What tonearm height do you use for your Ortofon Concordes?

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.....

I stand corrected!
But in practical terms, as soon as you apply any tracking force the tonearm skates towards the label of the record (on a smooth piece of vinyl).
And then when you increase the anti-skate it skates back out towards the edge of the record - hence my reasoning that anti-skate adds a force towards the outside of the record?
Also when you look inside a Technics the anti-skate is just a wire which pushes past the tonearm pivot towards the label - hence pulling the tonearm outwards?
Also i'll take a guess that the specs of Ortofon Dj carts are all to do with the magnet in the stylus assembly, not the cart - and i'll wait to be corrected on this!
Cheers
:confused:
 
It is so great to have someone actually from Ortofon discussing with users here! There are many of those 'pro' guys around here now.. Native Instruments, Image Line (Floops), Denon, etc.

This is great!
 
If you cannot get the tonearm low enough, and you are using a concorde, you can always put on a second slipmat. I occasionally see people do that, and it does not seem to hurt performance at all. I got the OMs so I could put the weight on to give it extra height and adjust the overhang myself (...and as said before, it is considerably cheaper). As far as changing the stylii, I think that any stylus will work in any ortofon, but it is hard to really win out. Say that instead of two $90 night club OMs, you get one NC and one black pro for $30 or whatever... You can put the nightclubs on and sit back like a baller for half a year of so until you get two broken stylii, and then if you pay retail, you go down another $100 (this is assuming that you consider the pro stylii worthless and that you pay retail $50 for a stylus). That totals up to $220 for a year of carts, compared to $180 if you just buy the NCs. Buying two pros and four NC stylii this way would equal $260. Not trying to become an ortofon salesman, but I do think the NC OMs are the way to go...
-Peasant Nikon
 
:sing: The Holidays have kept me and my family kinda busy. I havn't forgot about this thread, so will try to answer all your questions sometime this weekend or right after New Years.
I wish all of you, and your families, a very Happy , and safe, New Year !
 
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Phew, just got done reading through this thread, and I must say THANK YOU for the information Frank (if we're on a first-name basis ;) )! Proper TT and cartridge setup seems to be one of the most complicated and hazy areas, and the wealth of information you have provided in this post is greatly appreciated! It got me set straight on a whole bunch of issues, and I know the info is correct because, as dynagroove said, it's coming straight from the horse's mouth :D

(And, no, I don't think you're a horse!)
 
wow, 5 star thread!

so then mr ortofon inc (:D), do you know if there are any plans to make a cartridge with (i hate to compare!) better tracking than m447's? that would be a feat!

also, pink isnt really my colour :)
 
I thought I posted this already, but I guess I'm losing my mind.

Anyway, has Ortofon discontinued any of their cartridges/stylii? I was in DJ Supply in metro Detroit and asked them how much Nightclub stylii were. He said that Ortofon has discontinued a lot of their products and that only kept the pro, DJ, and scratch cartridges and stylii. Is this true? I'm close to needing new stylii for my NCs. If so, what stylii are the best to use on my NCs?
 
I really doubt that ortofon discontinued nightclubs, but I will say that if ortofon drops nightclubs, I will promptly drop ortofon. I think that the rest of the line pales in comparison to what else is out there...
-Peasant Nikon
 
I haven't used any other Ortofon carts, so I can't compare them to my NCs. But I love my NCs and like the look of them. I don't want to use pro or DJ stylii in my nightclub carts. I've looked at Musicians Friend and PSSL and they both have the NC stylii in stock for $49.
 
Do NOT buy replacement ortofon cartridges unless you get a hell of a deal. When my carts go dead, I hop down to my record store and buy another OM nightclub. At my record store, stylii are $50 each, but an OM is $90 with two stylii. By buying the cartridge, you not only save $5 or more a stylus, but you get an extra cart in case one of your others craps out on you. I have so many extra OM carts now it is not funny, but they are nice to have...
-Peasant Nikon
 
Dj Thy said:
Thanks for the questions you already answered Frank, those answers already solve a lot of discussions.

Now the killer question though :D
We know that the styli are interchangeable, but there are several schools of thought about how it affects the specs of the carts.
Some people say it's the actual cartridge that defines the specs, others say it's the stylus, and then there are some that say it's the combination that makes for the specs. Personally I'm more inclined to the latter two.

Let me give an example. Suppose I get an Ortofon Pro S (concorde or OM, not important). But later I fit a Nightclub stylus on it.
What about the specs of that combo???

Do you still have the Pro S specs, or do you suddenly have a Nightclub with different colors. Or will the specs be completely different?

I know a lot of guys that try to fool Ortofon, by saying, get the cheapest cartridge, and put a high end replacement stylus on it, and voila, you have the best cartridge for a lower price...
Surely this can't be true???
Click to expand...
Oh boy, Dj Thy...I hate to be a myth breaker, but here goes the straight answer

All OM bodies and all Concorde bodies are the same internally. Its a combination of the body and stylus that determine the "specs". All "spherical" stylii are identical w/the exception of the DJ S, DJ E and Scratch, The DJ (blue) has a thicker cantilever, the little round metal tube that holds the diamond tip, so it can take more abuse that the other stylii. The "Scratch" stylus(pink) has a modified suspension that makes it hold the groove " like glue". The elliptical stylii on the DJ E and the NC E are identical.
You can take a Pro S and put a Nightclub stylus on it and you will have a NC. The Pro S and NC stylus are identical except the yellow glows under mild blacklight (as does the whole Scratch (pink) cartridge.)
The cheapest ( we like to say less expensive) combo you describe is actually a smart way to buy if the prices turn out that way.
 
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wow, he actually tells us straight the truth rather than telling us some vague bs to make us think the products are of another planet!!!

frank is being frank with us!

comedy level at 4%
 
verbal said:

When I set it at 0mm, the tonearm doesn't look perfectly parallel to the record. You can't set it any lower than 0mm, so there is no way to get it totally parallel. I have 1200s BTW.
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Dj Thy said:

Yes, I saw that too, but I've heard more often than once that it shouldn't be the tonearm that should be parallel, but the base of the cartridge. This seems plausible to me as that bottom of the plastic is always angled the same way (compared different models and brands).
What about it???
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Originally posted by dynagroove

i'm using an average thickness slipmat and for the tonearm to be parallel to the record i'd have to be using a much thicker one. i also noticed that (at least on my 12's) i can adjust the height almost 1 measurement below 0" (which would be like -1" or the opposite of "these go to 11" ). anyway, that put the tonearm closer to parallel. i also noticed when locking the height adjustment on one of my decks, the tonearm would move up a little, but not on the other deck. the entire tonarm base is loose on the one deck when it's not locked and solid as a rock on the other. any ideas on how to tighten the one back up? thanks - jeff h
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If you're using just the rubber mat and not the "Technics", or other slip mat, this is true. In my test setup our 1200 MKIII can be set to a slight (-) w/jjust the rubber mat and it is very close to parallel.. If you don't want to use an addtional mat of any kind "close" is OK...again not super critical.

If using the headshell, it's the top plate of the cartridge, and thus the tonearm that will be parrallel to the record. The bottom plastic of the stylus may or may not be angled the same way between models/manufacturers. However, the 20 degree tracking angle of the stylus is.
 
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Re: .....

Deft said:
I stand corrected!
But in practical terms, as soon as you apply any tracking force the tonearm skates towards the label of the record (on a smooth piece of vinyl).
And then when you increase the anti-skate it skates back out towards the edge of the record - hence my reasoning that anti-skate adds a force towards the outside of the record?
Also when you look inside a Technics the anti-skate is just a wire which pushes past the tonearm pivot towards the label - hence pulling the tonearm outwards?
Also i'll take a guess that the specs of Ortofon Dj carts are all to do with the magnet in the stylus assembly, not the cart - and i'll wait to be corrected on this!
Cheers
:confused:
Click to expand...

Deft...you got it right on the anti-skating. I've gone back and edited the original posts so as not to confuse anyone. (I must have had a "duhh" moment that day.) Havn't looked inside a 1200 in a while but as I recall the anti skate is applied via a "spring", common to many TT designs. The spring tension adjustment allows for various settings.
Please see my reply to Dj THY re the "specs". Yes, magnets are "slightly" different and partially account f/the differences in output.
 
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funkmasterwikki said:
wow, 5 star thread!
so then mr ortofon inc (:D), do you know if there are any plans to make a cartridge with (i hate to compare!) better tracking than m447's? that would be a feat!
also, pink isnt really my colour :)
Click to expand...
Well, I must admit that I don't have any experience w/ the Shure.
And by "tracking" I assume you mean backcueing/scratching ?
If pink is not your thing, you can put the pink stylus on a black body and it may not be so bad looking. and it will "stick" like crazy.
 
ewwhite said:
see: http://djedwhite.com/articles
and my suggestion is 3.5 to 4.5 millimeters
0mm is ridiculous.
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ewwhite said:
....but my advice isn't wrong.... Grrrr...
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ewhite....all depends on the thickness of the mats used. so 3.5 to 4.5 may work just fine in your set-up and of course 0 will work in another, where just the single rubber Technics mat is used.
 
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verbal said:
I thought I posted this already, but I guess I'm losing my mind.

Anyway, has Ortofon discontinued any of their cartridges/stylii? I was in DJ Supply in metro Detroit and asked them how much Nightclub stylii were. He said that Ortofon has discontinued a lot of their products and that only kept the pro, DJ, and scratch cartridges and stylii. Is this true? I'm close to needing new stylii for my NCs. If so, what stylii are the best to use on my NCs?
Click to expand...
Verbal and Peasant Nikon...No, none of Ortofon's DJ carts have been discontinued and it is highly unlikely they ever will be. Even if one model were to be dropped , the stylus would always continue. Ortofon still makes stylii f/consumer carts that were made 25 yrs ago.

I'm suprised at the the salesman's comments at DJ Supply, which is an authorized Ortofon dealer. He may have been saying that because he wanted to sell what he had in stock (not that the comment is "professional" in it's mis-leading info) Unfortunately, retail stores , and now the internet...especially the internet is loaded w/ mis-information !
 
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