Nas not liking Jay-Z from day one

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dkelloway

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Does anyone know why Nas disliked Jay-Z from day one? Why wouldn't he show up for the Reasonable Doubt recording?

On wikipedia it says that Nas and Large Professor had a run in with Jay-Z and Jaz. Does anyone know anything about this?

thanks
 
ight let me break it down with you.. wit a lil outside info

Nas was madd cool wit Wu-Tang Clan.. Mainly Raekwon and Ghost.. now Ghost, Raekwon and i think THe RZA had a lot of problems wit Biggie Smalls.. mainly because they called him a biter, sayin that Biggie bit off of Nas' album cover nd was jockin a lot of Wu-Tang Slang..

so they all had there problems.. like Nas stated in one song.. "Who u thought Kick In The Door was for".. so Kick in The Door was a song about Nas, and there was another song about Nas.. in which they were makin fun of him and Wu-Tang thru "The Madd Rapper" character..

but anyways back to Jay-Z

basically Jay-Z was putting out Reasonable Doubt about a year or 2 after Illmatic came out.. and he sample Nas' vocals from The World Is Yous..

now at first they wanted Nas on the song as a feature, but being that Biggie was Jay's boy, Nas never showed up to any of the scheduled recording sessions.. he was basically dogging Jay-Z & Jaz, along with Ski (the producer), Clark Kent, & Irv Gotti..

so ever since then.. there was a rift between Nas and Jay-Z's so called "friendship"

then.. B.I.G. died.. and this whole war for whose the best NY rapper came about..

nd Jay-Z was talkin like him, Nas & Big were the best from NY.. nd Nas didnt even consider him compition.. thats how it all escalated..

then they started bringin in past troubles and baby mommas into the situation
 
Also, another part of the rift was that Jay was pissed that while he had eventully sold more records that Nas, many people still considered nas to be lyrically better than him, and onlookers/pundits/critics would always compare the bulk of his catalogue to Nas' debut album Illmatic. This was evident in Jay's lines in "Takeover", where he commented onhis lack of sales and supposed classic album status.
 
first of all, thanks for the insightful response. I have 2 more questions though. Kick in the Door was released after BIG's death, so BIG didn't exactly diss Nas at the time of the RD recording? is this correct?

also, in the song "Takeover", Jay says "I showed you [Nas] your first Tek on tour with Large Professor"

so they probably met somewhere before they both became popular by knowing some of the same people in the rap world at the time. But, I find it silly to believe that Jay would go over to Nas and say "Nas, i love your style, here's my Tek"

what do you think?

jeffery225 said:
Also, another part of the rift was that Jay was pissed that while he had eventully sold more records that Nas, many people still considered nas to be lyrically better than him, and onlookers/pundits/critics would always compare the bulk of his catalogue to Nas' debut album Illmatic. This was evident in Jay's lines in "Takeover", where he commented onhis lack of sales and supposed classic album status.
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in Takeover, wasn't he referring to Mobb Deep when he was talking about record sales, and how he outsold their whole last record in his first week?
 
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yess they acutally were "friends" i guess before they got famous.. mainly through Puffy..

at one point everybody was cool in NY.. Bad Boy, Nas, Roc-A-Fella & Wu-Tang

but different things led to different instances

i forget wat song it was.. in which Nas talks about Puffy showing him aroud town in the new Jeep..

its really complicated..

but they all knew each other, or at least of each other..
 
dkelloway said:
first of all, thanks for the insightful response. I have 2 more questions though. Kick in the Door was released after BIG's death, so BIG didn't exactly diss Nas at the time of the RD recording? is this correct?

also, in the song "Takeover", Jay says "I showed you [Nas] your first Tek on tour with Large Professor"

so they probably met somewhere before they both became popular by knowing some of the same people in the rap world at the time. But, I find it silly to believe that Jay would go over to Nas and say "Nas, i love your style, here's my Tek"

what do you think?



in Takeover, wasn't he referring to Mobb Deep when he was talking about record sales, and how he outsold their whole last record in his first week?
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Actually, the song was recorded by Big almost seven months before he dies, one of the last ones that needed to be finished, they talked about that in the XXl magazine where they did a Life after Death tribute. And I as far I can rember, they were "cool" at one point becasue of their affilation with Foxy brown. But when she went to join the Firm, instead of the rumored joining of the Commision, that further casued some problems. Moreover, they both ran on the same circles with Nas's comrade Ill Will, and of course MC Serch, who managed Nas early in his career.
 
yes it was last real nigga alive..

i think in a issue of XXL magazine where they talk about reasonable doubt.. they mention the whole beef sitation and they talk about it from Irv Gotti, Ski, & Clark Kents point of view

yea the Commission was supposed to be like some supergroup.. but Big died, Sauce Money was chillin, Foxy Brown was part of the Firm..

nd then once again.. they started bringin personal facts from the past.. nd things kind of went out of hand

Cam'ron talkin bout Nas' mom.. and she had just died not to long ago or something along those lines, Memphis Bleek attacking Nas.. it was just a Roc-A-Fella bash on Nas and really.. who could back Nas up.. because all the other Queensbridge rappers didnt wanna ruin there careers like that.. they wanted to create opprotunitys..

Cormega, Littles, Lake The Kid.. people like that.. who are cool wit Nas.. were still somewat underground.. so how are you gonna attack the most powerful label at that time (2003)
 
well if Jay was on good terms with Nas' close friend Ill Will, and MC Serch, wouldn't you think Nas would have went to the studio to drop a verse for RD. I heard that Nas was supposed to drop a verse for "Can I Live" Wow, I bet that track would be even more ill with Nas on it. I also heard somewhere that Carmen Bryan reported that Jay-Z would often call Nas and leave messages like "Primo is in the studio, we should totally get together and make a hot track" This is weirder since they both liked Primo

have you heard anything about this?
 
dkelloway said:
also, in the song "Takeover", Jay says "I showed you [Nas] your first Tek on tour with Large Professor"

so they probably met somewhere before they both became popular by knowing some of the same people in the rap world at the time. But, I find it silly to believe that Jay would go over to Nas and say "Nas, i love your style, here's my Tek"

what do you think?



in Takeover, wasn't he referring to Mobb Deep when he was talking about record sales, and how he outsold their whole last record in his first week?
Click to expand...


You have to conisider that even though they were pursuing rap careers these were still street dudes. And from personal experience, it's natural that when street guys get together and there's an element of respect and coolness, it aint exactly taboo to be talking about guns and drugs, etc. You also have to remember alot of dudes in the hood would always praise Nas for his storytelling ability, but they'd disconnect when it caeme to the actual subject of authencity in HIM being "that dude" he would be talking about, dealing heavy drugs and busting guns.....so the line went

"I showed you your first Tech on tour with Large Professor....but then i hear ya album 'bout ya tech is on ya dresser"

basically saying..."that gun you claimed to have in that gun...was the one *I* showed you"

like the other line "you aint live it you witnessed it from ya folks pad, you scribbled it in ya notepad and created ya life"

People fail to realize just how subtle Jay can create punchlines....because that wasn't even a major line in the song, but if you think about it, one of Nas' most well known joints was "Project Window" so "you witnessed it from ya folks' pad" is actually a pretty good jab.


And in Takeover he did say "i sold what your whole album sold in my first week," but he was a lot more thorough when geared towards Nas, if you listen to the song again....."ok two, two of them ****s was doo, one was nah....the other was illmatic, that's a one hot album every 10 year average" ...etc



:monkey:
 
dkelloway said:
well if Jay was on good terms with Nas' close friend Ill Will, and MC Serch, wouldn't you think Nas would have went to the studio to drop a verse for RD. I heard that Nas was supposed to drop a verse for "Can I Live" Wow, I bet that track would be even more ill with Nas on it. I also heard somewhere that Carmen Bryan reported that Jay-Z would often call Nas and leave messages like "Primo is in the studio, we should totally get together and make a hot track" This is weirder since they both liked Primo

have you heard anything about this?
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yeaa actually that is true.. because Jay-Z (ANDDD Allen Iverson) were in relations wit Carmen Bryan.. and Jay-Z actually ahd a lot of respect for Nas.. despite troubles wit biggie.. but u kno Nas kept on pushin stuff back, making excuses, not showing up.. he was supposed to be on Can I Live & Dead Presidents II, but he just never showed up.. which is actually really disrespectful..

i mean if i was Jay-Z and im coming out with my debut album, and i had Nas on my track i would be extremely excited.. and then Nas just doesnt even have the balls to say "i dont like you, i dont wanna do a track wit you" or at least call up and say "im not interested really, maybe some other time".. but he just never made any moves..

idk really why Nas would do that, somethin u gotta ask him in person lol..
 
so when he said "*I* showed you" when talking about the Tek, he just means that he was rapping about the Tek that some other drug dealer had(which could have easily been Jay-Z)
 
dkelloway said:
so when he said "*I* showed you" when talking about the Tek, he just means that he was rapping about the Tek that some other drug dealer had(which could have easily been Jay-Z)
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Pretty much was most likely Jay. Remember Jay never focused too hard on the tough guy gun ****, outside of protecting his own scrawny neck in the streets, and he always had the backing of the streets as far as the authencity of what he was saying, which is why he's looked up to the way he is.

Nas on the other hand, always had people loving his style, but on the other end they'd say "yea but he wasn't on no street **** like THAT"
 
as20gp said:
yeaa actually that is true.. because Jay-Z (ANDDD Allen Iverson) were in relations wit Carmen Bryan.. and Jay-Z actually ahd a lot of respect for Nas.. despite troubles wit biggie.. but u kno Nas kept on pushin stuff back, making excuses, not showing up.. he was supposed to be on Can I Live & Dead Presidents II, but he just never showed up.. which is actually really disrespectful..

i mean if i was Jay-Z and im coming out with my debut album, and i had Nas on my track i would be extremely excited.. and then Nas just doesnt even have the balls to say "i dont like you, i dont wanna do a track wit you" or at least call up and say "im not interested really, maybe some other time".. but he just never made any moves..

idk really why Nas would do that, somethin u gotta ask him in person lol..
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yeah I don't understand that either, I don't know why he felt bitter toward Jay-Z at that point in time, despite his affiliations to Biggie. It wasn't like Carmen was sleeping with him then, because Carmen said she slept with Jay after he became popular to make Nas jealous. At the time, I remember Carmen saying that Nas never knew what to think of Jay-Z because he never knew him as a street "kingpin" and didn't know what he thought of him just entering the rap game thinking he was really something. But, that still doesn't make it right. I just don't know why Nas didn't show up ONCE. That's all he had to do. Then, maybe, just maybe, when he needed a hot guest appearance, he could have asked Jay to be on his albums to make them hotter.
 
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dkelloway said:
At the time, I remember Carmen saying that Nas never knew what to think of Jay-Z because he never knew him as a street "kingpin" and didn't know what he thought of him just entering the rap game thinking he was really something.
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Which is odd because when they did his life story, and even in the street DVDs, everyone says that as long as they knew Jay, he ALWAYS had money, as early as his late teens.....which is EXACTLY in the time period where young dudes were making obscene amounts of money in the crack game.


Go figure.
 
yea HeIsTruth is right, Jay has always had a large amount of money.. since forever.. if u listen to Blueprint (Momma Loves Me).. and u listen to how his sisters boyfriends or wateva helped him get into the crack and drug game, had him hustlin since a long while ago..

nd yea if Nas had made that one guest appearence things would probably be a lot different..
 
I think if Nas/Jay do a collab, I think they have to make a "Can I Live III" with the same beat, and they drop verses, and it would be nice to see a song where they both describe the beef from their points of view, and it would be great if Nas told people why he was being weird, and why he wouldn't just show up for a recording session.

Do you think ANYONE on these forums (maybe Nas is here?) knows why Nas didn't show up to the RD recording session? I really want to know, and I don't think I will be complete until I find out why.
 
dkelloway said:
I think if Nas/Jay do a collab, I think they have to make a "Can I Live III" with the same beat, and they drop verses, and it would be nice to see a song where they both describe the beef from their points of view, and it would be great if Nas told people why he was being weird, and why he wouldn't just show up for a recording session.
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You heard Black Republicans right?

Do you think ANYONE on these forums (maybe Nas is here?) knows why Nas didn't show up to the RD recording session? I really want to know, and I don't think I will be complete until I find out why.
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Does it really matter? Plus I'm sure someone has already said Nas was more cool with Wu back then and didn't think Jay was all that... that pretty much explains it.
Although I heard somewhere that in a Ghost interview he once said The Wu were never that cool with Nas or Mobb Deep they just collabed with them back then cos they could.
 
yea i heard some stuff like that as well. but thats not true

because u gotta look at it like this.. Wu-tang is a collective gang.. yea thats right i said it GANG.. them staten island wu-tang affiliates are no joke..

so they never had any features on any wu-tang joint thats not an affiliate.. and ur gonna let Nas do a verse on Verbal Intercourse... i think there more the just associates..

they probably distanced themselves from Nas.. because Nas seems like one of those guys that doesnt wanna hurt anybodys feelings after the fact.. hes the guy that goes out drinkin all night and startin all types of probelems... then he takes it back the next day..
 
TheVariousArtist said:
You heard Black Republicans right?


Does it really matter? Plus I'm sure someone has already said Nas was more cool with Wu back then and didn't think Jay was all that... that pretty much explains it.
Although I heard somewhere that in a Ghost interview he once said The Wu were never that cool with Nas or Mobb Deep they just collabed with them back then cos they could.
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Yeah, i've heard black republicans. It's just that Jay isn't what he used to be and Nas isn't what he used to be. But both of them in their primes, then we've got something.

Didn't Nas make a good guest appearance on Raekwon's OB4CL? And then he wouldn't make an appearance on Reasonable Doubt? Obviously he didn't think Jay was that hot. Funny thing is that OB4CL is rated above RD by various sources
 
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