Super Secret MIXING/MASTERING Info!

Question

Whats going on everyone..
Everet James here with MurdaKill Productions.

I wanted to know if anyone could tell me if I have this right.

Formally I have been seeling beats to local artists who typically use the beat in a stereo or two track L/R format, but recently someone asked me for the entire session..( I use Sonar 6), so I wrote all the 37 sounds to individual tracks..Bass - Clap - Drums - Piano - Snare, etc, yet when I opened the tracks at their studio (Nuendo) I had to realign all the sounds and readjust all the levels because they were all...

Bass
Clap
Drums
Piano
Snare

When they should be

Bass
................Clap
.........Drums
......Snare

You know what I mean?

and also how does recording the vocals into the instrumental with all the sounds spread out give you a better final product then when all the tracks are bounced to one?

Kind of confused here..anyone can help I would reallly appreciate it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You need to bounce the seperate tracks for start. So all the files will be same size and length. Not just bounce the 'as is' audio.

In Cubase, you'd have the same markers for every track for the mixdown.
 
pj1s said:
You need to bounce the seperate tracks for start. So all the files will be same size and length. Not just bounce the 'as is' audio.

In Cubase, you'd have the same markers for every track for the mixdown.

Cool...
So what happens if I burn all the individual sound to individual tracks on a cd, I end up with 27 different tracks, how is the person buying the beat going to get all the tracks aligned again?
 
MK PRODUCTIONS said:
Cool...
So what happens if I burn all the individual sound to individual tracks on a cd, I end up with 27 different tracks, how is the person buying the beat going to get all the tracks aligned again?


start a thread with your question... this is not supposed to be a thread for every random question.

If you want answers to your question, you will be better off making a thread.

People do not check this thread to see if someone happened to ask something.


(if you read the very first post in this thread, you will understand the point of it.)

:)
 
dvyce said:
start a thread with your question... this is not supposed to be a thread for every random question.

If you want answers to your question, you will be better off making a thread.

People do not check this thread to see if someone happened to ask something.


(if you read the very first post in this thread, you will understand the point of it.)

:)


Thanks for the advice...
I posted this question here because I believed it related to the Mixing mastering process, for often when a beat/instrumental is sold to an, artist or label it will be requested per track so it can be mixed correctly with the vocals.
I did however figure it out...OMF (Open Media Files)
Open media files can be imported, exported and saved in every common DAW..Nuendo, Pro Tools, Cubase, Digital Performer and Sonar.
I knew I would figure it out eventually, but I though I would ask first..
BTW you can preview the final track at:
myspace.com/murdakillproductions
It is a vocal remix titled High Caliber created at the request of
Jadakiss with D-Block.

Thanks again..and I will remember that new thread thing next time
I have a new question.
 
dvyce said:
The general population here does not even know what mastering is

Mastering is what happens after you think the track is done.


"Mixing is when you think you are "finishing" the record" - Jack Endino.


The general population here may not have the faintest idea what mastering is, but they will sure as hell know when it's not done correctly. Local producers hand me CD's that are allegedly mastered yet are a sonic train wreck.
 
And a lot of people who don't understand the process equate "mastering" with "making it really loud" -- And although that would be the phase where "loud" might happen, it's certainly not the main concern.
 
The HT said:
dvyce said:
The general population here does not even know what mastering is

Mastering is what happens after you think the track is done.


"Mixing is when you think you are "finishing" the record" - Jack Endino.


The general population here may not have the faintest idea what mastering is, but they will sure as hell know when it's not done correctly. Local producers hand me CD's that are allegedly mastered yet are a sonic train wreck.


I do not know offhand where I said that or what context it was said in (not that it matters) but...

...To say "mastering is what happens after you think the track is done" explaining absolutely nothing about what "mastering" is. In fact, your quote pretty much describes what the general population here knows about mastering...

...and it does not say anything about mastering... it says as much about mastering as if you described "mixing" as "it is what you do to the track."
 
i feel like an idiot asking this but let me get this straight:

mixing: assembling the track together, which could include songwriting.

mastering: audio levels, basically editing process....

songwriting: i know its more than actually penning lyrics...right?


and in terms of editing, what exactly are the tracks? I think i guy mentioed it above, are the tracks the actual songs in this case or elements within the song recorded onto the whole project (song)?

dont laugh now, just tryin to get my facts right.
 
Last edited:
Mixing

MK PRODUCTIONS said:
Cool...
So what happens if I burn all the individual sound to individual tracks on a cd, I end up with 27 different tracks, how is the person buying the beat going to get all the tracks aligned again?

MK usually if I want a producer to separate the tracks, I want them in a data format via wave or aiff files since I have Mac and Pc for Protools, this way I can import them into Protools on individual tracks and start mixing them to my taste>
 
NinoBrown said:
i feel like an idiot asking this but let me get this straight:

mixing: assembling the track together, which could include songwriting.

mastering: audio levels, basically editing process....

songwriting: i know its more than actually penning lyrics...right?
Songrwriting / Arranging / etc. -- The writing of the music and/or lyrics of a song. Arranging instrumentation, etc.

Recording / tracking -- Pretty self-explanatory. The recording of the sounds that will make up the mix.

Mixing -- Creating a cohesive mix from the individual elements of the recorded song.

Mastering -- Creating a cohesive production/replication master from a collection of individual mixes.
 
dvyce said:
I do not know offhand where I said that or what context it was said in (not that it matters) but...

...To say "mastering is what happens after you think the track is done" explaining absolutely nothing about what "mastering" is. In fact, your quote pretty much describes what the general population here knows about mastering...

...and it does not say anything about mastering... it says as much about mastering as if you described "mixing" as "it is what you do to the track."

I had assumed that mastering was adequately explained already in this thread and was only posting a humorous comment by the man behind some of Nirvana's music. If you're looking for my point of view or an explanation of mastering/mixing, here goes.

Creating a Hip Hop CD for mainstream distribution. The very, very, very, very abbreviated version.


(many tracks will evolve in different ways, this is just a quick look at a somewhat typical process)

You (producer) or your artist (rapper/lyricist/etc) get an amazing idea for a song. Enter step 1.

WRITING

The basic structure of the beat is written and a scratch loop or a scratch track is recorded. When you hear producers talking about writing beats in 10 minutes, this is the stage they're at. Step 1. Not so impressive. The artist writes rhymes and all is good.

RECORDING

Let the magic begin! Lyrics, meet beats. Scratch vocals or finals are laid over the beats and it becomes apparent weather this track is meant for top spots on Billboard or the ****can. Provided the former is true...

ARRANGEMENT

Cuts, effects, break downs, builds, and all sorts of other fun stuff goes on. This is where the beat starts to sound like a song. If you're doing this step in 10 minutes, you're likely rushing. Unless it's a 15 second song. Choruses are blocked out and any extra melodies/bass riffs are added at this stage.

COMPS/RETAKES

Ahh finally, we go from something that sounds like it was done on a laptop to a real deal song. Likely the artist will come back in and fix a few things, perhaps retake a verse or two, maybe decide to double up a chorus, etc. This is just about the last chance to fix anything wrong with the artist's material. Get a lot of takes. You should be telling the artist at this point, "Awesome! Sounds perfect! Let's do another..." Remember, you can always delete extra takes. It's a real pain to fly/bus/hitchhike someone back in to town to get that word in the third verse replaced that you should have recorded four times already.

MIXING

Finally! We're mixing something! I'm excited. This is where a giant ****ing mess of audio becomes pure mother****ing fire. There is no 'right' way to do this, however, for the sake of this thread, I'll go with the way I work. First and foremost, the drums. Is that kick badass enough? Does the HH make my ears want to bleed? Little things to worry about, for instance, with the kick drum, is there enough high end in it so that when Joe Blow Average Listener Extraordinaire plays it through his mom's $2 clock radio he'll still be able to hear it? Is the compression used enough to keep the drums together without terrible artifacts like pumping, etc? Once the drums are solid, I like to work on the bass. It becomes easy to get bass levels once you've got the drums running. (remember to be leaving a little bit of headroom here for vocals. If your master bus is firmly pegged out at -0.1 without the slightest hint of movement, it's a good time to start tuning crap down.) Vocals. This could, and should be a whole thread of it's own. Suffice to say, this is where they get in the mix and you make them sound like they should. After all is said and done, your levels are on point, everything sounds brilliant, the song is perfect... It's done, right? No. Not yet.

MASTERING

The black arts! Like some crazy occult type ****. First of all, where the hell is this song going to be played? Are we pressing vinyl for clubs or is it going to ClearChannel Corp. headquarters for some world wide domination sorta deal? Are we aiming at kids with so many speakers packed in to their trunks they could likely run PA for 50 or is this going to be 'on hold' telephone system music for the IRS? This is partly what mastering is about. Has a friend ever given you a mix CD where some songs are noticeably louder than others? That CD wasn't mastered. Obviously. Also, that goes to show you that perhaps the artists on that disc may have had different applications in mind when their songs were mastered. In most cases (hip hop meant for radio/mtv play), the goal is to get the sound as loud as ****ing possible without it sounding like you took a playskool compressor and turned all the knobs up to 11. Also, songs on an album are normally not mixed on the same day, or in the same session even. That song you did three weeks ago may have a little more bass than the one you will write tomorrow. (a little). This is the Mastering Engineer's job to sort out. Every song on the album needs to, at least in some ways, 'sound the same'. Imagine putting a new CD in that you just got from Best Buy and having to readjust your 'sub out' in your car for every song. You'd be pissed. If you can put the CD in, adjust your EQ settings, and leave it alone, thank the ME.

Like I said, mastering is what happens when you /think/ the track is done.
 
Here is a beat I tried my best at mixing and mastering. Please help a brother out, everything I know is self taught (badly). I am reading everything I can get my hands on, but without a mentor or someone who is actually doing it and me looking, I am just taking stabs around the dark, know what I mean?
 
ive been waiting for someone to say that. whenever i listen to music, i listen for mixing techniques...sometimes i find that sounds that were panned on some songs are dead center on others. go figure. i guess that what he means. those engineers/producers heard what they wanted to hear in the final mix. you're the artist...paint YOUR picture.
 
What an illmatic last post to catch this thread on. While the original Gods among men that posted prolly aren't even payin attention anymore, for the new join scouring this site, I feel like I just walked outta church.

Now, I am serious about my craft, but my pockets are heavily limited, as am I to my trusty laPtop. For guys like me, this is heaven here, just what I needed to know to go on. I WAS thinking this kinda stuff the whole time, but bein a fella producer that teaches myself everything I know, I always thought there were "standards" that I just didn't know. That bein said, I use FL Studio's integrated mixer for pretty much ALL my stuff. So should I just go home?

I mean when I listen to my gear in play, it sounds like apple pie. I can even tell the ones that DO sound good and separate from the beats that I made before I knew about mixing.

VERY good to know that equipment for the most part is still #2 to TALENT. I taught myself to make my tracks sound like I want them to, and as far as that, I guess now I can call myself a pure homey digital esquire. I do wish I had that hardware sound to play........ I just hope that for the time being, what I'm doing using software isn't just a waste of my years.

But I give the free shots to all you guys, and to Father DVYCE, amen again.
 
I just produce and try to learn more and more everyday.I hired an engineer to mix and master my songs. Mixing and mastering is an art by itself and there should be no short cuts on this procedure. To properly mix and master you should be trained,not self trained but by a seasoned engineer.

Ground Zero
 
Feel ya, feel ya. I'll soon enough be trained in someway at least, in school for the production game, but in the meantime, I'm capable myself, and wanna learn everything I can, tryna corner the game nah mean. Comin along quite nicely, if I may, help o sites like this.

Some sick half-butt world domination plans, the usual.
 
I agree there is a lot to be said for learning about mastering and the tools involved from a seasoned engineer. At the same time part of the key to good mastering is "felt" reather than heard in a way, as you can only consciously analyze frequencies to a point. Those things often seem very seperate.

Funny thing is, I learned part of what to "feel" for from watching a seasoned mastering engineer in a very technical situation. Fortunately, I was able to go back and watch it several times as it was part of a mixing/mastering DVD/video I was working on.

Beyond that, I also learned that I had been very close all along. There were just some things that had seemed very small before that in reality made a huge impact overall.

Given all of the mastering chops possible, I can never stress this one thing too much: If you have any investment in and previous time listening to/mixing the music in question you can forget about mastering it well. NEVER master your own music - if it ends up sounding as good as music you master for others it's likely to be a fluke. The problem is in that you tend to want to emphasize certain things that often shouldn't take center stage, but since you've grown so attached to them and know you are allowed creative input, you now think they should. Another person is more likely to hear your track for what it is and emphasize the strong points making it more listenable.

Try trading mastering on tracks with someone who is interested and at your level, but also knows better.
 
Last edited:
again, like dvyce said in the first post:

"If you are mastering your own material, there should be NO CORRECTIVE MEASURES NEEDED with mastering.

If your hi-hat is too loud, you don't need to try to correct it in mastering... you just lower the hi-hat in your mix!

If your mix doesn't sound right and basically like what it should sound like on the album, then you didn't mix it well."
 
Last edited:
Just to make sure the original intent and purpose of this thread is not forgotten, I am reposting my original post...

But this time, since this information is so "super secret", I am posting it "super-secret-spy-style", so if you really want the "super secret mixing and mastering info" which will put you on your way to being a better mix/master engineer...

...Well... you are going to have to use your "super secret spy skills" to read it:



dvyce said:
I don't even know where to start here...


The truth is, it is not inaccurate to say "do what the mix tells you (i.e. what the mix needs)" in response to a question of how to master.

...and the fact is, the same thing goes for mixing and songwriting (each of which are all very specific craft and art, no less so than mastering.)


Mastering, mixing, and songwriting ALL take a lifetime to learn. That is a fact. Every day that goes by, you will get better and better... and if you actually have a talent for it, you may become great.


It should be a given that you need the highest quality equipment... and that goes for mixing, recording and mastering EQUALLY.

...you shouldn't need someone to tell you that... even though it has been told to you countless times.


in order to master (or mix or record) you will need a complete intimate understanding of various tools such as compressors and EQ's...

...not to mention (with regard to mastering) the guidelines for preparing a finished master ready for manufacture, which is really the ultimate goal of having a record mastered... but I have a feeling that when people ask how to "master" they are really asking "how do I make my track sound as loud as that song from that CD and how do I master it so the mix sounds like a professional CD" (and in that case, there are a lot more steps you need to address before you reach your goals.)


You will need to have the ability to objectively look at a piece of music and hear and understand what needs to be done to it.


(i.e., doing what the music is telling you to do)



You can give instruction on the technicalities of how to use various pieces of equipment and what the various controls do and you can explain what types of sounds have fast attacks (or whatever), but actually using it in the proper place in the proper way is up to the users ability to:

1. hear what the audio needs;

2. decide which tool is the proper one to use; and

3. use it effectively




Some people seem to just be happy having someone tell them what to do whether it is correct and useful information or not.

Someone could tell you some completely useless and false information and people will say "finally! thanks for the help man! good lookin out!"



Please understand this:

There is no "frequency" someone can tell you to boost.

There is no "compressor setting" someone can give you.

There is no "level" someone can tell you to make an instrument in a mix.



--these are all things the audio will "tell" you it needs... and it is up to you to be able to hear what the audio is saying and it is up to you to know how to "answer it when it speaks."



If you are mastering your own material, there should be NO CORRECTIVE MEASURES NEEDED with mastering.

If your hi-hat is too loud, you don't need to try to correct it in mastering... you just lower the hi-hat in your mix!



If your mix doesn't sound right and basically like what it should sound like on the album, then you didn't mix it well.





With regard to both mixing and/or mastering (not everything I am going to mention will apply to both), you can be told things like "don't overcompress, get your levels sounding good, pan your instruments in a balanced way, make sure each instrument has its own space, make the overall album sound consistent, etc"

...but it is up to you to know your tools and how to use them... and it is up to you to know what sounds right.


Every day, I see several people here saying "you should pan this here and use this compresor setting and boost this frequency and roll this off and copy this to another track and use this plugin and this preset and this synth"

...and it is generally bad advice...

...and people say "thanks for the great tips!" because they don't know any better.





If you want to get some help on your mixing, maybe try posting one of your mixes and ask people to critique it. Maybe you can get an objective opinion on whether you need to raise the level of your snare... or if you have too much reverb on your vocal... or if some effect you used sounds cheesy... or if your stereo spread is off... or if the strings sound dull... or you have too much compression on the guitar... or you need to automate the level of the solo section... or whatever


If you want help with your mastering... post something you mastered and have people critique it. Maybe you can get an objective opinion on it. Maybe someone can tell you "it sounds like you have a lot of compression on the track, which is not my taste, but if that is your artistic decision then it is good... but it sounds like you have the release set too long because I can hear the compressor recovering" or whatever.



...and that should do it...

...you are now on your way to becoming a great recording/mixing/mastering engineer!
 
Back
Top