E
Esco_Sincere
Guest
how should I go about creating a nice drum using frutiy loops??...I trying to get that classic rza/alchmist type of drum....
BD triggers sinewaves
Hi everybody,
I'm not quite sure if this belongs here, but I think its another useful tip. I'm going to describe how it works in Reason although there are lots of other ways to do this in hard- or software setups.
1. Create a beat with ReDrum
2. Create a Malström device, choose AcousticBass preset.
3. Press TAB, to see the rear side of the rack. Connect the Gate Out of your bassdrum to the seq control Gate of Malström.
Now everytime the BD hits, a malström sound gets triggered.
4. Now you only need to change the OscA settings: Change TubeSlap to SineWave, Octave:1, Semi:3to 0, Release to 64 or whatever. These settings aren't perfect, but you get the idea?
For best results you need a sine wave, play around with octave an AmpEnv settings.
You can hear that effect in Madonna's Frozen.I know, it's about creating basslines, but as we all know, basslines and bassdrums should be well coordinated.
Another tip, now really getting off topic: Try the same thing with snaredrum triggering pink noise. Or anything else. Use your imagination.
And to every poster above: Thank you for the great tips an' tricks.
Shad
Hi everybody,
I'm not quite sure if this belongs here, but I think its another useful tip. I'm going to describe how it works in Reason although there are lots of other ways to do this in hard- or software setups.
1. Create a beat with ReDrum
2. Create a Malström device, choose AcousticBass preset.
3. Press TAB, to see the rear side of the rack. Connect the Gate Out of your bassdrum to the seq control Gate of Malström.
Now everytime the BD hits, a malström sound gets triggered.
4. Now you only need to change the OscA settings: Change TubeSlap to SineWave, Octave:1, Semi:3to 0, Release to 64 or whatever. These settings aren't perfect, but you get the idea?
For best results you need a sine wave, play around with octave an AmpEnv settings.
You can hear that effect in Madonna's Frozen.I know, it's about creating basslines, but as we all know, basslines and bassdrums should be well coordinated.
Another tip, now really getting off topic: Try the same thing with snaredrum triggering pink noise. Or anything else. Use your imagination.
And to every poster above: Thank you for the great tips an' tricks.
Shad
S
subatomic vision
Guest
The most important thing to do is
subbass( two sines, keep it simple, lowpass 24, filter freq below the middle), cut out the 60-150 hz and everything from 4 khz on, boost subs (0-50 hz)
another simple (square) bass with two of the same osc, (make sure it doesnt phase). Apply the following freq boosts/cuts:
- cut everything below 50, boost 150-500, cut 1000-2000 khz( a small cut) and boost 4000-8000 a little.
Now take the bassdrum and the snare and implement them, now you have no phase inversion.
P.S. Be sure to keep the Q relatively low on freq cuts and boost and don't cut or boost too much...
P.P.S. You can even make it more fat by running another square bass and only use a bit of low distortion generated by a distortion and counterpan it with the other square. For instance 1ste squarebass -2, 2d squarebass (distortion) -6
subbass( two sines, keep it simple, lowpass 24, filter freq below the middle), cut out the 60-150 hz and everything from 4 khz on, boost subs (0-50 hz)
another simple (square) bass with two of the same osc, (make sure it doesnt phase). Apply the following freq boosts/cuts:
- cut everything below 50, boost 150-500, cut 1000-2000 khz( a small cut) and boost 4000-8000 a little.
Now take the bassdrum and the snare and implement them, now you have no phase inversion.
P.S. Be sure to keep the Q relatively low on freq cuts and boost and don't cut or boost too much...
P.P.S. You can even make it more fat by running another square bass and only use a bit of low distortion generated by a distortion and counterpan it with the other square. For instance 1ste squarebass -2, 2d squarebass (distortion) -6
T
tdm142
Guest
THM said:
i've done something similar in some of my songs. i just did it by ear, like all my work up to this point, but a little primitively. i basically pitch one bass (the one i want 'audible') up a few notes. then i layer a sub bass with it for the 'kinetic' bass. how can i go about doing this the RIGHT way? i have no experience with mastering, eq'ing or compression to this point, whats a good starting point?
T
tdm142
Guest
Esco_Sincere said:
word! i've been trying to get a good Rza liquid swords era bass for a long time. i want a good bass for the rapid pump, humming style bass. that's the ****.
EQ'ing
one thing that's super important about getting the bass right is to EQ other instruments in the mix so that unwanted and unnecessary lower frequencies are eliminated. For instance if you have some mid-rangey synth riff it will probably have some sounds in the 100-250 kHz range that will muddy your bass line. Roll those off and you will be surprised at how much cleaner the bass sounds sound. This makes the solo'd instrument sound a little strange, but it sounds right in the context of the full mix. Isolating each instrument's frequency range is rule#1 for proper mixing.
one thing that's super important about getting the bass right is to EQ other instruments in the mix so that unwanted and unnecessary lower frequencies are eliminated. For instance if you have some mid-rangey synth riff it will probably have some sounds in the 100-250 kHz range that will muddy your bass line. Roll those off and you will be surprised at how much cleaner the bass sounds sound. This makes the solo'd instrument sound a little strange, but it sounds right in the context of the full mix. Isolating each instrument's frequency range is rule#1 for proper mixing.
Samplecraze
Zukan
This thread's got me cookin'.
Da slide
How to create the slide effect using release:
Venv<Venv Rel 50%
Vel<pitch
Pitch<50% or
Pitch set to -24 cents
Make sure your velocity curve start at 0 and goes to 100 or you could even inverse the velocity and pitch up on release
Da slide with Mod wheel
Modwhl<pitch
Pitch<-50% or
Pitch<-24 cents
you could even assign the filter to open while sliding:
Use the above patchcord and do the following:
ModWhl<filfreq
filfreq<50%
This opens the filter while sliding down if using the above, if you want the filter to close down then :
filfreq<-50%
Use filter settings as follows eg:
Filter-lowpass
Q-30
Filfreq-10000
Filter env to be 0-100
Da slide using lfo as an effect
lfo1 select pulse if you want a dramatic repeat slide
lfo1 select sine if you want a slow undulating slide
lfo1 select saw if you want a ramp effect up and down
use low values for a single note effect, high values for weird staccato slides or a throbbing slide up n down
then:
set lfo value to .08 for slow vibe or 6 for a faster effect
lfo1<pitch
pitch<-24 cents or
pitch<50% (up to you how dramatic you want it)
venv<lfo1+100%
And you have madness
Da slide
How to create the slide effect using release:
Venv<Venv Rel 50%
Vel<pitch
Pitch<50% or
Pitch set to -24 cents
Make sure your velocity curve start at 0 and goes to 100 or you could even inverse the velocity and pitch up on release
Da slide with Mod wheel
Modwhl<pitch
Pitch<-50% or
Pitch<-24 cents
you could even assign the filter to open while sliding:
Use the above patchcord and do the following:
ModWhl<filfreq
filfreq<50%
This opens the filter while sliding down if using the above, if you want the filter to close down then :
filfreq<-50%
Use filter settings as follows eg:
Filter-lowpass
Q-30
Filfreq-10000
Filter env to be 0-100
Da slide using lfo as an effect
lfo1 select pulse if you want a dramatic repeat slide
lfo1 select sine if you want a slow undulating slide
lfo1 select saw if you want a ramp effect up and down
use low values for a single note effect, high values for weird staccato slides or a throbbing slide up n down
then:
set lfo value to .08 for slow vibe or 6 for a faster effect
lfo1<pitch
pitch<-24 cents or
pitch<50% (up to you how dramatic you want it)
venv<lfo1+100%
And you have madness
S
Stan Chic
Guest
Anyone got any good ideas of creating smooth clean sounding bass sounds on the nordlead 2 keyboard. All mine seem to be unclear, sortta muddy, no definition. Ive tried eq, distortion etc.....
Its also apparent that when moving up notes that it sounds like a crap old computer game, istead of smooth deep, but clear like a well recorded bass.
.... And when layering, how many? Is it common practice to say use all 4 of the nordlead outs for bass?? and if so, does that mean eqing them on every channel?
Some of the terminolgy: " patching a ..blah to the ..blah, how exactly do you do this. Im stuck with bass sounds as im sure some of you here already now (my winging about bass AGAIN!! heh)
Cheers. Tristan
Its also apparent that when moving up notes that it sounds like a crap old computer game, istead of smooth deep, but clear like a well recorded bass.
.... And when layering, how many? Is it common practice to say use all 4 of the nordlead outs for bass?? and if so, does that mean eqing them on every channel?
Some of the terminolgy: " patching a ..blah to the ..blah, how exactly do you do this. Im stuck with bass sounds as im sure some of you here already now (my winging about bass AGAIN!! heh)
Cheers. Tristan
Samplecraze
Zukan
The beauty of the Nord Stan is that most of what I wrote above is actually right in front of you as the synth is va architecture. The above are synthesiser patchcords for Emus and shows source and destination settings.
On the Nord, you already have lfos etc...
But I know where you're at, you're trying to actually create a bass sound from scratch.
Use a sine wave from one of the patches on the Nord or simply create a new patch and use a sine wave as one of the voices in the patch. Get that just right(too deep to go into here) and layer it with a saw wave, they're great for the deep raspy type of basses or for creating that slightly fuzzy attack. You can layer any number of waveforms, in fact I have often used 3 sine waves for one sub bass and pitched them at different octaves for fullness.
You then need to decide what the bass is meant to behave, do you want a quick snappy attack or a rolling mellow build etc...?
Using the ADSR on the Nord...Attack Decay Sustain Release you can shape the preset with regards to how quick an attack you want, or if you want a long release so when you let go the note hangs in the air.....Then you need to give the preset some body, use the oscs(oscillators) to give it some shape, say assigning osc1 to a sine and pitch at the same time, use the lfos(low fequency oscillators) to further shape the sound and then attack the filter section. The Nord has some decent filtering and you can even track the filter(chasing) which gives a far better expression than a static filter.
I dont want to bore you but the Nord is a 'hands on' instrument so play around with the knobs and understand what happens.
I do advise some synth theory and there are some great books out there, try SOS website and check out some of their books on syntheses. In fact most of the one-one tutorials I give is based on sound design and the balance on production.
Programming is great fun , you create your own custom sound sets and others will envy you
Best of luck.
On the Nord, you already have lfos etc...
But I know where you're at, you're trying to actually create a bass sound from scratch.
Use a sine wave from one of the patches on the Nord or simply create a new patch and use a sine wave as one of the voices in the patch. Get that just right(too deep to go into here) and layer it with a saw wave, they're great for the deep raspy type of basses or for creating that slightly fuzzy attack. You can layer any number of waveforms, in fact I have often used 3 sine waves for one sub bass and pitched them at different octaves for fullness.
You then need to decide what the bass is meant to behave, do you want a quick snappy attack or a rolling mellow build etc...?
Using the ADSR on the Nord...Attack Decay Sustain Release you can shape the preset with regards to how quick an attack you want, or if you want a long release so when you let go the note hangs in the air.....Then you need to give the preset some body, use the oscs(oscillators) to give it some shape, say assigning osc1 to a sine and pitch at the same time, use the lfos(low fequency oscillators) to further shape the sound and then attack the filter section. The Nord has some decent filtering and you can even track the filter(chasing) which gives a far better expression than a static filter.
I dont want to bore you but the Nord is a 'hands on' instrument so play around with the knobs and understand what happens.
I do advise some synth theory and there are some great books out there, try SOS website and check out some of their books on syntheses. In fact most of the one-one tutorials I give is based on sound design and the balance on production.
Programming is great fun , you create your own custom sound sets and others will envy you
Best of luck.
S
Stan Chic
Guest
Cheers sample craze, helpful stuff, sure could use you up here in the studio.!!!
I have the nord for about a year and mostly use it for elecronic sounds.
What Im not sure about is starting from scratch. How do you start blank and say, assign an oscilator. Why is so hard sometimes to recreate a sound after twiddling about and loosing it. Are there sub menus for patching????
Why does the bass lack clarity or sound fake! if I set the resonance low, freq lowish, sometime when I move the fm, the tuning goes nuts, other times it makes it sound metalic.
I think layering is the answer.
Thanks man, Tristan.
I have the nord for about a year and mostly use it for elecronic sounds.
What Im not sure about is starting from scratch. How do you start blank and say, assign an oscilator. Why is so hard sometimes to recreate a sound after twiddling about and loosing it. Are there sub menus for patching????
Why does the bass lack clarity or sound fake! if I set the resonance low, freq lowish, sometime when I move the fm, the tuning goes nuts, other times it makes it sound metalic.
I think layering is the answer.
Thanks man, Tristan.
Last edited by a moderator:
S
Shaw-King
Guest
Anybody here have the new Outkast CD? Have you guys heard the intro on Big Boi's CD (Speakerboxxx)? The bass one that track is just nuts!!!!! It is definitely a very good example of layered bass. If u haven't heard it, go check it out NOW....the intro is just a beat with a vocal sample cut up, but the bass makes me listen to it over and over again. Anybody know how to get bass to sound LIKE THAT? Daaaaamn that's some good bass.
chiragkotak
New member
hi
i read this whole thread and i have a few questions.
- i use fruity loops and i use the 3 osc synth basses
this bass synth has 3 oscillators.i read about layering the bass
does 3 oscillators mean that the bass is anyway being layered? i can change the shape of each oscillator.
- what is a pure waveform??
i have been experimenting with basslines for a while and find that eq and compression can make a big difference.also a plugin in fruity called bass boost gives the bass more of a feel rather than just a sound.
i have a similar complaint as a few others.my basses sound almost fake.they dont have any punchy feel.
anyway
thanks.
i read this whole thread and i have a few questions.
- i use fruity loops and i use the 3 osc synth basses
this bass synth has 3 oscillators.i read about layering the bass
does 3 oscillators mean that the bass is anyway being layered? i can change the shape of each oscillator.
- what is a pure waveform??
i have been experimenting with basslines for a while and find that eq and compression can make a big difference.also a plugin in fruity called bass boost gives the bass more of a feel rather than just a sound.
i have a similar complaint as a few others.my basses sound almost fake.they dont have any punchy feel.
anyway
thanks.
Samplecraze
Zukan
You can disengage any of the oscillators in FL, you can use one or all three and if you still cannot disengage them then simply turn the osc amp down.
A technical description of a pure waveform would involve me drawing graphs to show +1 to-1 waveforms and show the inversions along with their harmonic frequencies, so I will give the simplest explanation I can muster.
A pure waveform is a waveform that is unique to it's own shape and frequency and , in effect, what all sounds are made from,so examples would be: a sine, saw, pulse, triangle etc.....In SF development we layer , meld morph etc...waveforms to create sounds.
If you were to sample a string sound from your synth then that would not be a pure waveform unless you were sampling the individual oscs , however, if you were to create a number of sine/saw/triangle etc..combinations of pure waveforms, apply filtering, dynamics, velocity programming etc...to create the strings then you have created the strings from pure waveforms.
Usually most analogue synths have a third oscillator and this is usually assigned as a sub osc, highly useful for basses.
This is obviosly a very scant outline.
A technical description of a pure waveform would involve me drawing graphs to show +1 to-1 waveforms and show the inversions along with their harmonic frequencies, so I will give the simplest explanation I can muster.
A pure waveform is a waveform that is unique to it's own shape and frequency and , in effect, what all sounds are made from,so examples would be: a sine, saw, pulse, triangle etc.....In SF development we layer , meld morph etc...waveforms to create sounds.
If you were to sample a string sound from your synth then that would not be a pure waveform unless you were sampling the individual oscs , however, if you were to create a number of sine/saw/triangle etc..combinations of pure waveforms, apply filtering, dynamics, velocity programming etc...to create the strings then you have created the strings from pure waveforms.
Usually most analogue synths have a third oscillator and this is usually assigned as a sub osc, highly useful for basses.
This is obviosly a very scant outline.
E
Etherium
Guest
Guys, I'm a little confused.
Is my increasing the sub-bass oscillator value (on my Juno for example) adding sub-bass to my bass tone, or is this different than making a low-mid bass tone and layering it with a sub-bass sample?
Is my increasing the sub-bass oscillator value (on my Juno for example) adding sub-bass to my bass tone, or is this different than making a low-mid bass tone and layering it with a sub-bass sample?
Samplecraze
Zukan
Eth, as a test, switch off all your oscs except the sub osc and listen to the result, it's seriously deep n low. Now add another osc into the equation, say a saw and listen to the result of that, that is in effect layering the oscs. Let your ears decide what is funky and what isn't. The added advantage of oscs is that you can start with one osc and then switch or morph into another so you can have a bass that starts deep n low and ends up being a raspy type of sound.
I find that the biggest problem most programmers have is understanding frequencies and how they interact with other frequencies. Most ppl take a bass sound that is already well coloured ie it is already programmed and with it's own character, and layer it with a sub bass hoping for the same bass sound to be deeper. It doesn't work that way as there are loads of frequencies that clash and muddy each other, that is why you get the deep but muddy bass that people want to avoid. What they want is a bass with character that is deep or very low in depth but loses no detail, for that you need to understand frequencies. Otherwise ppl end up trying to clean the sound with eq, filters etc... Experiment and try to understand what is going on when you marry 2 sounds together and you won't need to end up making dramatic eq changes to get the sound you want. Filtering is always your best weapon when it comes to creating basses as you want the character of a sound but want to remove the frequencies that clash with the other sound you are trying to layer it with.
I find that the biggest problem most programmers have is understanding frequencies and how they interact with other frequencies. Most ppl take a bass sound that is already well coloured ie it is already programmed and with it's own character, and layer it with a sub bass hoping for the same bass sound to be deeper. It doesn't work that way as there are loads of frequencies that clash and muddy each other, that is why you get the deep but muddy bass that people want to avoid. What they want is a bass with character that is deep or very low in depth but loses no detail, for that you need to understand frequencies. Otherwise ppl end up trying to clean the sound with eq, filters etc... Experiment and try to understand what is going on when you marry 2 sounds together and you won't need to end up making dramatic eq changes to get the sound you want. Filtering is always your best weapon when it comes to creating basses as you want the character of a sound but want to remove the frequencies that clash with the other sound you are trying to layer it with.
T
tdm142
Guest
thanks samplecraze, that really helps me understand it a little better. i typically layer basses (prefab wav samples) and have had lots of difficulty with it because of what you descirbed. how can i filter out these conflicting frequencies in fruityloops? i'm kinda green so be specific.
M
madincraft
Guest
bass, and such.
first off, i'd like to thank all of you for your very intsightful contributions to this thread.
second, i'd like to mention Bombfactory plugins. www.bombfactory.com has some absolutely beautiful plugins for enhancing bass (among everything else). The compressors are near contendors with the original analog compressors that are now off the market and highly prized by the few producers who still have them in working condition. my personal favourite, the Moogerfooger Lowpass filter, is just beyond words. Every industry proffessional who tries them rates them right up there with the original hardware models. The moogerfooger plugin is capable of filtering and enhancing some of the most beautiful bass tones i've ever produced. it is capable of eating the most low-fi crackly bass line sample and blowing it up into a pristine rump rockin marvel.
hope you all feel what i feel, peace
madincraft
first off, i'd like to thank all of you for your very intsightful contributions to this thread.
second, i'd like to mention Bombfactory plugins. www.bombfactory.com has some absolutely beautiful plugins for enhancing bass (among everything else). The compressors are near contendors with the original analog compressors that are now off the market and highly prized by the few producers who still have them in working condition. my personal favourite, the Moogerfooger Lowpass filter, is just beyond words. Every industry proffessional who tries them rates them right up there with the original hardware models. The moogerfooger plugin is capable of filtering and enhancing some of the most beautiful bass tones i've ever produced. it is capable of eating the most low-fi crackly bass line sample and blowing it up into a pristine rump rockin marvel.
hope you all feel what i feel, peace
madincraft
Samplecraze
Zukan
TD, I dont use FL but tell me what filter facilities it has and I'll try and help, the theory is the same whatever s/ware or hardware you use.
The weapons you need for bass filtering are low-pass filter, high pass filter(for removing some of the lows), a band pass, notch and 2 or 4 pole. But even without the last 3 all you need are low, high and a 2 pole would be nice.
But get back to me with the FL filters.
The weapons you need for bass filtering are low-pass filter, high pass filter(for removing some of the lows), a band pass, notch and 2 or 4 pole. But even without the last 3 all you need are low, high and a 2 pole would be nice.
But get back to me with the FL filters.
