Is Reason 6.0 Worth it?

[BangerBeats]

Yes, its worth is thats wht I use and have no problems!great program.

 

[rahimnyc44]

XABITON

"Have you tried the new mixer in Sonar? Its pretty sweet too"

Hence, you said that, being Sonar's mixer is sweet, doesn't mean it's better than the mixer in Reason. Yes it's sweet and good and calkwalk has come a long way, but again ask the question would one pick the Sonar Mixer over the SSL9000k mixer?

It would be like saying "THE YAHAMA O2R 24/96 V.2 IS SWEET TOO", yeah but it's not sweeter than the SSL9000K hardware board.The Yamaha O2R V.2 has been used for movies and records also. But 9 out of ten if given the choice to choose will go with the SSL9000K and will say it's better than the Yam by far!!! That's all I am saying. Like Protools mixer it's nice, but I don't use it I use Reason because it doesn't handle well with me, I can mix better on the 9000k than I can with Protools mixer. There are pros taking their mixes out of Protools and taking it to the 9000k now that's deep. Plus all I am saying is, no software right now comes with a better mixer than Reason, that's all.

The match up speaks for it's self. The 9000K is unmatched by any software out that comes with a mixing board!!!

---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

Yes, its worth is thats wht I use and have no problems!great program.

I agree with that statement. The work flow is impeccable, the devices are very nice and the 3 new ones I am really loving and they help me shape my music on the fly. It's a no brainer.
I only have two apps, Protools and Reason, really that's all I need. When I produce in Reason I don't need VST/i's, when I produce on the MPC I use Protools and VST/i's and it's fun. Yet all my mixes end up in Reason.

 

[Xabiton]

you really cant knock Reason 6... i actually enjoy Reason 6... but i perfer my other tools... like you said... more variety/options...



i am pretty sure Sonar's mixer is pretty sweet... only problem to "some" is the fact that it does not have a name like ssl... i am pretty sure... the Sonar mixer is just as warm, has returns and sends, etc, etc, etc... like any other DAW/HYBRID DAW (i.e. Reason 6) on the market!!!

I think a lot of what you use is based on preference. I personally upgraded to Sonar X1 because of the editing options because I don't want to wait for Props to update their editing or adding audio quantize which I have now. Reason 6 is awesome though and a very complete setup.

Yeah it's cool it looks nice but it's no SSL9000k, by no means of the fashion. Question for you, given the two, if you had to pick which one would you pic, Sonar mixer or Reason SSL 9000K? Me I would go for the 9000K.

THe 9k because I only got X1 today and I do not know it as well as I do the SSL because I have been using it for 2 years.

Hence, you said that, being Sonar's mixer is sweet, doesn't mean it's better than the mixer in Reason. Yes it's sweet and good and calkwalk has come a long way, but again ask the question would one pick the Sonar Mixer over the SSL9000k mixer?

It would be like saying "THE YAHAMA O2R 24/96 V.2 IS SWEET TOO", yeah but it's not sweeter than the SSL9000K hardware board.The Yamaha O2R V.2 has been used for movies and records also. But 9 out of ten if given the choice to choose will go with the SSL9000K and will say it's better than the Yam by far!!! That's all I am saying. Like Protools mixer it's nice, but I don't use it I use Reason because it doesn't handle well with me, I can mix better on the 9000k than I can with Protools mixer. There are pros taking their mixes out of Protools and taking it to the 9000k now that's deep. Plus all I am saying is, no software right now comes with a better mixer than Reason, that's all.

The match up speaks for it's self. The 9000K is unmatched by any software out that comes with a mixing board!!!

---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------




I agree with that statement. The work flow is impeccable, the devices are very nice and the 3 new ones I am really loving and they help me shape my music on the fly. It's a no brainer.
I only have two apps, Protools and Reason, really that's all I need. When I produce in Reason I don't need VST/i's, when I produce on the MPC I use Protools and VST/i's and it's fun. Yet all my mixes end up in Reason.

when it comes to tools I often worry less about who uses what and think more about what works best for me.

 

[rahimnyc44]

THe 9k because I only got X1 today and I do not know it as well as I do the SSL because I have been using it for 2 years.


when it comes to tools I often worry less about who uses what and think more about what works best for me.

Hey I agree with you on that. I could careless what anyone else use also. Cause at the end of the day the customer don't care, they want the hot track with dope lyrics. WE as producers are to critical sometimes and I have learned years ago to curve that. Yet you have those or others that try to tell me different. Hey Sonar is a dope joint, but it's not for me. Again we were talking about who has the best mixer, Reason does, and that's not just coming from me. I mean look at it and it's functionality vs Sonars or Protools or Logic or whatever software system is out there. It's even better that waves 4000g Series because it's the 9000k which is better than the 4000G in software and hardware. I have worked on both in the hardware world, if someone gave me a choice 4000G SSL vs SSl 9000K hardware desk, I am taking the 9000k, because it's the newest model with features that the 4000 series don't have. Having more hits with the 4000 is because it was out FIRST! Now pro mixers are going towards the 9000K because it's the 9000k!!! Price wise, waves 4000G series is ridiculously expensive, WHY? Because of THE WAVES NAME? hmmmm I don't have to pay that for the 9000k it comes already with Reason which isn't even a DAW. Waves 4000 SSL cost just as much as Reason as a whole program. I almost bought into that and PH saved me from having to buy that. Only thing I did was concentrate on buying sounds and boy do I love sounds lol I never have to worry about SSL board.

By no means bro can I say Sonar as a program is wack, that's not what I advocate here, it's a dope program, Logic also, Reaper too. But I use Protools and Reason on DIFFERENT OCCASIONS. Me I would use Protools over Sonar. Just like you said you don't worry about what someone else uses and I support that. We were just having a convo that's all. But I know at the end of the day, in major studios, Protools is the top gunner and Logic, and all others are OPTIONAL soft wares based on the census of clients that ask for those programs when they get to that studio. But we all know the whole Protools rig set up from HD Excel 1, 2, or 3 TDM effects run the major studios. If anyone can name one major studio around the world that runs with Sonar as the primary then surprise me.

I know my tools and wouldn't give them up, because I know what I can get out of them, from what I am thinking in my head. MPC, Protools, and Reason is my way, I always say you should at least have two programs and Protools is that secondary piece, because especially since it's in major studios with Avid made desk to them, and I have worked on the Icon, D-Command, and also SSL Desk also.

So if Sonar gives you that thing then use it, I will never say you shouldn't use it, that's not my case. First off I would never take Sonar and compare it to Reason, because Reason is not meant to be a DAW, I would put Sonar vs Cubase, Sonar VS Protools, etc, not Reason. PH has basically strategically put Reason in a class by it's self yet others try to place it with DAWs. Reason is what it started out to be, ONE BIG ARSE SUPED UP SOUND MODULE ON STEROIDS THAT HAS A SEQUENCER THAT CAN RECORD!!! It doesn't do Video, for a reason, it doesn't do VST's for a reason, yet it has options to do both, when you use rewire, bounce to disk or soundflower or Jack.

Is Reason 6 worth to buy? Oh hell yes it is, because of what it is, price wise also, CPU stability etc. I have no issues with CPU Stability on my computer, I know others that do, don't know what the problem is, maybe their computer. I can open up 10 Reason sessions on one computer at the same time, you can't do that with Sonar, Protools, Logic etc, not saying that function is seriously necessary but the thing is you can do it. There are time I have a sound in another Session and I want to see if it can go in another session I can just open that session up without closing down and drag and drop that sound into that session. You can't even open up one other session in those other DAWS why? Because of the codecs and they are DAWS, Reason isn't.

End result great music and to satisfy customers, that's our job as producers.

Peace.

 

[Xabiton]

Hey I agree with you on that. I could careless what anyone else use also. Cause at the end of the day the customer don't care, they want the hot track with dope lyrics. WE as producers are to critical sometimes and I have learned years ago to curve that. Yet you have those or others that try to tell me different. Hey Sonar is a dope joint, but it's not for me. Again we were talking about who has the best mixer, Reason does, and that's not just coming from me. I mean look at it and it's functionality vs Sonars or Protools or Logic or whatever software system is out there. It's even better that waves 4000g Series because it's the 9000k which is better than the 4000G in software and hardware. I have worked on both in the hardware world, if someone gave me a choice 4000G SSL vs SSl 9000K hardware desk, I am taking the 9000k, because it's the newest model with features that the 4000 series don't have. Having more hits with the 4000 is because it was out FIRST! Now pro mixers are going towards the 9000K because it's the 9000k!!! Price wise, waves 4000G series is ridiculously expensive, WHY? Because of THE WAVES NAME? hmmmm I don't have to pay that for the 9000k it comes already with Reason which isn't even a DAW. Waves 4000 SSL cost just as much as Reason as a whole program. I almost bought into that and PH saved me from having to buy that. Only thing I did was concentrate on buying sounds and boy do I love sounds lol I never have to worry about SSL board.

By no means bro can I say Sonar as a program is wack, that's not what I advocate here, it's a dope program, Logic also, Reaper too. But I use Protools and Reason on DIFFERENT OCCASIONS. Me I would use Protools over Sonar. Just like you said you don't worry about what someone else uses and I support that. We were just having a convo that's all. But I know at the end of the day, in major studios, Protools is the top gunner and Logic, and all others are OPTIONAL soft wares based on the census of clients that ask for those programs when they get to that studio. But we all know the whole Protools rig set up from HD Excel 1, 2, or 3 TDM effects run the major studios. If anyone can name one major studio around the world that runs with Sonar as the primary then surprise me.

I know my tools and wouldn't give them up, because I know what I can get out of them, from what I am thinking in my head. MPC, Protools, and Reason is my way, I always say you should at least have two programs and Protools is that secondary piece, because especially since it's in major studios with Avid made desk to them, and I have worked on the Icon, D-Command, and also SSL Desk also.

So if Sonar gives you that thing then use it, I will never say you shouldn't use it, that's not my case. First off I would never take Sonar and compare it to Reason, because Reason is not meant to be a DAW, I would put Sonar vs Cubase, Sonar VS Protools, etc, not Reason. PH has basically strategically put Reason in a class by it's self yet others try to place it with DAWs. Reason is what it started out to be, ONE BIG ARSE SUPED UP SOUND MODULE ON STEROIDS THAT HAS A SEQUENCER THAT CAN RECORD!!! It doesn't do Video, for a reason, it doesn't do VST's for a reason, yet it has options to do both, when you use rewire, bounce to disk or soundflower or Jack.

Is Reason 6 worth to buy? Oh hell yes it is, because of what it is, price wise also, CPU stability etc. I have no issues with CPU Stability on my computer, I know others that do, don't know what the problem is, maybe their computer. I can open up 10 Reason sessions on one computer at the same time, you can't do that with Sonar, Protools, Logic etc, not saying that function is seriously necessary but the thing is you can do it. There are time I have a sound in another Session and I want to see if it can go in another session I can just open that session up without closing down and drag and drop that sound into that session. You can't even open up one other session in those other DAWS why? Because of the codecs and they are DAWS, Reason isn't.

End result great music and to satisfy customers, that's our job as producers.

Peace.

I think Reason is just as much a DAW as Sonar actually. They just have different focuses like all DAWs. Cakewalk really focuses on audio recording vs Reason which really focuses on cool instruments. They are actually a nice pairing.

 

[rahimnyc44]

I think Reason is just as much a DAW as Sonar actually. They just have different focuses like all DAWs. Cakewalk really focuses on audio recording vs Reason which really focuses on cool instruments. They are actually a nice pairing.

I agree with you on paper and by definition it's a DAW but by PH's category marketing scheme it's not a DAW, so I prefer to go by what PH's said "IT'S NOT A DAW IT'S MADE FOR MUSICIANS".

I agree again, it is focused on instruments that's why I said it's one big suped up sound module on steroids. I don't know of any program that's like it. Now it has became evident that it focuses on effects, recording, making music and editing also, and will keep improving.

If you're pairing up Reason with Sonar then you have a kick arse work flow, for me though I don't pair it up with Protools don't need to. Some people have Reason and they swear by it and that's the only program they need. I agree with them, I already bought into Protools and have the great interface, and it has some qualities I like about that interface, and the chips. Having to know Protools put me in a better pilot seat when dealing with a Major studio, by mouse, controller or Avids own made desk tops mix desk I can use Protools without any worries because I know it, so it benefits me to keep it than to get rid of it.

So I agree with you.

 

[901_Rice_Street]

As soon as Reason creates a sampler with pitchshift/ timestretch.....and a better noise gate.....and adds noise removal.......hiss removal................I'm 100% Reason again. I feel that Prop could make a better way of rewiring......like a new kind of rewire that allows you to use it's instruments only so you don't have a big ass reason screen full of shit + the other DAW. Shit would be dope.

 

[rahimnyc44]

Huh? Reason has pitch shift, and two variations of time stretch is imo is efficient and so easy to use. As far as a gate, the SSL board has one, I think the RV7000 does also, and you can make a gate if you want. Hiss removal? Are you recording hissed sounds?

As soon as Reason creates a sampler with pitchshift/ timestretch.....and a better noise gate.....and adds noise removal.......hiss removal................I'm 100% Reason again. I feel that Prop could make a better way of rewiring......like a new kind of rewire that allows you to use it's instruments only so you don't have a big ass reason screen full of shit + the other DAW. Shit would be dope.

 

[901_Rice_Street]

Huh? Reason has pitch shift, and two variations of time stretch is imo is efficient and so easy to use. As far as a gate, the SSL board has one, I think the RV7000 does also, and you can make a gate if you want. Hiss removal? Are you recording hissed sounds?

Keyword a SAMPLER with pitchshift/timestretch. Meaning instead of going into the sequencer to do these things or even the creativity of using neptune to alter a sound, I hit keys on the midi controller and as I go up and down the keys it never effects the pitch......or if I put in a loop it plays along with the bpm (or do some very creative yet easy stretching while messing with the parameters of the sampler live. Like Battery 3 does....like Sampletank does...like some other ones do. What you would have to do in Reason is change the pitch a bunch of times in the sequencer, chop them up, save them, load them up in a sampler NNXT, Kong, ect.



And also....I've messed with way better noise gates than the one in R6....it's very disappointing......compared to a vst like The Prefix by bootsy. I guess it's suppose to be like the ssl mixer gate.......but the waves ssl gate is a lot tighter than R6.

Nope....no noise removal in R6....no hiss removal.




I use the restoration tools that came with Magix Music maker 5 or something. People send me song ideas recorded from their laptop mics to recreate for them. Removing the noise and adding reverb to their vocals gives them that "OMG!!!!!!I LOVE YOU!!!" effect. And telling them after that..."yeah it's just a skeleton of the idea for when you are ready to really record" they get amped to consentrate on that song....(a little too much sometimes).

 

[Xabiton]

As soon as Reason creates a sampler with pitchshift/ timestretch.....and a better noise gate.....and adds noise removal.......hiss removal................I'm 100% Reason again. I feel that Prop could make a better way of rewiring......like a new kind of rewire that allows you to use it's instruments only so you don't have a big ass reason screen full of shit + the other DAW. Shit would be dope.

the problem with making a different variations of rewire is that everyone would want something different and I bet it would make it more difficult for other people to implement. The whole propellerhead philosophy is making something that works most of the time really efficiently. Not saying its a bad idea just saying don't hold your breath.

for those in the know... what would be the differences between sonar x1 mixer with wave ssl 4000 on each track vs the Reason mixer?

could someone please explain to me how Reason 6 with the mixer, efx, and devices cost $400 but the waves ssl4000 plugin cost $650?

how does Wave get away with this... how could they still be in business...

another point... if money is not an issues... why use rewire if you can afford a DAW, komplete ultimate 8 (better synths, efx, and sample library than Reason), omnisphere (no devices in Reason are in the same class), trillian (no refills available that sounds better), stylus rmx, east/west (top notch piano, string, etc... no comparison in refills), wave ssl4000 (1000s and 1000s of hit records made with this plugin) and have the ability to add more as needed?

Reason is a nice product... but to say Reason can compete with any DAW and vst/i that are available is pretty silly...

again... Reason cost $400 and Wave SSL4000 cost $650... how could Wave get away with this? how could any company that charges more than $400 for eq, compression, etc combination stay in business... during these rough times!!!

business 101 talks about supply and demand... if the mixer in Reason is better than other products on the market... then the other companies that make these products would be out of business... or would have drove the prices of these other products down... that is business 101... none of that is going on...

now if an individual... only had $400 to spend on music making products... Reason would be first on the list...

we all love our tools... but to ever think that Reason by itself can complete with other combinations of products on the market is pretty silly!!!

That would be like saying Komplete isn't all that great because its only $500 so how can it compete with Omnisphere which is $480 and is only 1 instrument vs 28. Or saying that Nexus must be better than Kontakt because it costs more. I could honestly go out and buy Komplete today if I wanted to its not about affording and a lot of people feel that way. I honestly really like Reason and I got the update Sonar for its editing Reason tracks mainly. That said tools are just tools use what you want/like but why knock the next man for doing the same. You make it sound like people are clueless because they don't work like you do. Everyone has different needs based on their own situation.

 

[901_Rice_Street]

Reason Plug in VST pack........$199 with factory sounds.....SOLD!!! Shit...just sell the Redrum at least. Or somebody make a knock off of it or something. Damn I love redrum.

 

[Xabiton]

Reason Plug in VST pack........$199 with factory sounds.....SOLD!!! Shit...just sell the Redrum at least. Or somebody make a knock off of it or something. Damn I love redrum.

theres a freeware knock off of the redrum. Biggrome posted it a while back I wanna say it was on kvr idk

my point is you get what you pay for... plus... if you read my post again... i was talking about komplete ultimate 8... but anyways... komplete is collection of synths that are basically 10 years (i do not use the synths in komplete because they are little long in the tooth)... the sample libraries are a collection of samples that have been collected by NI over the years... nothing really new... just re-package.... and if you sit down with the sample libraries that comes with komplete you could hear the difference between them and refills.. with Omnipshere... it is a product build from the ground up... specstrasonics developed their own technology i.e. STEAM and SAGE... what technology has NI created? i could go deeper if needed... but these are just a few concepts that jump of the page....

that's fine but Komplete ultimate 8 is also $1,000. That's why I brought up the standard Komplete with Nexus Reason and Omnisphere since they are all in the same price range. I do not think any of those tools are better than the other outright its just one is better for someone else than the other.

i can speak on Nexus because i do not own it or have tested it out... do you own it or tested it out?

I have tested it. It has some good presets but it was not what I needed. Wasn't flexible enough for me.

lets not go there... please!!! lets not go there...

why its true. I am actually debating on grabbing it but I think I am going to wait until the new version comes out. The extra presets would be useful sometimes it will reduce the time spent programming sounds which is useful sometimes. Actually I had Komplete in my hand and decided to get Balance instead.

when you talk of editing... is that audio or midi... do you create in Reason... then bounce midi/audio tracks... and import them into Sonar... then bounce those tracks and bring them back into Reason? the fact that you use Sonar to do whatever you do with it... basically... validates my point... if Reason was the best thing since slice bread... there would be no need for Sonar... i bet... if you just used Sonar... your music will sound exactly the same as with Reason... the individual... is making the actual music not the software!!! another point... you stated... you brought Sonar because the lack of editing capabilities in Reason... right? isnt that a limitation? is editing that important you... why not find a product that fits all your needs... one stop shopping... you brought up quantizing audio... Reason does not do audio quaniting... that sounds like a limitation for you too...

all i am saying... there are products on the market that can do everything Reason can and more... period... simple as that... but when i read the "yeast"... i just bring to the table... that there are "better" products on market....

has nothing to do with what i use or not... fl studio, which i do not use, is also a killer app... so is DP... so is Logic and the list goes on and on... and these products do not have the limitations that Reason does...

All kinds of editing but midi mostly. I have been using Reason with Sonar since 2005 off and on there was a point where I even just used Sonar and hard synths/samplers. It wasn't about a lack really more so than a preference. I really like how the editing works in Sonar more so than in Reason even though I can use both. I prefer sequencing in Sonar over Reason even though I can sequence in both. I didn't do it for the sake of limitations but because I wanted the option to work another way if I so choose to. I have some vsts and have had them for a few years. I don't speak much about them because there was no real need to.

no!!! go back and read my post... i have written... Reason is a nice product... but when i read it is "better" than this and that... and having to own it since version one... and knowing the limitations first hand... it raises a red flag... my personality sez hold on... that is not right? Reason discussions take place on this forum all the time... it makes me no difference who uses what... but when the discussion becomes full of "yeast"... i feel a need to balance the discussion...

Better is subjective. It may not be better to you but to someone else it might be perfect. In a way you're holding everyone else to your standards for what you feel is important while not realizing they have their own set of standards of whats important. I also do not mind limitations much as long as the program works for me. That's why I keep Reason around for me and how I create it just works most of the time. Sonar wasn't a NEED purchase I just wanted it because I thought it looked great. I am still getting the hang of the updates since I haven't upgraded in like 3 versions but I am liking it a lot thus far.

one point... you forgetting... there are young impressionable ndividuals on this forum... what is wrong with giving them a balance view... plus... i seem to get a few "likes" on my posts too... just like i do not agree with some of the stuff written here... there are some who agree with me... some of these individuals are too afraid to speak... I WILL DO THE SPEAKING!!!!

young impressionable individuals should find what works best for them. I get likes too don't care much about them. I agree with some of the stuff you say and do but others I do not. Example you often say you cannot judge a product you do not own. I disagree I can demo a product and have a good pov about it. I could pirate a product and become an expert with it but have never owned it. I try out a lot of different things but I only buy what really sticks out to me with the exception of Reason which I bought because of a Recommendation in 2002 when I didn't know better.

please point out where i think individuals are clueless... please!!! NO... two individuals works alike... not sure what your point is... i agree... individuals do have different needs... but to "yeast" your needs is another story....

i forgot to ask... which Sonar X1 did you get...Essential, Studio, Producer, Production suite?

i ask because Sonar X1 Producer with the ProChannel, Session Drummer, Dimension Pro, Master Effects, True Piano, Producer Effects sounds nice...

Studio. I thought the Pro Channel came with Studio but it didn't and I realized the demo I grabbed was for Producer. There is a ton of stuff in there too. I will more than likely grab Production suite in a couple months after I am comfortable with Studio. I wanted to get my hands on Pro Channel and the smart midi tools. Since downloading I have found a love for the new browser and multidock too.

And point out to me where I said you said they were clueless. I said you make it appear that they are. Personally I generally know what I am looking for and I take my time before making a purchase. There are exceptions to this rule if something just screams out to me right away Ill grab it but other times I may spend months or even a year debating on it. I am a cheap ass and have no real problems saying that. I understand that you get what you pay for and I believe in that so more often than not I try to only buy what I really want unless its like under $100.

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

ACID Pro is really not a good program for beat making all I use it for is to chop up samples. Pro Tools is similar to Reason but in a less diverse way if that makes sense. Imo a lot of the Pro Tools sounds all sound to similar. Pro Tools also has A LOT of errors and instead of saying the problem it just gives you a bunch of numbers. FL Studio is great, my favorite until I got Reason. It was upsetting but then when you look up a tutorial and you understand how it works it becomes a great and easy software. Reason just gives you the feel of having many sounds at your disposal. It's more customizable, you can get a sound and then add some tweaks to it if there's some things you don't like about the sound. And I think Reason has the best sound bank, even though it can't run VST's they give you free ReFills (Basically like sound banks) on the website.

tl;dr: Reason and FL Studio are both amazing for making beats but Reason gives you more of a customizable personal feel. Pro Tools is good for audio engineering but not for making beats imo and ACID Pro is good for chopping samples.
You can download demo's for all these programs though.

I was an Acid Pro user for a while and swore by it until I got Sonar. Last version I owned was 5. I think its a good program for making beats it just doesn't work like everything else does. Its very loop based. If you do not sample much you may not like it alot. If you want to use midi with it you may like it even less. If you are a mouse programmer than I think Acid is the way to go.

 

[901_Rice_Street]

theres a freeware knock off of the redrum. Biggrome posted it a while back I wanna say it was on kvr idk

tatapoum - A VST drummachine made with SynthEdit - Google Project Hosting
It crashes plus it never sync's to the bpm. A lot of freeware stuff don't sync. It's one that's cool it syncs and all but it just too small. I hate using that shit.

I knew I should've got Guru. Didn't need it or cared for it. Don't like Geist. Too big.

 

[Xabiton]

i beg to differ... Nexus, even though i do not own or test it, cant touch omnisphere as far as synth and synth programming goes... there is no doubt about that... Nexus, even though i do not own or test it, cant touch the acoustic instruments in komplete (i.e scarbee basses, vintage key, organ, session pro, abbey roads drums 60/70/80, modern drummer, etc)... there is no doubt about that...

well of course nexus 1 instrument cannot compete with komplete's 27 or 28 lol. Nor did I say that omnisphere is better or worse but it sells for a reason. Someone out there likes it and may prefer it to over either of those tools. Are you saying that your opinion is more valid than theirs is for their own needs? That's where I am coming from. Individual needs differ from person to person. Lets take Rice's post for example. I personally dislike the redrum. I don't much care for step sequencing in general. So his needs vs my needs are different. For me Kong is a great drum machine and does everything I need it to plus some when it comes to using sampleddrums. For others that may not be the case.

"flexible" is such a vague word... how about a little more detail... with Nexus... you load a sound/patch and trigger it with a midi device... it has parameters (i.e. env, osc, etc)... right? multi-timbral... right? not sure what you mean about "flexible"...

Its a sample based preset machine. You jump from preset to preset until u find the preset you need. It has a few parameters that you can play with but for the most part its not something u can really get down and dirty with as far as sound creation is concerned. But for some people that may be all they need from a plug in. If that's the case its simple setup could be perfect for a lot of people. Just not me. Not as a go to thing anyway maybe in the future if I decide I want to only use presets I would likely jump on to nexus.

are you saying that refills are comparable with top of the line vsti? a sequencer is a sequencer... most sequencer are basically the same (except for ableton and fl studio)... set the tempo, 2/4/8/16 bar loop, create a track, load a patch/sound and record midi data... when it comes to the sound... vsti wins everytime... nothing subjective about that... the most serious of Reason users have vsti(s)!!!

Again subjective. Better to you may not be better to me. There are people out there who for example say all software sounds like shit. Then there are people who say the same about hardware synths/samplers. I will agree more often than not vsti has better presets. But not all of us are looking for that so again subjective. There is no right or wrong answer here. If there was we would all be using the same thing. Everyone is different.

in some cases... but when you are brain washed with "yeast"... it may be tough for a young impressionable individual... this young impressionable youth may actually think the refills sound better than vsti... whereas... a young impressionable youth could download free vsti that sound better than refills... again... i own Reason since version one!!!

And I have owned Reason since version 2. I am missing your point about ownership. I don't see any brain washing going on I see a difference in opinion. You want me to accept that vsti is better than Reason as fact and I do not unless we are talking about presets then more often than not vsti wins. I don't call better presets being a better instrument. Better is based on whats best for me.

oh!!! you upgraded from Studio to Studio?

funny!!! Pro Channel is model after SSL... i was just wondering if it could compare with Reason mixer... being that they both emula[te the SSL!!!!

I upgraded from version 4 to version x1 (11 whatever they wanna call it) I think the Pro Channel is more flexible because they are doing updates to it and adding more pieces plus it has modern and vintage modes where the SSL in Reason does not.

Either way I am going to say this and dead the argument at least from me. Better is subjective. There are guys who swear by Motifs out there guys who swear by vintage synths and guys who only use software. We all believe we are right and those of us who have get the desired results are equally right. As much as you speak of brain washing here you are doing a lot of it here as well by pushing your own opinions as facts. Best/better is up to the user of said tool and when one is looking at their next purchase I would hope that they use their own judgement based on their own needs and educated themselves with more information than just what is posted on any internet forum by a complete stranger especially if we have not heard that person's music before or even worse dislike the music they are making. That was not a shot at you btw but saying that people should educate themselves and find out exactly what they really want and if that is Reason then by all means use Reason if its not Reason don't waste your money on a tool that you will not enjoy or grow with. Making music is supposed to be fun. To me sound creation is fun. I try not to think about it as a science or make sure that I am on the newest bestest thing out there. I am just having fun using what I use because I use it. I don't try to figure out what's better than what I already have because I don't care if the tools I am using are working for me. If at some point I decide that I need something new or something more I am glad that the options are available to me but I am not overly worried about it otherwise.

 

[rahimnyc44]

Keyword a SAMPLER with pitchshift/timestretch. Meaning instead of going into the sequencer to do these things or even the creativity of using neptune to alter a sound, I hit keys on the midi controller and as I go up and down the keys it never effects the pitch......or if I put in a loop it plays along with the bpm (or do some very creative yet easy stretching while messing with the parameters of the sampler live. Like Battery 3 does....like Sampletank does...like some other ones do. What you would have to do in Reason is change the pitch a bunch of times in the sequencer, chop them up, save them, load them up in a sampler NNXT, Kong, ect.
.

Ok, understood you want this, but why on earth would PH's make this type of SAMPLER when they already have it period? So you want it twice in one program? I DON'T GET THAT. Reason has live sampling but what you want is to do what you said off that SAMPLER instead of going into the sequencer. Reason isn't built that way. IMO it makes no sense to do that twice when they have that already. What is the big deal that you need it on the sampler? I would be more concerned of HAVING IT PERIOD!!!

Noise and hiss reduction, maybe one day they will have a special unit for that, but for me I don't have hiss problems etc. Maybe you should go to Props and request that, I mean it's a good idea to present.

---------- Post added at 06:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:29 PM ----------

LOL dammm all this typing lol Ok, saying just cause Waves cost $600 SSL 4000G is better than Reason 9000k Is silly!!!

See I can show you better than I can tell you, I will use my 9000k up against ANYONE who thinks Waves 4000K is better do your beat with Waves and I will do a beat with the 9000k. For the fact that the 9000K has the WIDTH button is like butter on bread!!! Sweet!!! You can precisely without worries pan in exact position when using the width button with pan. You can have one instrument at 1 O'Clock and have another instrument directly next to it between 1&2 O'clock and they won't clash!! to make it even sweeter EQ frequencies cut and boost and just a tad bit of movement you hear the change!! Just like a hardware SSL, and the hardware doesn't even have a width button on it like that, GREAT THINKING PROPS ON THAT ONE!

In the hardware desk world the 9000k smacks the hell out of the 4000, 6000 and 8000 series hands down! No the 4000 isn't bad but there is another option OVER IT, and that is THE SSL9000K!!! Waves is using it's name to sell with a high prices that's all. The average Jo wouldn't buy Waves, because they can't afford it. The SSL 9000k is definitely top quality and is no slouch trust that. Gary Bromham definitely says it's good. I am glad I didn't buy into the Waves 4000 SSL, I am so happy I was patient!!!

---------- Post added at 08:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------

for those in the know... what would be the differences between sonar x1 mixer with wave ssl 4000 on each track vs the Reason mixer?

could someone please explain to me how Reason 6 with the mixer, efx, and devices cost $400 but the waves ssl4000 plugin cost $650?

how does Wave get away with this... how could they still be in business.

Lets see what's the difference here is.

1. the difference clearly was stated here, Sonar x1 with Waves 4000 SSL. My very point was "THERE'S NO SOFTWARE RECORDING SYSTEM THAT COMES WITH A BETTER MIXER THAN REASON'S SSL 9000K!!! So automatically Waves HAS TO BE THROWN in to even try to equal the 9000k but in all matter it will never do because the 4000 is just that and the 9000 is the newer better mixer in the software or hardware world. I was matching up the Reason's mixer up against, Sonar, Logic, Protools (which I have), Nuendo, Digital Performer, whatever. So if one has to bring in a 3rd party mixer that means that software isn't up to par on it's mixer!!! BAmmmmm !!!! That would be like asking is Waves SSL 4000 mixer better than Reason 14:2 Mixer? I would have to bow out and say ABSOLUTELY YES!!! But being we have the 9000k I don't have to say yes I say NOPE! Reason by fact not opinion doesn't need another mixer, all you need is the 9000k! It would crazy of me to say "YOU KNOW WHAT 9000K IS WACK I NEED VST SUPPORT SO I CAN USE WAVES 4000 SSL" lol hahah I would actually going backwards!!! So that's the difference right there THE 9000K COMES with Reason and other softwares doesn't have it, you need to spend extra for it.

2. Price, again I don't have to spend dough for a mixer, the upgrade from the 14:2 mixer to the 9000K was a pretty big dam leap. All you have to do is pay for Reason and you get all that, sequencer, effects, mixer etc for $400 bucks, yet you gotta buy Sonar/Protools/Logic/Cubase etc then on top of that buy Waves SSL that cost $680 dollars? I can have top quality sound radio ready music with the $400 Reason. GUARANTEED. I have mixes right now that I have done, Olivia Broadfield don't get her stuff mastered!!! She sends her stuff straight to her people!!! Sonar full price no upgrade $449, and Waves SSL 4000 680, how homie said it ? YOU DO THE MATH!!! That's $1,129 dollars!!! Reason is $400 bucks full version.

3. Waves as a VST, as you know if you try to open up 20 Wave VSTs on a saved budget home studio cost computer it will drain the hell outta your computer!!! You can open up 50 rows of laid out SSL9000k in Reason and it won't even blink!!! The ones who benefit to open up a lot of Waves 4000 SSL mixers in a session are those in major studios because they are working on a HD system which has nothing to do with the computer and Waves is coming off the chips on the HD system, and they will be TDM not native. That's the difference.

4. Flexibility, this may not be important to some but the 9000k is more flexible in Reason than the 4000 Waves. Everything is laid in front of you, efx, EQ's, compression, etc, all infused to the track.

5. Width button, 4000 Waves series don't have that button, this is a great feature, tiny as it may seem, you can do some serious pan mixing using that button, PRECISELY!!! When I heard how it worked and I used the pan with it, I was in shock, move it just one milli move and you can hear the difference. That's one of the reasons pro mixers all loving this thing.

6. The higher in number for those thousands series is the better and updated model. The 9000k is going to be better and have better circuitry than the 4000, 5000, 6000, and 8000 series. They have 9000-j and 9000k and the 9000k is an updated version of the 9000-J so as it stand the 9000K is better!!! If Props said they modeled after the 9000K then that's better than the 4000!!! When waves come with 9000k series then we can talk!!!

Waves get away with their high pricing because major studios buy into their marketing and it's NAME!!! Waves is a good product but there are those that don't like waves and say McDSP is better or something else. PREFERENCE, I ain't going to live I like waves also. 2 things HIGH IN COST AND CPU KILLA!!! So they got their little native market also but that's why their in business. Their product quality is good also, can't leave that out, but just because I recognize that should I be trying to ditch Reason? No!!! Bottom line is I am good at what I do and I can get the same results with Reason's SSL 9000k as one could with Protools and Waves SSL 4000, that's all I am saying and Reason 6 is worth it. I don't try to coerce anyone to buying anything if they ask the question I will give them answer if I can.

 

[MR44khz]

Stop trying to ****ing battle people with weak ass reason! You use a shit load of shit but you want us to believe you used only reason. I wish i owned the waves plug-in i would battle you on video with just logic and the waves 4000 to shut you the **** up! Lets see you use nothing but ****ing reason refills and i'll use nothing but logic, show it on screen and lets see which daw is clearer and better. I'm not battling you beat wise i'm battling you on the bullshit you be talking about reason. Btw that monotron on your soundcloud sounds like shit!

(edit)Disregard all of this because no amount of videos or proof will get you off of PHEAD nuts!

 

[901_Rice_Street]

Ok, understood you want this, but why on earth would PH's make this type of SAMPLER when they already have it period? So you want it twice in one program? I DON'T GET THAT. Reason has live sampling but what you want is to do what you said off that SAMPLER instead of going into the sequencer. Reason isn't built that way. IMO it makes no sense to do that twice when they have that already. What is the big deal that you need it on the sampler? I would be more concerned of HAVING IT PERIOD!!!

My problem with sampletank is it don't chop samples. You have to chop ahead of time and then load. I want sampletank functions inside the NNXT badly!!!!!!!! Or sampletank to chop samples. I don't own battery 3....thinking about it. But as sson as I do reason will give me what I want and then I'll have yet another useless vst. (well...battery 3 does come with like 12 gigs or something like that worth of drums and sounds.)

What's important about it? Well....say you are working on a remix. You may have an idea for it....might not. You might want to use a drum loop (might not). Say you want to use a drum loop to spark an idea. Of course you can use all of the rex files of chops you made.....what if you don't have recycle? Pitch shifting in the sapmler allows you to switch inbetween different drum loops on the fly and they are already syncs......awesome....open door for creativity......set an arrangement quickly...choose the best drum loop/combination of loops/ riffs...ect.....twist knobs with the loop on the fly. When I want to spark an idea......I don't want to rely on the sequencer for that. I do for editing....that's what is great about pitch shifting in the sequencer....stretching in the sequencer. Thinking.."man...I did all of that but maybe It will all sound better at 98 bpms instead of 94bpm. Or....I want to add a change right here but the sample is going to be off timing if replay it. I can change the sample or recording to fit the new bridge I'm about to lay down (since I'm focused on editing and not creating the idea). Now I can change the pitch right there in my editing work area at the click of a button.

 

[MR44khz]

Good vid,aint nothing in reason that can **** with that or **** with logics physical modeling period!!!

---------- Post added at 09:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 PM ----------

Dude aint gone show no videos with someone using just Reason nothing else just stock sounds and samples. We can show vid after vid of other daws that are better he can't! He wants to show you beats that he got mastered then come back and act like he did it in Reason. I've seen his quotes from PH where he admits getting his stuff mastered,but he'll say he did the whole thing in reason. That's why i don't come here much dudes like that (gearsluts) throw me off! I'm going to try and ignore this dude for real. anyway Reason can't compete with this.
Tip #38 - Sculpture (fixed) - YouTube

My problem with sampletank is it don't chop samples. You have to chop ahead of time and then load. I want sampletank functions inside the NNXT badly!!!!!!!! Or sampletank to chop samples. I don't own battery 3....thinking about it. But as sson as I do reason will give me what I want and then I'll have yet another useless vst. (well...battery 3 does come with like 12 gigs or something like that worth of drums and sounds.)

What's important about it? Well....say you are working on a remix. You may have an idea for it....might not. You might want to use a drum loop (might not). Say you want to use a drum loop to spark an idea. Of course you can use all of the rex files of chops you made.....what if you don't have recycle? Put switching inbetween different drums on the fly and they are already syncs......awesome....open door for creativity......set an arrangement quickly. When I want to spark an idea......I don't want to rely on the sequencer for that. I do for editing....that's what is great about pitch shifting in the sequencer....stretching in the sequencer. Thinking.."man...I did all of that but maybe It will all sound better at 98 bpms instead of 94bpm. Or....I want to add a change right here but the sample is going to be off timing if replay it. I can change the sample or recording to fit the new bridge I'm about to lay down (since I'm focused on editing and not creating the idea). Now I can change the pitch right there in my editing work area at the click of a button.

 

[901_Rice_Street]

^^^^^^Reason is a beast though. It's just a little late on my new workflow. All that R6 has, I've been doing in Cubase a long time ago. Hell...Acid pro a long time ago. But it's still a beast of a DAW especial when recording live instruments. Being able to combine two different recordings on the fly is some beast mode shit....I loooooooooooove that shit. R6 is my second favorite editor. Once they get the timestretching/ pitchshifting inside the NNXT and/or Kong........man!!!! Imagine recording a crazy sound live in the nnxt.....chopping it and altering the chops in the NNXT and playing with it in pitch shift mode......THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT...quick fast and in a hurry messing with shit. But right now that shit start sounding funny at higher keys. And really...none of the pitch shifting plugs are "super great" yet.....but they are getting there. R7 may have the closest to perfect of them all. As you press higher keys it is less "robotic" sounding and stuff like that.

 

[MR44khz]

Man i been down that road too long with phead,waiting for them to do what real daws have been doing for years,it got old for me. Once i finish these last few songs i'm selling it or if my kids want it i'll let them play with it because it's on a kids level anyway. The only reason i used it is because i was too lazy to learn logic,but once you learn logic you think Reason is just a toy. If i were you i would jump ship now and fully learn cubase (if you don't already) because waiting on phead will get you nowhere. I bet you what you're looking for won't be in v7,v8, or v9 lol. Reason is a baby daw phead don't want to confuse the rookies by making it more advanced.