Jay-Z is "a joke" - Sage Francis a truly great rapper?

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Xabiton said:
...You can't argue with his classic albums Reasonable Doubt, Hardknock Life, The Blueprint (imo the best hip hop album ever), The Black Album. I have a hard time finding better Rap albums than any of these
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Well said, X. Not everybody may agree with the "best alive", but I think you're right that it's "hard to argue" with that sh1t, that it's truly creative.

PG
 
Project Girl said:
You have a point. And yet, if millions of people like something, it does make sense to at least shrug and let them, and stop insisting that it's terrible. I think.

This wasn't supposed to be a backpackers vs. whatever argument. I actually REALLY like artists in both of those "categories" and the categories in between. I imagine a lot of other people here do too. Some, maybe not, but that's ok too.

That's the point. There's all kinds of music. I believe we should all let other people be fans of whatever they want, even if we think it's total crap. Maybe there's a time to say honestly that you think it's crap, and WHY. But a lot of the time, I think it's best to just let people have their music and be cool about it. That's why I was pissed at this person, because he wasn't giving me any space at all to just like what I like.

I can see getting mad at Clear Channel or whatever (good for Sage Francis for showing attitude about that, by the way) because they feed the public an ever-changing series of manufactured pop songs performed by one or two of the latest "artists", chosen for the way they look on video.

But I can't see getting hostile to fans for liking what they like.

I hear a lot of what I think of as garbagey music among the mainstream pop. But once in a while there'll be a song that I just love and have a lot of fun with. You never know when a new Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder or Bob Marley is going to arise and become mainstream because they're just so damn good that EVERYBODY likes their music.

Peace,

PG
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as musicians its wild to se how many people dont just like music in general. instead they only listen to one thing or another. There was a thread on here yesterday where cats were trippin about black people enjoying rock music. I simply dont get why musicians dont just enjoy music. I enjoy Dem Franchise Boyz, Little Brother, Murs and Jay Z. Its Goin Down and Hip Hop Horay are the same thing to me. I loved the Whisper Song when it first dropped but my favorite song right now is Before He Cheats by Carrie Underwood. People need to listen to and enjoy music more and stop trying to label it.
 
PlanetHitzProduction said:
LOL! Nahh....haha get my *Deranged* on.
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id really love to see what he has to say off of fp but i dont any of his screen names im unpopular :(

Mainboi23SX said:
yahoo is nice but AIM got the better messenger IMO
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i prefer aim but dude only has Yahoo and is brilliant so i gotta pick his brain sometimes. i have like 5 people on my yahoo list 3 on my msn list and like 40 on my aim lol
 
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this guys probably tryin to peer pressure u into listening to sage francis. alot of these backpackers just listen to music to be cool, cuz most of them really don't have much self esteem. that's way [most] of them try to make themselves feel better.

i bet u if he got disconnected by his bakcpacking freinds/internet-community, his Sage Francis cd's (if he ever bought them in the first place) would go deeper into his stack of cd's. then he'll listen to it a couple months/years later and he'll be like, "i used to like this...?"

even tho Sage Francis isn't all that bad, he is overrated as hell in the nerd corner.
 
Jersey8five6 said:
alot of these backpackers just listen to music to be cool, cuz most of them really don't have much self esteem. that's way [most] of them try to make themselves feel better.
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that is probably the funniest that i have ever read on FP...lol
 
lol... but 4 real man, do u agree?

i'm not sayin all of them, cuz i've met some that are mad cool. they actually don't talk **** about the mainstream for the sake of it being the mainstream, and it's amazing. they just listen to their Company Flow and keep it movin
 
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I got it from here Girl damn...

Listen, Ive been listen to Jay Z since I was in the 8th grade and thats a loooong time ago. Listen, we all know its impossible change someones opinion about music especially a hater and I havent heard Sage Francis but I beat you any amount of money that if Jay were to try to sigh him hed do it. But this guy YOUR argueing with soundz stuuu.....dio challenged. Jay and Milli Vanilli be foreal homie. Jay Z is and will always be looked at as 1 of the greatest MCs EVER! Point blank. So this guy is full of sh...oalin and you shouldnt even be talking to him for god sakes you a Future Producer:cool: Remember what HOV said. "a wise man told me dont argue with fools/ cuz ppl from a distance cant tell whos who."
 
A.MACSON said:
Remember what HOV said. "a wise man told me dont argue with fools/ cuz ppl from a distance cant tell whos who."
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Nice!! :-)

PG
 
I happen to be a Sage Francis fan, he is possibly one of my favorites of all time. I also happen to have a distaste for Jay-Z's music, however i feel that this guy is, for lack of a better work, ignorant. Just because it is "mainstream" doesn't mean it sucks and just because it's "underground" doesn't make it good. By the way Sage is signed to epitaph records, a punk label from the way back, and hardly underground at all. Tell him to go to his local corporate music store and look around in the S's. he'll find our buddy Sage has two albums in that section. Secondly, Jay-Z has skill, how the hell else did he make it big, i mean he did it before every "Crunkster" on the block got a record deal. Just because he raps about bling and ****, i mean speak on what you got, not what you ain't. He keeps it real, he just isn't my style. So i got your back while you keep it real, stick with what you love and **** everyone else.
 
A.MACSON said:
I beat you any amount of money that if Jay were to try to sigh him hed do it. "
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exactly! i was gonna say that earlier

but u have to remember that they say shyt like that to appeal to their fans, u can't be a voice for your culture if u don't stick to the rules

but when it call comes down to it...its about the money...eff the culture

for example...Murs just got picked up for an by a major for his next project Murs for President...and even tho backpackers love him...he still is it it for the money and for the fame. I know this b/c the people who work with him told me

even with little brother..they were doing their thing indie..but they signed with a major

even the nerdiest, stereotypical backpacker would change with a chack on the table..so don't fool yourselves..lol
 
PBoyProducer said:
for example...Murs just got picked up for an by a major for his next project Murs for President...and even tho backpackers love him...he still is it it for the money and for the fame. I know this b/c the people who work with him told me
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[sarcasm]....what a disgrace...[/sarcasm]
 
PBoyProducer said:
exactly! i was gonna say that earlier

but u have to remember that they say shyt like that to appeal to their fans, u can't be a voice for your culture if u don't stick to the rules

but when it call comes down to it...its about the money...eff the culture

for example...Murs just got picked up for an by a major for his next project Murs for President...and even tho backpackers love him...he still is it it for the money and for the fame. I know this b/c the people who work with him told me

even with little brother..they were doing their thing indie..but they signed with a major

even the nerdiest, stereotypical backpacker would change with a chack on the table..so don't fool yourselves..lol
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LOL@ when the backpackers say Murs sold out or your hear it on FP. or dismiss him because he is signed to the major label, they all do it.

Xabiton said:
id really love to see what he has to say off of fp but i dont any of his screen names im unpopular :(


i prefer aim but dude only has Yahoo and is brilliant so i gotta pick his brain sometimes. i have like 5 people on my yahoo list 3 on my msn list and like 40 on my aim lol
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Gotcha, yeah I got random people on my AIM. Am always on that. There is only a hand few I can talk to music about and make sense.
 
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This is a BUSINESS above all.

There comes a time when you have to make a LIVING, got kids to feed, wife...or um....*babymamaS* yea with an S....PIMPIN SON!

Oh sorry, but yea this is a business, and I personally don't think it's right for a *conscious* artist to get beat down cause he signed with a major, because he is in the music business also!

That's a different story from if Common went from working with Kanye West to cutting a south track with Lil Jon dancing around wearing a rented Crunk Aint Dead piece...

That's different.

But we don't know the full extent of the contracts that these *conscious/backpacker artists* or (traders to some purists)...signed.
 
Project Girl said:
I am in an ongoing debate with somebody over music and I'd be interested in intelligent, thoughtful feedback on it.

When I told this person that I like a lot of Jay-Z's music (not saying he's "the best" or anything like that - I just think he makes some good music and I like it), this person began proclaiming that (in his words) Jay-Z is nothing but "a joke" and that his work is without any merit whatsoever, literally "garbage".

Now, if this was just an opinion, I'd be FINE with it. Everybody likes different music. It's personal and subjective. But this person insists that anyone who does enjoy's Jay-Z's music is completely lacking in musical taste. In other words, nobody else should like his music either, and if they do, they have no taste.

He says that "in 10 years, Jay-Z will be considered in the same category with Milli Vanilli".

(Please note, this is entirely about *music* itself, not about the character or personality of the musician.)

On the other hand, this person holds up this guy Sage Francis as an example of truly great rap music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sage_Francis

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Sage Francis apparently talks sh1t about Jay-Z regularly. Not that he would be likely to have the opportunity, but even if he did, he declines to battle any other MCs at all.

This person quotes "lots of people" who feel agree with him, and continues to insist that anyone who even respects Jay-Z's music just doesn't know what they're talking about.

Like I said, just interested in people's take on this, and please, let's be intelligent and civil about it. :-)

PG
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who is sage fagget ?....JAY-Z HAS MADE MILLIONS FROM HIS MUSIC........he is probably trying to use this a a publicity stunt which i am sure jay is onto, somebody tell this faggot that he can end his career before it even begins..........
 
PlanetHitzProduction said:
That's a different story from if Common went from working with Kanye West to cutting a south track with Lil Jon dancing around wearing a rented Crunk Aint Dead piece...

That's different.

But we don't know the full extent of the contracts that these *conscious/backpacker artists* or (traders to some purists)...signed.
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I've heard crazy stuff before that ol' heads who were on common the first day dismiss Common because he works with Kanye, lol.
 
look what he has to say about Common: from http://www.hiphopmusic.com/archives/000948.html

April 13, 2005

Sage Francis on Common's Album

In case you missed the fun, here's Sage Francis' take on Common's Be album:
It is definitely head wrappy. Not to discredit the I Used to Love H.E.R. guy...I know he is infallible due to his ability to break dance on stage while smoking faggots like incense, but I just don't buy into the image he projects.
I like to imagine him and Kanye hanging out at a high school party playing dominoes while Common schools Kanya on how to seem more spiritual.
they exchange guilty glances in between cheerleaders and coke lines.

Speaking of Coke, that commercial he did is proof that not only will the revolution be televised, but it will also come with diabetes and union busting action! order now, before the neo-soul movement becomes even less interesting
​
For a rather less obnoxious take, check the excellent blog belonging to Wes Jackson. Andthanks to Wes, Alma, Kim, Ian and crew once again for putting last week's party together. Been too busy to post pics but believe me it was a stone gas honey.
BTW I spoke very briefly to Common about the Sprite thing, may post later.



​
yea, Common really looks like he's fiendin for that nose candy...



and what's wrong with Cheerleaders?




and why does he "like to imagine [Common] and Kanye hanging out at a highschool party...??
 
Jersey8five6 said:
lol... but 4 real man, do u agree?

i'm not sayin all of them, cuz i've met some that are mad cool. they actually don't talk **** about the mainstream for the sake of it being the mainstream, and it's amazing. they just listen to their Company Flow and keep it movin
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a lot of back backers were the unpopular kids growing up so it makes sense that they wouldnt like popular music. actually in some cases that applies 2 rappers also. every guy i ever knew that was a good rapper was the stay inside all the time type.
 
LOL This Sage dude is taking his self-proclaimed *Sage* title too far.
 
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