"Chasing Placements"

[Mev_The_Producer]

There seems to be this stigma around here that 'chasing placements' is lost cause. I may be wrong. Someone clarify - share your thoughts on this.

 

[j.troup]

No Stigma. But chasing major placements is like clamoring to get aboard the Titanic...after it's hit the iceberg.


The major label music industry (as it relates to producers and placements) has hit the iceberg (the internet). And it's put a gaping hull of the placement game. It didn't sink it immediately, but the "placement game" is taking on water fast.


More and more people are chasing less and less placements. There are just simply LESS SPOTS to get placements on...and that number is dwindling every year. So just from a business standpoint, why are you going to invest in a company who's stock is clearly plummeting? You're gonna get your money OUT of that stock as quick as possible, right?



What IS on the increase, is independent music. There are about 100x's more independent projects put out every year than major label projects. For every 1 Jay-Z album that comes out, there are about 100,000 mixtapes/indie albums that hit the streets.


If we look at a list (albeit incomplete) of albums released in 2009 as compiled by the good folks at Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_albums_released_in_2009, how many CD's are on that list?

Now how many of them are URBAN music?




For me, it was just a matter of numbers. Everybody's chasing the guys with DOLLARS, and ignoring the guys with pennies. But there's way more total money in the guys with the pennies, than there are in the guys with dollars.


Just math.

 

[DjayCas]

i only use placements to boost my lease sales

its dudes with production on some of your favorite albums still working @ target

they damn sure dont hurt tho

 

[j.troup]

i only use placements to boost my lease sales

its dudes with production on some of your favorite albums still working @ target

Say it again.

 

[F00T]

Noone should be chasing placements for money....you should be chasing placements for brand value. It's the difference in saying you graduated from Harvard and saying you graduated from Podunk City Community College: if the majors took the time to "invest" in your production....then your productions must really be worth the *INSERT PRICE TAG*.

In short...given two producers of equal talent...if you asked "Who you produced for?" Who would you give your money to?

Producer A: "Oh I produced for Young Tittyman from Camden, Jersey"

or

Producer B: "Oh I produced for Young Jeezy"

As an aside, I don't think chasing placements should be your primary goal...your primary goal should be building the foundation of that brand(ie working with other artists locally, collaborating with other producers, doing shows with your artists) so that if/when the time comes that the majors accept your deal you have leverage/and experience to bank off of that deal and create others.

Back to the school analogy: It's akin to taking the SAT, taking AP courses, and maintaining that GPA in High School....you may be smart but those things are validation of your work ethic whether it's Podunk City Community College or Harvard.

 

[Mev_The_Producer]

I clearly see what both of you guys are saying and it makes perfect sense. Attaining a placement in today's music business is comparable to getting elected to an office - if you dont have the right people behind you how do u expect to get elected?

For those who find themselves no where near the position to get a joint placed, I can understand such reasoning.

It's just a matter of going after what you want and the way you go about it.

Troup in your ideology of chasing the projects belonging to independents you are onto something, but i think you should dig just a little bit deeper.

 

[MrJames851]

going after pennies also means you have to do more work for a dollar, which probably sounds lazy, but you don't wanna be chasing pennies when your ready to retire, and if you have hundreds on top of hundreds of insignificant rappers all with your music, that doesn't really do much for your brand

 

[Mev_The_Producer]

going after pennies also means you have to do more work for a dollar, which probably sounds lazy, but you don't wanna be chasing pennies when your ready to retire, and if you have hundreds on top of hundreds of insignificant rappers all with your music, that doesn't really do much for your brand

also a very good point

 

[F00T]

going after pennies also means you have to do more work for a dollar, which probably sounds lazy, but you don't wanna be chasing pennies when your ready to retire, and if you have hundreds on top of hundreds of insignificant rappers all with your music, that doesn't really do much for your brand

Church....although it could be argued that you can boost your brand by sheer quantity....think of the soundclick producers. Another analogy:

McDonald's sells their burgers to anybody and everybody rich, poor, overweight, and starving all they need is .99

High-End Steakhouse has their price at 200% of the actual cost because they are selling
A) The experience of eating at their restauraunt
B) The gateway fee to actually enjoy the food(ie if you can't afford our product you aren't of the caliber to enjoy our experience/company of our customers)

The cook at McDonald's still makes the money he needs but he had to make 5000 burgers...the chef at High-End Steakhouse makes the money he needs and possibly more and he only had to cook 30 steaks...plus he can go brag to Higher-End Steakhouse that he used to cook at High-End Steakhouse and get hired there....while McDonald's cook is thrown out by security.

Just another angle....

 

[AJacksProductions]

I think if you simply make beats they yeah you are gonna be hurting chasing placements. But if you can prove yourself to be a valuable part of the entire process of the song from start to finish (recording the aritst, coaching the artist, writing hooks or full songs, actually producing a track, etc) then you will have a better chance at landing placements and constantly getting work.

The industry is in a tough spot right now. Thats why i think that if labels can find a way to have less people to pay then its even better.

Now this is just my opinion. I dont have any placements, and i dont wanna say that im close (dont wanna jinx anything haha) but every A&R ive working with or spoken to wants tracks with hooks or fully written songs (mind you im dealing with more pop/R&B type stuff).

As "producers" we need to take the time to learn as much as we can about music and this industry in order to maximize our opportunites and our profits. Don't limit yourself to just making beats be eager to learn and do more.

 

[Dusted Vinyl]

Get them placements to chase you shun.

 

[DjayCas]

problem is when producers ONLY look for placements on major albums




look @ the bizness for example

a few years ago they did a record on an AZ album that came out on koch. and they had nothing notable out for basically an entire year

you can not survive on 5k a year.



but if you get EVERYBODYS dollar
if you go after the dude who only has 100 bucks as well as the def jam album shelling out 3-5k per beat


even if you only want to do music and not have to be some big entrepreneur with your own tv show and new snuggie
if you got your hands in developing artists pushing your own projects with them


you might be alright.

 

[biggrome]

Here's my take on it...

If you make music and you finish a song, you don't give that song a specific purpose or avenue. You should try to lease it, try to get a placement with it, try to sell it as an exclusive, try to get a hot local emcee on it, put it in track dumps on PMP, etc.... do everything "time allows" you to do with it.

Why? because none of it is going to take anything from you. When you rule out avenues that are available to you... what is it you're actually doing but limiting your "chances".

If you don't get a placement with it... who gives a "hoot", keep working the other angles.

I took a hiatus from making music for a few months... for no specific reason (I've still been trying to help other beginners though)... the little break did me good, I'll be back out there on the playing field clogging up the lanes again pretty soon... trying to get into any and every lane that's open.

I think frustration plays a big part in what people decide not to do. Like somebody won't keep updating their Soundclick page if they don't get many leases... but they still make music... so why not take the 3 minutes to put it on the Soundclick page for the hell of it.

Jumping around and ruling out things might leave that door open for somebody else. I think WORRYING about placements is worse than CHASING them. CHASING is a strong word and if somebody's doing that... then LOL. Too much stress over something that probably won't happened more than it will.

Put your music out there and let it do what it do... if it does nothing, don't get pissed because you're probably going to make more music anyway.

That's my take on it... (and only my take, no flames please... matter of fact, don't even quote this if you have something stupid to say, just post what you think about the original topic)

 

[Robot Sunset Extreme]

problem is when producers ONLY look for placements on major albums




look @ the bizness for example

a few years ago they did a record on an AZ album that came out on koch. and they had nothing notable out for basically an entire year

you can not survive on 5k a year.



but if you get EVERYBODYS dollar
if you go after the dude who only has 100 bucks as well as the def jam album shelling out 3-5k per beat


even if you only want to do music and not have to be some big entrepreneur with your own tv show and new snuggie
if you got your hands in developing artists pushing your own projects with them


you might be alright.

Word? So it's like the whole multiple sources of income concept huh? Thanks for the perspective.

 

[DjayCas]

look @ vybe a
dude is giving away records and now almost half the songs u hear on myspace are sporting his tag

rappers are building the **** out of his brand and theyre paying him 25 bucks a pop to do the work for him

 

[DjayCas]

Word? So it's like the whole multiple sources of income concept huh? Thanks for the perspective.

it has to be like that
i know its not a new idea and its been said but the album **** is dying.
you got producers happy as hell to land an itunes bonus on a new album and u dont even get paid for that ****.

 

[Wedges2]

No Stigma. But chasing major placements is like clamoring to get aboard the Titanic...after it's hit the iceberg.


The major label music industry (as it relates to producers and placements) has hit the iceberg (the internet). And it's put a gaping hull of the placement game. It didn't sink it immediately, but the "placement game" is taking on water fast.


More and more people are chasing less and less placements. There are just simply LESS SPOTS to get placements on...and that number is dwindling every year. So just from a business standpoint, why are you going to invest in a company who's stock is clearly plummeting? You're gonna get your money OUT of that stock as quick as possible, right?



What IS on the increase, is independent music. There are about 100x's more independent projects put out every year than major label projects. For every 1 Jay-Z album that comes out, there are about 100,000 mixtapes/indie albums that hit the streets.


If we look at a list (albeit incomplete) of albums released in 2009 as compiled by the good folks at Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_albums_released_in_2009, how many CD's are on that list?

Now how many of them are URBAN music?




For me, it was just a matter of numbers. Everybody's chasing the guys with DOLLARS, and ignoring the guys with pennies. But there's way more total money in the guys with the pennies, than there are in the guys with dollars.


Just math.

But Troup I thought (according to your vids on industry swound and stuff) you are in contact with the a&r at a lot f major labels and you try to market you material straight to them. So you are chasing major placements.

 

[Dot_Robinson]

I am going to be very blunt. When we speak on brand value, chasing placements, CwF+RtB, leasing, exclusives, etc...these terms all equate to "How can I make money off my work". Look at Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart and other major retail stores. The one thing all of these stores have in common is the ability to DIVERSIFY. If you ONLY cater to one lifestyle group (Major Labels) then you'll never make a **** load of $$$$.

A dollar is a dollar. Service everyone and you'll increase your chance of making more money.

 

[j.troup]

Church....although it could be argued that you can boost your brand by sheer quantity....think of the soundclick producers. Another analogy:

McDonald's sells their burgers to anybody and everybody rich, poor, overweight, and starving all they need is .99

High-End Steakhouse has their price at 200% of the actual cost because they are selling
A) The experience of eating at their restauraunt
B) The gateway fee to actually enjoy the food(ie if you can't afford our product you aren't of the caliber to enjoy our experience/company of our customers)

The cook at McDonald's still makes the money he needs but he had to make 5000 burgers...the chef at High-End Steakhouse makes the money he needs and possibly more and he only had to cook 30 steaks...plus he can go brag to Higher-End Steakhouse that he used to cook at High-End Steakhouse and get hired there....while McDonald's cook is thrown out by security.

Just another angle....

Wrong angle...


It's either BE McDonalds and chase the people with pennies, or BE the high end steak house, and chase the people with dollars.

McDonalds resume includes customers like Michael Jordin and Kobie Brian.

High End Steak House includes customers like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.


McDonalds annual revenue >>>>>> High End Steak House.



At the end of the day, it's about MONEY.




Don't cook at McDonalds...BE McDonalds.

 

[j.troup]

But Troup I thought (according to your vids on industry swound and stuff) you are in contact with the a&r at a lot f major labels and you try to market you material straight to them. So you are chasing major placements.

Yes, but it's not my primary focus.


Diversification.


I also do actively seek music placements in TV, Movies, Video Games, Commercials, etc. As well as Indie and Major music placements.



I never said DON'T chase major placements. I'm saying don't make that your only avenue, because those lanes are becoming more and more narrow, and more and more congested.