but you presented it as fact, which is a problem.
No it isn't. I presented some facts, and I presented some opinions. There is only one way to present a fact, and that is a fact.
Fact: Reason is a closed environment.
Fact: FL Studio Signature edition requires more money spent on extra stuff, regardless of what it includes, to get to the same quality of Sonar PE's included content in terms of instruments and effects. Not everything about this is subjective. Sonar's effects plug-ins are higher in quality. Sonar's instruments are higher in quality. Except for perhaps Sytrus, do you want to really debate this one?
Fact: Sonar's midi feature set is way more robust than reapers.
Fact: For the price, Sonar is a much better deal than the others.
Fact: Sonar's workflow now is more flexible and customizable, and X! makes this even better than it is now.
I can't make those "just opinions" since they are what they are. An opinion, like Live's UI looks like ass", is an obvious opinion. One shared by many people, including Live users...of which I am one. I use Live and think it looks like ass.
I can disqualify Sonar as a serious threat to FL Studio by mentioning FL's Directwave sampler... which Sonar lacks. The only DAW to include a sampler of its caliber is Logic.
Dimension Pro is an outstanding sampler, Beatscape is an outstanding sampler though underrated, and Dropzone is a decent sampler for most rudimentary sampling functions. Sonar doesn't lack a sampler...it has plenty of them.
Cakewalk "bolted on" a step sequencer to Sonar in an attempt to lure FL users away... It's kinda awkward to use... I don't like it one bit.
I think it was okay, but 2.0 is great actually. It was more embedded into the midi track rather than "bolted on" though.
I will say Sonar "bolted on" a Matrix view.
But Skylight has made it more cohesive now.
As for FL's out of the box sounds being "garbage", again, it's purely opinion.
Yes it is an opinion, a widely held one though.
I really doubt you've sat down and listened to all of the sounds in all of the synths included with FL.
I actually have. Its one of my jobs. Read our magazine. I review these products.
Having said that, I also doubt you've auditioned every sound included with Sonar. Since neither of these events have taken place, you would hardly be qualified to speak on whether FL's sounds are "garbage".
False. You should never speculate. One does not need to preview "all" in any case, just "a lot" to get a good grasp of the overall quality. As I have been with Sonar since version 3, I am quite familiar with 99.99% of it in case you must know.
Besides... only lazy @sses rely on preset sounds. The whole point of the synths is to make your own sounds... Even if all you do is tweak the presets to tailor them to your needs you're still better off than some preset junkie that uses the same sounds every other wannabe "producer" uses.
Non-
sequitur. It doesn't follow that someone is lazy because they use presets. I use presets, roll my own, tweak existing ones, etc. personally, but I would never call someone who doesn't do any of that lazy. Some people are more into composition and buying quality soundpacks from sound designers than they are into making presets. Can't knock them as being lazy for that. Not everyone wants to be a sound designer.
---------- Post added at 02:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 PM ----------
Give me a mathematical equation for calculating the value of a DAW, and then I might see how one can absolutely define which DAW is a better bargain...
That is trivially easy.
Take cost of product divided by number of features and content that scream out at you over against another product.
Next...
FL Studio's features are all fully functioning, work and sound nice, and are easy to find and use. That's all that matters. I doubt you've seen their source code, in which case you can't say if "feature enhancements over the years have been tacked on haphazardly rather than integrated cohesively."
I still have no idea what you're talking about in that sense, or how you can apparently tell...
Look at the work environment on your screen and compare it to others. This is not a new complaint against FL or anything.
In response to another post, I gave an example of Sonar "bolting on" something...the Matrix View...thankfully, Skylight solves this problem.
In any case, I never said FL doens't function. The problem is that in my opinion (<-- included to make you stop whining), it
merely functions, and that's all.
Woopty-doo, some people you know don't use it. I wouldn't use that as a representation of the whole FL Studio user demographic. It's just another tool that FL Studio offers, and doesn't take away from the DAW in any way.
Well, considering the "people I know" include people on internet forums, including this one, I would say I can get a good sampling to reflect the user demographic. The issue is not whether it takes away or adds, it is how it operates in relation to every other feature in the program and how every other feature in the program operates in relation to each other and it and so on and so forth.
There are reasons why you are eying Ableton right now...
When I said relative, I guess I partly did mean subjective, thank you Mr. Grammar, but it is also relative to what OS you're on, and what kind of music you want to make (mainly audio, mainly MIDI, etc.)
Not Mr. Grammar, Mr. Dictionary. Again, you fail. :0
Seriously, lighten up man, this is just the internet.
Anyway, your point is taken, which is why I did not bother with Logic to Sonar comparisons as the OP is on PC. In any case, Sonar has all those covered in ace fashion.
FL Studio's routing and workflow is amazing also. Frankly, I have no experience with Sonar, so I can't directly compare it. All I know is that FL's routing has kept me pleased for quite some time now.
And no, I bought FL Studio not for the content that comes with it, but rather FL Studio itself, as in the DAW, which we are comparing, not the content with the package.
1. The content is part of the DAW. Why you bought something may not be why someone like the OP just starting out will buy something.
2. I never said "FL Studio sucks". I said Sonar is better. The only two things on there that I consider to suck is Reaper and Cubarse. I like Reason, I like Live (except it looks like ass in my opinion), but I think Sonar is a much smoother product, a much better product, and that the X1 takes it to a whole other level. And for the price, FL Studio should not even be a serious option anymore unless they drastically reduce the price or add more of their other stuff to it (Toxic, Sawer, Morphine, their maximizer, etc.)
I see no point in buying a DAW package for some samples and VST's it comes with alone if you're not buying it for the program you're going to be using...
I agree. But Sonar just happens to be an awesome DAW with the added benefit of having higher quality content than the others, especially for the price.
Anyways, I buy DAW's for the functionality, as I know I can get external plugin's for anything I could possibly want, and the VST community is huge.
True enough. However, if you aren't spending thousands up front, and you aren't a pirating jackass, you may want to look at workflow, functionality and content to get going off the bat. Sonar wins on all counts over FL Studio, Live, Reaper, and Reason + Record...in my opinion. Especially since X1 lets the user define the workflow with all the tools one could possibly ask for, which means they can also customize it to leave out the unneeded as well.
Only thing I can agree with you is that yes, most samples that come with FL Studio are crap. On the other hand, it's synths are top notch (my favourite being Toxic Biohazard).
That is my favorite IL instrument as well...and if FL cleaned up their workspace, and added Toxic and the other stuff to the Signature package for a similar price range to Sonar X1, my evaluation for the OP's needs would probably have been much different, or at least less lopsided...
...but as it stands now...
Thank you for taking the time to completely understand my post, and fully appreciate my argument.
I did both understand and appropriate your argument, I did not, however, find much to agree with in it. Disagreeing is not the same thing as not understanding.
I see you not only have the magical ability to see whether or not features are "bolted on", and being able to decide the best DAW for someone else, but you can also tell my life's story from one forum post...though your prediction is wrong.
Whine to a therapist about it homey.
It isn't a magical ability, it is right there on the screen and how it all works together in a convoluted, haphazard way. It is what it is, and I'm not the only one that sees it that way.
Like logic7 said, you present your opinions as facts...not really fair.
The facts are facts, and the opinions are opinions, and the critical thinker can determine the difference. The things that are facts can not be presented as anything else though.
I have no idea about complaints regarding "fairness", that is butthurt language for the internet.
I would recommend someone to pick a DAW they're willing to stick with for a long LONG time to come. I'm finding it hard for myself to switch DAW's after I've gotten used to a certain workflow.
I can agree and disagree with that on certain levels. As you yourself are eying Ableton, I think you understand why one can disagree and agree. It is not a contradiction, as that would mean same time/same sense. I agree and disagree at the same time, but not in the same sense, thus no contradiction.
I agree that finding something that works and sticking with what works is a good and solid long term plan, but I disagree if you find something that serves other needs or works better than what you have. So in a sense, stick to what works until it doesn't, or at least until it doesn't work
entirely on its own.
I have Live for live, and Sonar for the studio. That works.