How Many Of Us Hip Hop Producers Play Classical Instruments?

wildinout8

wildinout8

Moderator
...and how important is playing a classical instrument (ie. upright piano, acoustic guitar, violin)?

I always enjoy discussions on how beatmakers who use strictly MPCs and records or MIDI keyboards and synths to create music view classical musicians who are completely against the art of sampling. I myself enjoy using both methods and appreciate the creativity. Do you think samples and VSTs have reached a stage where session or live musicians are replaceable?
 
I play guitar and learned classical piano (but don't actively play anymore). Been studying jazz for nearly 4 years.
I think its important (all knowledge is beneficial when it comes to making music), but that depends on the type of sound and style you are going for. I don't give a fucc if another person is content bashing out 2 finger tritone melodies with his hacked version of FL-Studio-music is music.
I don't rely on sampling, but I am not opposed to it-I started out sampling, shit. The difference is, having learned to play an instrument and ear training gives me more options for how I want to "borrow" something. I can take a melody or chord progression and transpose it to a different key, change the time signature, reharmonize it, embellish it, add articulation-whatever. Its more freedom and control in how I take whats in my head and manifest it into sound.

I do not believe that VST's are at the level of replicating an authentic human performance just yet. Its entirely possible-I use BIAB and that program pretty much allows me to have accompinament on-the-fly with its RealTracks. There are even experiments like this:

...which is the extreme.
 
Pumpthrust said:
I play guitar and learned classical piano (but don't actively play anymore). Been studying jazz for nearly 4 years.
I think its important (all knowledge is beneficial when it comes to making music), but that depends on the type of sound and style you are going for. I don't give a fucc if another person is content bashing out 2 finger tritone melodies with his hacked version of FL-Studio-music is music.
I don't rely on sampling, but I am not opposed to it-I started out sampling, shit. The difference is, having learned to play an instrument and ear training gives me more options for how I want to "borrow" something. I can take a melody or chord progression and transpose it to a different key, change the time signature, reharmonize it, embellish it, add articulation-whatever. Its more freedom and control in how I take whats in my head and manifest it into sound.

I do not believe that VST's are at the level of replicating an authentic human performance just yet. Its entirely possible-I use BIAB and that program pretty much allows me to have accompinament on-the-fly with its RealTracks. There are even experiments like this:

...which is the extreme.
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I'm at work and can't check out the video yet (it may answer my question), but what is BIAB?

Also, do you think the quality of music IYHO is different between a MIDI synth-based musician and those that have basic knowledge of classical instruments?
 
I have been playing the flute for 8 years and I love it. i basically started loving music because of the flute. i still remember trying to erite my own flute "songs" and showing them to my teacher. i guess I had it in me from the start :D. I also have a rock band in school, this year we will prepare to go on competitions and stuff like that.
 
Not all vst's are at the level of human oerformance, however there are maybe 1 or 2 real wuality vst's that sound exactly the same as a human olaying the instrument. Other than that, there aren't really aby other good vst's. Sometimes i would take a not so realistic vst and try to make it slund realistic with a bit of mastering.
 
BiaB is Band-in-a-Box from PGmusic.com they have been around since the mid 80's and provide a useful concept of put the chords in and we'll make a backing in the style you want with the instrumental lines you want (within reason). they later added soloist capabilities as well as melodic line generators. One of the craziest aspects is that you can get it to create a totally believable piece in a given genre, complete with title with no input other than key (however, in most cases it is easy to identify the created pieces as BiaB-style compositions)

as many may know I play more than a dozen instruments and read to concert level on most. I have found the ability to read and therefore write notation to be freeing rather than limiting. the visceral nature of playing a real instrument makes the process more enjoyable for me

as for vsts replacing real musicians it may be possible if the person programming the parts can incorporate human aspects of playing - this means doing things to make the performance imperfect rather than perfect - a perfect performance is lifeless and therefore flawed, whereas as a flawed performance is "perfect", if you get my meaning here - in any great work of art it is the imperfections as much as the structure and presentation that make the work gre4at, perfection is over-rated imo

on the squarepusher vid, loved the concept another few to consider is



 
Band in a Box sounds interesting, but also seems to do all the work - maybe I'm a bit masochistic, but I enjoy that work and even overcoming writers block.

I was just with my girlfriend listening to classic rock songs and we love where the singers didn't hit every note, some guitar solos were a bit off, there was willful dissonance...the imperfections make the music genuine.
 
wildinout8 said:
Band in a Box sounds interesting, but also seems to do all the work - maybe I'm a bit masochistic, but I enjoy that work and even overcoming writers block.

I was just with my girlfriend listening to classic rock songs and we love where the singers didn't hit every note, some guitar solos were a bit off, there was willful dissonance...the imperfections make the music genuine.
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BIAB is meant as a practice tool. At 4 am in the morning. how practical is it to have to call up a pianist, a drummer, a bass player, a brass section, a wind section.....just to practice some tunes or demo an idea? As for "all the work", BIAB is doing-you want to work a big band chart all by yourself, in an apartment, in the middle of the night, playing every instrument by yourself? LOL!
 
I've played piano for just over a decade and hopefully will take my diploma next year after a post grade 8 break. I like blues and jazz and I've actually just formed a soul? type band with some other students, but we haven't done very much yet.
I also play drums (at a passable standard) and bass (badly).

As for 'can vsts accurately mimic a real performer' it depends on the instrument and the style of music. Can vsts mimic singer songwriters who play 3 chords and sing over the top? Yes. Could vsts mimic a miles davis trumpet solo? No. I reckon you could get some pretty good bach out of a virtual harpsichord but you'd struggle with a Tchaikovsky violin concerto. It's not so much the quality of the part but the degree the composer expects the performer to put their own expression into it.
 
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I grew up playing classical music and performing recitals but I was always drawn towards trap music. It has helped me tremendously as far as being able to use theory to create tracks. Now I play for church but I think there is a place for classical music in hip-hop.
 
djat70 said:
I grew up playing classical music and performing recitals but I was always drawn towards trap music. It has helped me tremendously as far as being able to use theory to create tracks. Now I play for church but I think there is a place for classical music in hip-hop.
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I may actually be able to tolerate trap music if they did more than put 25 different hi hat and snare rolls over a 5 note melody on repeat and some "yeah" chants.
 
djat70 said:
I grew up playing classical music and performing recitals but I was always drawn towards trap music. It has helped me tremendously as far as being able to use theory to create tracks. Now I play for church but I think there is a place for classical music in hip-hop.
Click to expand...
I noticed a lot of (non edm...its a shame I even need to make that distinction, SMH)trap producers either started out in worship music or have a classical background.
 
Pumpthrust said:
I noticed a lot of (non edm...its a shame I even need to make that distinction, SMH)trap producers either started out in worship music or have a classical background.
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They did? Interesting.

Classical music is all about themes and melodies - pretty much the exact opposite of trap music.

It's like saying I grew up studying Monet and Van Gogh, so now I make stick figure drawings in crayon.
 
The general consensus seems to be that Trap producers don't play any instruments other than MIDI keyboards loaded with presets.
 
I don't think playing a classical instrument (or any instrument, really) is a necessity these days.

But I will say that whenever a producer knows how to play a piano, or guitar, or violin, and adds that instrument to their music, it becomes something of a "signature" for them, which definitely helps to build their brand. I know one set of relatively famous internet producers have a guitarist who puts fantastic acoustic guitars over their beats and whenever anyone asks me for a beat with acoustic guitars I just point them in that direction.

Mike Shinoda (of Linkin Park) can play a wide range of instruments and I thoroughly enjoyed his production. His grasp of different instruments was evident and it really helped the final product.
 
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