From Reason 4 to Live 8

[Focused]

and that's the thing...i think there's TWO kind of producers (generally)...

the type that's more focused on sound design...and the type that's more focused on accurate instrument emulation...

That's why its always good to listen to the music that is coming from people with opinions on this board....gives you MUCH better perspective of their opinion and their overall production goals/values........

 

[[F_or_DEAF]]

That's why its always good to listen to the music that is coming from people with opinions on this board....gives you MUCH better perspective of their opinion and their overall production goals/values........

good point...

 

[Xabiton]

save some hardware for Jr to play with lol

@F or DEAF
the MPC 5000 features are not even fully on par with the Akai Z8, which is still quite inferior to Kontakt on many levels. Kontakt is the most highly supported sample format today, nobody is really producing sample libraries made to utilize akai format samplers lol, that day passed years ago.

lol he loves my mpd16

---------- Post added at 12:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 PM ----------

I don't know. I'm not thinking about all of that. I just commented that before people start throwing away Motifs and Fantoms like that Props advertising suggests, Reason needs to be a little more serious. That's all. And I'm not saying that Motifs and Fantoms are amazing when it comes to realistic instruments, but I wouldn't throw them away and replace them with Reason. I have a Motif Rack Es. I wouldn't try to replace it with Reason.



While you're asking that, you might as well also ask, why not buy a real synth and sequencer rather than all these virtual emulations. Your point perfectly negates the reason that Reason even exists. Especially Reason since everything in it emulates hardware.

Im not negating anything I am simply saying that the most realistic guitar you are going to get is from a real guitar. i have not heard many guitar riffs played on keyboards to sound realistic imo. maybe i have not dug enough Idk but I would think a guitar would still be the best option for the best results

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 PM ----------

I can agree with Reason's sampler not having the ability to emulate a realistic acoustic guitar to it's fullest... but can only take that with a grain of salt because I'd say the same for EVERY hardware workstation keyboard in existence.

And I'm speaking for Acoustic guitar, they do just fine with bass and even though the electric patches in the Factory Bank kinda suck, the technology is there to create good electric guitar patches(plenty of refills have them).

the electric bass refill is amazing and quite realisitc

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

I like your music mayne! I left a few comments.

agreed very good music

 

[blood of a sampler]

If you go from reason 4 to live 8 then you going to go to reason 5 REASON5 is where the moneys at I know dat besides FL STUDIO 9 ..ABELTON is fake its funny that aint dont have no polyphony studpid daw or I diddnt mess with it to much and the browser folder slow as hell an warping didnt they get that from nuendo or cubase ...abelton looks and feels cheap squencer wise not my cup of tea ...reason

 

[Cash_Daily]

If you go from reason 4 to live 8 then you going to go to reason 5 REASON5 is where the moneys at I know dat besides FL STUDIO 9 ..ABELTON is fake its funny that aint dont have no polyphony studpid daw or I diddnt mess with it to much and the browser folder slow as hell an warping didnt they get that from nuendo or cubase ...abelton looks and feels cheap squencer wise not my cup of tea ...reason

I agree. Live sucks!

 

[World Wide]

the technology is there to create good electric guitar patches(plenty of refills have them).

Yo could you recommend any good electric guitar refills? I haven't personally come across any I was real impressed with.

---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

If you go from reason 4 to live 8 then you going to go to reason 5 REASON5 is where the moneys at I know dat besides FL STUDIO 9 ..ABELTON is fake its funny that aint dont have no polyphony studpid daw or I diddnt mess with it to much and the browser folder slow as hell an warping didnt they get that from nuendo or cubase ...abelton looks and feels cheap squencer wise not my cup of tea ...reason

So just to reiterate:

Live 8 is:
- fake
- funny
- studpid
- cheap squencer
- and aint dont have no polyphony

A hard argument to dispute. Case closed, my friend.

 

[Cash_Daily]

lol.............

 

[Ill Rocka]

Yo could you recommend any good electric guitar refills? I haven't personally come across any I was real impressed with.

---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------



So just to reiterate:

Live 8 is:
- fake
- funny
- studpid
- cheap squencer
- and aint dont have no polyphony

A hard argument to dispute. Case closed, my friend.

*dead*

7

 

[L. A. Stone]

I like your music mayne! I left a few comments.

Thanks for the comments!

---------- Post added at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

lol he loves my mpd16

---------- Post added at 12:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 PM ----------


Im not negating anything I am simply saying that the most realistic guitar you are going to get is from a real guitar.

Of course. I mean, seriously. Of course. I just don't know why you're bothering to point this out. Everybody knows this. So, when you reach for a guitar patch in Reason, are you hoping that it will sound like a piano?

i have not heard many guitar riffs played on keyboards to sound realistic imo.

Personally, that new Electri6ty quite simply blew me away. I could close my eyes and not know it wasn't real. And I've seen a few other guitar demos that blew me away.

maybe i have not dug enough Idk but I would think a guitar would still be the best option for the best results

Again, this is extremely obvious. As amazing as some of the virtual guitar instruments are these days, a real guitar and guitarist are still...better! Perfectly obvious. I just don't see how it relates to what's being discussed here.

 

[MosIncredible]

Bro, I believe every sound that I ever pulled up in reason sounded like the source instrument they sampled to a great extent. Expressiveness, dynamics and articulations are a different issue altogether and have more to do with performance than sampling. Although some samplers have features which allow the user to achieve more realistic articulations, Expressiveness ultimately comes from the user's playing technique and skill level. Even with the most highly intricate Kontakt multisample library out there, the user still has the opportunity to remove the realism of this instrument simply through poor playing/performance. You seem to be implying that Reason's current sampler does not have the ability to load highly detailed sample libraries and I dont agree with this.

Truth is in this one right here. I've heard people play something nice with a piano sound but with the wrong expression/midi keyboard. It comes off sounding dull for that reason and not because the program wasn't capable of producing a realistic sound.

 

[Xabiton]

Of course. I mean, seriously. Of course. I just don't know why you're bothering to point this out. Everybody knows this. So, when you reach for a guitar patch in Reason, are you hoping that it will sound like a piano?

i very seldom reach for guitar patches because they don't sound real that was my point. why not just go for the real thing if thats what you are going for.

 

[MosIncredible]

i very seldom reach for guitar patches because they don't sound real that was my point. why not just go for the real thing if thats what you are going for.

Yea, with guitar, I'd rather learn to play it than mess around with programs trying to emulate it.

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

Yo could you recommend any good electric guitar refills? I haven't personally come across any I was real impressed with.

Depends on the exact sound you're looking for. Distorted guitar is the hardest to find. Esoundz Sonic Reality Refills have tons though. Check out their "sounds of the 60s and 70s Refill". For Strats and cleaner electric sounds check out their "Triple Guitars Refill"(even Reason's factory Bank has a few gems for those).

And if you have Propellerhead Record, there's good effects to bring out more in the guitars performance(if not, you can rewire to a guitar FX plug in rig). And don't be afraid to load up a guitar rex loop and take a few licks from it to make your sound more convincing(If you can't play a few real licks over the top).

And again, i'm speaking in comparison to sounds you'd find in any other DAW, Rompler Vsti, or Workstation Keyboard(excluding stuff like Kontakt with 40gb libraries).

 

[L. A. Stone]

i very seldom reach for guitar patches because they don't sound real that was my point. why not just go for the real thing if thats what you are going for.

If you're using Reason to play synths, why not reach for the real thing?

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

Truth is in this one right here. I've heard people play something nice with a piano sound but with the wrong expression/midi keyboard. It comes off sounding dull for that reason and not because the program wasn't capable of producing a realistic sound.

That is not the truth. There are 3 critical components to a realistic guitar performance using a virtual instrument. The person, the instrument, and the sampler. If any of these 3 are not up to it, then the whole thing suffers. If the instrument doesn't have the necessary articulations, then it won't sound like a guitar. If the sampler isn't sophisticated enough to handle an instrument which does have the necessary articulations, then it still won't work. And of course, if you suck at playing the guitar parts on a keyboard, the result will still not be good. So, all 3 conditions must be met. Not just 1, or even 2. You need all three. In the case of Reason and NN-XT, 2 of those conditions are automatically not met.

 

[say it terror]

come on comparing softsynth to a real life hardware synth is not the same as comparing a multisampled guitar patch to a real guitar. it's not the same thing.

and while we could sit here all day and argue over analog v digital synths (i am idealistically in the analog camp but financial restraints put me in the digital camp). it is also a fact that there are a lot of digital hardware synths. if we want to talk low-end stuff i'd take a softsynth over a micron or microkorg anyday (and i own a micron and i think it's dope). how about the modularity of the Reason environment? this sort of setup would of course be possible in the real world. if you were a millionaire.

and if we talk about a moog lil phatty. i'd rather use softsynths and an just run it through an external moogerfooger filter. it would be a hell of a lot more cheaper (and versatile).

synthesis is a different ballgame to classical instruments.

but anyway. i agree that the nnxt is underpowered when compared kontakt.

you're going to always need different tools to do different things. yes you can make good music on ANY daw but some DAWs and programs are better suited to certain tasks.

btw i think reason crushes all hardware workstations. i don't even think they're relevant nowadays. even for the stage. DJs all over the world are using laptops constantly. reason is rock solid. a laptop and a good MIDI controller > any workstation keyboard.

 

[Focused]

Yeah LA Stone's Contention doesnt quite hold up when we start talking about guitars. Technology is able to well model the characteristics of analog and digital synths...we dont have to sit and discuss that at all. The problem with sampled guitars is not just due to the sampler....it has to do with the midi input method as well. When you play a guitar patch on a keyboard there are many problems that come up. The layout of the guitar is much different than that of a keyboard. Its very easy to voice chords on a keyboard that just dont work on a guitar, even basic 7th chords voiced on a keyboard are voiced much differently than on a guitar. There are also different types of articulations that are possible on the guitar that dont properly translate to the layout of a keyboard midi device. To blame the sound on the sampler is totally misunderstanding the disconnect. My feeling is that using a keyboard will never properly yield a fully convincing guitar line.

Guitar Trills for example will continue to be an issue when using the keyboard as an input device. While Hammer ons and Pull off are usually included in more advanced guitar sample libraries, Trill is more of a technique/performance. Simply sampling all the possible trills in existence wouldnt help, nor would creating a complex script in Kontakt. Its about the input method and initial performance first.

 

[[F_or_DEAF]]

reason crushes all hardware workstations

damn...like that???

 

[Focused]

damn...like that???

In all fairness Reason's effects aren't fully on par with workstation effects, Kurzweil and Yamaha have much better DSP when it comes to effects processing. Reason's Reverb quality easily exposes this flaw. All that said that doesn't stop someone from fully using reason in the same capacity as a workstation keyboard.

Check out Yamaha's VCM effects....reason doesnt even have a realistic Wah Wah effect still....





Workstations are still limited by how many instances of effects can be used and the actual voice polyphony available, this will never change until they become more software reliant for the processing.

 

[[F_or_DEAF]]

In all fairness Reason's effects aren't fully on par with workstation effects

word...

Reason DOES have the advantage though in being able to use COMBINATOR effects...stacking multiple variations of effects processors on top of eachother...

 

[neverenoughfunk]

Its very easy to voice chords on a keyboard that just dont work on a guitar, even basic 7th chords voiced on a keyboard are voiced much differently than on a guitar.

electric6ty handle this very well...

if you do use a product like electric6ty you have to have an understanding of how a guitar works...

i.e. open/closed chords; where at on the fret board you want the note to be place; use one string or multi strings; etc

There are also different types of articulations that are possible on the guitar that dont properly translate to the layout of a keyboard midi device.

so true...

electri6ty gives it a good try but not quite there yet...

To blame the sound on the sampler is totally misunderstanding the disconnect. My feeling is that using a keyboard will never properly yield a fully convincing guitar line.

this depends on what the guitar part is...

no "long train running" (doobie brothers)/"i'm coming out" (diana ross)/ "good times" (chic)/ any song with serious strumming...

but "some" (not all) guitar parts that use software "can" sound convincing "if" the individual that is using the software understands how a guitar functions...

Guitar Trills for example will continue to be an issue when using the keyboard as an input device. While Hammer ons and Pull off are usually included in more advanced guitar sample libraries, Trill is more of a technique/performance. Simply sampling all the possible trills in existence wouldnt help, nor would creating a complex script in Kontakt. Its about the input method and initial performance first.

this is a good example of limitatioins in software guitar apps...

electri6ty does give the "old" college try when it comes to its trill(s) feature...

but not quite there yet!!!!