losing money is with people who can afford to buy the software but prefer to not buy it and use the pirated version. That in itself is downright wrong... and that hurts the company.

But if you think about it... technically speaking, the company is not losing money from a person who would not be able to purchase the software anyway, b/c if the pirated copy didn't exist then they'd just be SOL and wouldn't be able to spend money on it.

I'm not supporting piracy... it's all illegal in the end b/c it's proprietary, but software companies are technically only losing money from a select group of individuals who can afford their products, but are pirating it.
 
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say it terror said:
it's not really any of your business what i do for a living.

i also find it irrelevant you asking me have i ever coded a program.


are you honestly so naive to think that the "universe" cares about money? our concept of value is so warped it's hilarious. how can one even differentiate between pleasure time and "work"?

the fact that you even relate respect with money says so much about how your perspective of "karma" is formed.

we obviously have very different views on things.
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you are right it is none of my business what you do for a living or if you ever coded a program...

it takes allot of skill/long hours to code a program. i am talking from experience. if i knew you had a career we would/could agree that it takes allot to have a career. but that is for a different day...

i do not think the "universe" cares about money but i do think "treat thy neighbor as thy self"...

i guess the bottom line is up bringing...

growing up my family was very poor. i would ask my mother why not get welfare? she would reply with a smack...

i learned about scarcity (human wants exceeds human resources) at a very young age...
 
I think it depends on your personal situation. I'd love to buy every bit of music tech I install on my PC and support the developers but cannot always afford it.
 
CPhoenix said:
I think a key note to be mentioned in this discussion is that the only cases where software companies are losing money is with people who can afford to buy the software but prefer to not buy it and use the pirated version. That in itself is downright wrong... and that hurts the company.

But if you think about it... technically speaking, the company is not losing money from a person who would not be able to purchase the software anyway, b/c if the pirated copy didn't exist then they'd just be SOL and wouldn't be able to spend money on it.

I'm not supporting piracy... it's all illegal in the end b/c it's proprietary, but software companies are technically only losing money from a select group of individuals who can afford their products, but are pirating it.
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the real customers suffers from piracy...

any software that has authorization the end customer is paying for that...

the coder are not coding the athorization portion of the application for free...

that cost is paid by the "paying" end user...
 
Cracked software usually equates to problems. Viruses, unpredictable crashes, loss of session files, excessive processor load, etc....

Myself personally, I am annoyed with the fact that I have limited USB ports on my tower and the USB hubs i've purchased in the past create a load on my processor.... Dongles suck dongle.

I say if you are seriously, serious about doing audio production.......buy the FCVKING program. I DID.

LoL!!
 
honestly i can't believe you would say "human wants exceeds human resources" yet you so vehemently support software companies and the insane mark up they put on products.

if we lived in a world with infinite natural resources there would still be war. because people like to have power.

capitalism is a type of system that is built on competition.

(i have nothing against capitalism btw)

right now we have a situation where a product (music, film, software) can be distributed an almost unlimited number of times at almost no cost and yet still they expect people to pay for it. that is insane if you think logically about it.

now obviously companies have to make their money back some other way. and that's the thing. they have to learn how to make their money back some other way. the music industry is already adopting (slowing) and finally realising that the age of paid music is coming to an end.

it will be the same for software. people don't want to pay 500euro for something they can get for free. the amount of work put into a product is irrelevant to the consumer. when i go to a restaurant and eat i don't care how hard the chef worked on my dish, i just care if it tastes good.

so software companies need to try to encourage people to get into the habit of purchasing software, one of the ways of doing this would be to lower prices, or they need to get used to making no money.
 
Hmm lets see do i want to pay money or do i not? Probably not. lol.... uh.. but i do anyway.. cuz i have morals and ****.
 
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