What Can MPC do that Maschine can't?

noborders said:
Hardware are just computers. The point you're missing is that regular computers are no different from "hardware" when you treat it as such. You don't have to update the computer OS or software if you don't want to. You can keep using the computer/software setup that works and never change it. "Hardware" just stop getting supported so there's no option to update anything and often have bugs that never get fixed.
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I did not miss the point, that IS my point, that's why I said you don't need to keep an old legacy computer just so you can continue to use legacy hardware. When hardware and software stop getting supported they are both in the same boat in regard to updates and bugs, the difference is that software will need to be matched to a computer that does not have compatibility issues due to it's own software updates, forcing you to keep a second computer should you need to move forward with any other software you own.

noborders said:
Again, the point you're missing is that MIDI controllers are much easier and cheaper to replace whereas if the MPC2000's screen dies for example, you're screwed because the parts are no longer being made.
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When a product goes legacy that means it's no longer made, like I said the same thing applies to NI's controllers, if a NI B4D breaks that's it you can't get a new one, if they stop producing Maschine then it's no longer produced, if you can no longer get records for Traktor same shit, you're screwed, it's the same legacy curse that looms over the MPC2000 and anything else capable of eventual failure.

noborders said:
Maschine is the most successful product for NI ever. There's no way it will somehow get discontinued. Trying to give examples of software that were discontinued because of lack of enough interest (Gigasampler), were victims of being bought out and killed (Opcode Studio Vision), or replaced by an improved version (B4 which is now Vintage Organs) is just disingenuous and irrelevant.
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I was demonstrating that ground breaking products can die and popular products can die, that there is no immunity from death just because something is perceived to be great....B4 was great, it was popular and if you think Vintage Organs is an improved version you are wrong, Vintage Organs is samples for Kontakt, B4 is an emulation that uses physical modeling, NI pulled the pin for no other reason than to shift the support resources onto newer products.
 
noborders said:
LOL You just proved that you're just a gear collector. Otherwise you would have known about midi import and Maschine's extensive export/drag and drop options for MIDI and audio.
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I see you stopped talking about Groove Templates. lol

Maschine doesn't have "extensive anything." Look back several pages in this thread. I already told you Maschine is inferior in so many ways. While Maschine doesn't "import" or "load" MIDI files, you can still record MIDI files directly into its sequencer along the same lines as sequencers create 20 years ago. Like I said before...thanks. You detailed explanation of what Maschine can and can't do sheds more like on the subject.

So the main question of this thread "What can MPC do that Maschine can't?"
1. MPCs can load and save MIDI files
2. MPCs have more detailed sample editing
3. MPCs have more extensive MIDI capabilities
4. MPCs are generally stable
5. MPCs have timestretch/pitchshifting with and without changing samples tempo
6. MPC 5000/4000/2000 are compatible with more sample formats
7. MPCs have more extensive sample layering capabilities

And more.......can't forget the timing and "swang." lol
 
jahrome said:
I see you stopped talking about Groove Templates. lol

Maschine doesn't have "extensive anything." Look back several pages in this thread. I already told you Maschine is inferior in so many ways. While Maschine doesn't "import" or "load" MIDI files, you can still record MIDI files directly into its sequencer along the same lines as sequencers create 20 years ago. Like I said before...thanks. You detailed explanation of what Maschine can and can't do sheds more like on the subject.

So the main question of this thread "What can MPC do that Maschine can't?"
1. MPCs can load and save MIDI files
2. MPCs have more detailed sample editing
3. MPCs have more extensive MIDI capabilities
4. MPCs are generally stable
5. MPCs have timestretch/pitchshifting with and without changing samples tempo
6. MPC 5000/4000/2000 are compatible with more sample formats
7. MPCs have more extensive sample layering capabilities

And more.......can't forget the timing and "swang." lol
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1. MPCs can load and save MIDI files - yes this true

2. MPCs have more detailed sample editing - NO this is debatable In what way, If anything Maschine has detailed editing features. Everything i could do on my MPC editing wise i can do on the Maschine Pluss more, & faster

3. MPCs have more extensive MIDI capabilities - True as far as Loading midi files and having more ins and outs

4. MPCs are generally stable- Yes but i could say the same about maschine "generaly it is stable"

5. MPCs have timestretch/pitchshifting with and without changing samples tempo - This is true with time stretch but maschine has pitch shift as well. Not to worried tho should be coming in a new update.

6. MPC 5000/4000/2000 are compatible with more sample formats- What formats are MPCs compatible with?

7. MPCs have more extensive sample layering capabilities- Mpcs may have good layering capabilities but so does Maschine. In-fact i can Layer Dozens of sounds on one Pad, and have pitch control, gain, Pan and everything else accessible per sound and per pad. plus its fast n easy

we can argue all day back and forth about the timing and swing
 
How is this going on so long? Who cares. Use what works for you, as what YOU need is different from what others need. Such as timestretch, I don't care about it because I never use it. Arguing about swing, and blah blah is pointless. I mean, while you are on the respective pieces of equipment you will be able to tell differences but by the time that beat becomes a song no one will know or care.

I used to own a Maschine and just ordered an MPC 2000XL today, so I will be able to judge better once it gets here.
 
hollandturbine said:
I did not miss the point, that IS my point, that's why I said you don't need to keep an old legacy computer just so you can continue to use legacy hardware.
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The point you keep missing is that "hardware" like MPC IS a computer. It's just a very proprietary and limited computer. Regular computers are no different from "hardware" when you treat it as such. You don't have to update the computer OS or software if you don't want to. You can keep using the computer/software setup that works and never change it. "Hardware" just stop getting supported so there's no option to update anything and often have bugs that never get fixed.

hollandturbine said:
When a product goes legacy that means it's no longer made, like I said the same thing applies to NI's controllers, if a NI B4D breaks that's it you can't get a new one, if they stop producing Maschine then it's no longer produced, if you can no longer get records for Traktor same shit, you're screwed, it's the same legacy curse that looms over the MPC2000 and anything else capable of eventual failure.
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Again, you're missing the point that MPC is a dying platform. You can no longer get certain parts for older MPCs when they break. Maschine is just getting started and has a bright future.

hollandturbine said:
B4 was great, it was popular and if you think Vintage Organs is an improved version you are wrong, Vintage Organs is samples for Kontakt, B4 is an emulation that uses physical modeling, NI pulled the pin for no other reason than to shift the support resources onto newer products.
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Haha. I don't know where you read that but you don't know what you're talking about. Vintage Organs is the official successor to B4. And B4 is also sample-based. Vintage Organs is so much deeper than B4 and has advanced Kontakt scripting. They're not even in the same league. And just because B4 is no longer sold doesn't mean it no longer works. And comparing something like B4/Vintage Organs to NI's main flagship product like Maschine is just silly.
 
noborders said:
The point you keep missing is that "hardware" like MPC IS a computer. It's just a very proprietary and limited computer. Regular computers are no different from "hardware" when you treat it as such. You don't have to update the computer OS or software if you don't want to. You can keep using the computer/software setup that works and never change it. "Hardware" just stop getting supported so there's no option to update anything and often have bugs that never get fixed.
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This is true I still have an G4 Running DP3 smooth as butter for me


noborders said:
Again, you're missing the point that MPC is a dying platform. You can no longer get certain parts for older MPCs when they break. Maschine is just getting started and has a bright future.
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Actually you can always get the parts made somewhere else... A lot of these suppliers don't get their stock from akai
 
Maschine depreciates rapidly with everyday you own it.
1. MPCs can load and save MIDI files - yes this true

2. MPCs have more detailed sample editing - NO this is debatable In what way, If anything Maschine has detailed editing features. Everything i could do on my MPC editing wise i can do on the Maschine Pluss more, & faster

3. MPCs have more extensive MIDI capabilities - True as far as Loading midi files and having more ins and outs

4. MPCs are generally stable- Yes but i could say the same about maschine "generaly it is stable"

5. MPCs have timestretch/pitchshifting with and without changing samples tempo - This is true with time stretch but maschine has pitch shift as well. Not to worried tho should be coming in a new update.

6. MPC 5000/4000/2000 are compatible with more sample formats- What formats are MPCs compatible with?

7. MPCs have more extensive sample layering capabilities- Mpcs may have good layering capabilities but so does Maschine. In-fact i can Layer Dozens of sounds on one Pad, and have pitch control, gain, Pan and everything else accessible per sound and per pad. plus its fast n easy

we can argue all day back and forth about the timing and swing
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1. Every modern MIDI sequencer can do this except Maschine
2. MPCs can freely divide a sample into numerous regions of your choosing. While Maschine is fixed: 2, 4, 8, 16, 32.
3. Every MPC MIDI function is "implemented better" than Maschine from Grid Editor, Step Sequencer, Pulling up patches from connected sound modules using program/bank changes, Pad/Track mute automation, etc
4. MPCs are self-contained units with guaranteed performance. Maschine isn't. Maschine can/does crash or hang. This is the nature of both Windows and OSX platforms.
5. Don't care about updates that are not there. Maschine doesn't have time stretch. I don't recall Maschine having pitch shift that doesn't change the tempo of the audio file.
6. Depending on which MPC you choose, support for Akai, Roland, and Emu sample libraries
7. MPCs have better sample layering possibilities. This was true before and after Maschines OS update which gave it "pad link" feature that has been available in MPCs for decades. Its impossible to program a pad faster than an MPC. You may be able to do it "as fast" but not faster.

You can go back and forth about swing but the fact of the matter, MPCs sequencers can't be duplicated. Many have tried and failed. This is the reason why they are still in use today. In 3-5 years, I suspect NI won't be making Maschine anymore.
 
As someone that used to own a Maschine and switched to an MPC2000XL, I prefer the MPC. My main issue with Maschine is that unless it's plugged into a computer, it's useless. I don't have a laptop, I have a desktop. This makes working w/ Maschine anywhere outside of my home impossible. If I go on a vacation, or to a friend's house, or to the studio, I like the idea of being able to take along my MPC and just plugging it into the wall.

I also didn't like that timestretch isn't an option. I see it's still not available, even though seemingly everyone that defended Maschine was confident that timestretch was going to be included in the 'next' update. I also think that the MPC is much more intuitive.
 
noborders said:
The point you keep missing is that "hardware" like MPC IS a computer. It's just a very proprietary and limited computer. Regular computers are no different from "hardware" when you treat it as such. You don't have to update the computer OS or software if you don't want to. You can keep using the computer/software setup that works and never change it. "Hardware" just stop getting supported so there's no option to update anything and often have bugs that never get fixed.
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Again? you are saying that I am unaware of points that I have already raised, we already agree that an MPC is a computer and that you can maintain a legacy computer to run legacy software, the difference of opinion seems to be that you are viewing the computer needed to run Maschine as though it is part of the product itself, while I do not. Because a legacy MPC IS a computer (unlike Maschine) connecting an MPC to an up to date computer looks like this, MPC + computer, while connecting legacy Mascine to an up to date computer would look like this, Maschine + computer + computer.

noborders said:
Again, you're missing the point that MPC is a dying platform. You can no longer get certain parts for older MPCs when they break. Maschine is just getting started and has a bright future.
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I am sure Maschine will be around for a while but, like Yoda said "hard to see the future is", you never know whats around the corner.


noborders said:
Haha. I don't know where you read that but you don't know what you're talking about. Vintage Organs is the official successor to B4. And B4 is also sample-based. Vintage Organs is so much deeper than B4 and has advanced Kontakt scripting. They're not even in the same league. And just because B4 is no longer sold doesn't mean it no longer works. And comparing something like B4/Vintage Organs to NI's main flagship product like Maschine is just silly.
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B4 is not sample based, it is a physical modeling emulation, it uses synthesis (not samples) to create the sound, it's not a rompler like NI's Elektrik Piano it's a VA like lounge lizard EP. I never said Vintage Organs is not the official successor to B4 just that your assumption that Vintage Organs is an improved version is wrong. Now the reason I mention B4 is because although something is good at the time it does not grantee it will not end up being tomorrows legacy product, just as you have pointed out the MPC is being handed it's hat and so you should remember that the MPC was also perceived as being so incredibly supper awesome it will be around for ever etc, all I am saying is getting a Maschine tattoo might not be a good idea.
 
I liked the sound of B4 better, at least from the demos and people on youtube.
 
noborders said:
Then that's all you had to say instead of typing all that. Your pessimistic view about the future of Maschine has no bearing on whether someone should get a tattoo of maschine or not.
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My intention was to demonstrate how time affects hardware and computer products differently by using the worst case scenario, that does not mean I actually think Maschine will become discontinued.

noborders said:
You're wrong about B4. B4 does use samples:
NI User Forums - View Single Post - A B4 users view of Vintage Organs
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Just like a real Hammond organ, B4 also uses additive synthesis and because a sine wave sample is still a sample you are quite right in saying that it uses samples, that's not quite what I was talking about though.
 
noborders said:
Ahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Anyone judging a sound of anything from a YouTube video deserves a FACEPALM.
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You always have something negative to say. I really suggest you grow up and act mature. Just because I like the sound of B4 doesn't mean that the product videos or demos on the website don't adequately illustrate the products.

Really, I think YOU should get a Facepalm because Native Instruments has OFFICIAL product videos on Youtube so they obviously thought they were good enough to demonstrate some features.
 
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****ing maschine doesn't have a fixed velocity button.. ****! or at least i haven't found it yet..... and all that other jazz. so just buy both!
 
I have maschine at the moment and its the only beat making tool ive owned, but i recently tried an mpc 2000xl and it just felt better to me so im going to save for one, but anyways i think maschine is fantastic but I just don't think its right fit for me but is probably is for others.
 
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