H
HdotOnTheBeats
New member
Im using fruity loops,is there any good technique to get thumping bass & is it in the pre mix or the final mastering?i use acid pro for final mastering fyi.
Venomous
New member
If u mean a thumbing kick heres my advice.
I would say, dont have ur sounds up to high (by that I mean dont put ur faders in ur mixer to high up). This way u leave more headroom, wich will eventually give ur kick more space to ''thumb'' in . Then u should be set to start, ofcourse the sample u chose for da kick will determine what to do. But lets keep it simple for example u take a short 808 kick. Get a parametric eq en boost a few db's between 40 and 80 Hz again be gentle with it to keep ur final mix safe. Or try to cut sum mid frequenties like not a to small Q (Bandwith) but not to big either, then add a small boost between lets say 2 khz and 8 khz (play with it) and maybe a lil hi-shelfing if needed. Then u could use some compression depending on what u prefer. If u do be gentle with it, low ratio's low tresholds. Overdoin usually causes problems in the final mix, where we are gettin to now. If u mixed down everything properly. A multiband compressor would be very handy for ur master. I've experienced it do miracles in final masters (also makin the base stand out, thump and what so ever). I can tell u tho its a heavy tool, if ur not familiar with compressors I would reccomend u to get into what they do and what al knobs/parameters on a compressor actually do and why. Caus handeling a compressor properly is hard enough. A multiband is at least 4 or somtin (In case u didnt know). I cant really explain u how to use it caus I still experiment with it myself. Also make sure u take it easy with ur limiter. U'll need one ofcourse to keep ur beat from clipping, ofcourse there are always other ways for the smart people lol. But anyway its easy to destroy ur dynamics when u overdo ur limiter. There are a thousand ways u can do it u know but this would be a good start I guess, caus the whole mix needs to be on point to make ur thumpin bass come out in the first place.
I would say, dont have ur sounds up to high (by that I mean dont put ur faders in ur mixer to high up). This way u leave more headroom, wich will eventually give ur kick more space to ''thumb'' in . Then u should be set to start, ofcourse the sample u chose for da kick will determine what to do. But lets keep it simple for example u take a short 808 kick. Get a parametric eq en boost a few db's between 40 and 80 Hz again be gentle with it to keep ur final mix safe. Or try to cut sum mid frequenties like not a to small Q (Bandwith) but not to big either, then add a small boost between lets say 2 khz and 8 khz (play with it) and maybe a lil hi-shelfing if needed. Then u could use some compression depending on what u prefer. If u do be gentle with it, low ratio's low tresholds. Overdoin usually causes problems in the final mix, where we are gettin to now. If u mixed down everything properly. A multiband compressor would be very handy for ur master. I've experienced it do miracles in final masters (also makin the base stand out, thump and what so ever). I can tell u tho its a heavy tool, if ur not familiar with compressors I would reccomend u to get into what they do and what al knobs/parameters on a compressor actually do and why. Caus handeling a compressor properly is hard enough. A multiband is at least 4 or somtin (In case u didnt know). I cant really explain u how to use it caus I still experiment with it myself. Also make sure u take it easy with ur limiter. U'll need one ofcourse to keep ur beat from clipping, ofcourse there are always other ways for the smart people lol. But anyway its easy to destroy ur dynamics when u overdo ur limiter. There are a thousand ways u can do it u know but this would be a good start I guess, caus the whole mix needs to be on point to make ur thumpin bass come out in the first place.
Bryst
New member
Try stacking a punchy Kick drum over a sub synth or real subby kick drum. Let the sub come through stronger around 60-80 hz and let the kick come through stronger around 120-130 hz. This is what I do, and I generally get good results.
Like Venemous said, you can also add a little to the kick in 2000-8000 range. Maybe pick an area in there that you mix isn't already using for another instrument. This will add to the 'click' of the kick.
I also agree with Venemous about the final mastering. Compression/limiting is something you have to be really careful with, but it can make your mix sound fantastic if done right.
When mixing bass/kick always listen on large monitors. Headphones/small monitors will NOT give a good read, and you'll end up with a poor sounding bass range when you play it back on other systems.
Like Venemous said, you can also add a little to the kick in 2000-8000 range. Maybe pick an area in there that you mix isn't already using for another instrument. This will add to the 'click' of the kick.
I also agree with Venemous about the final mastering. Compression/limiting is something you have to be really careful with, but it can make your mix sound fantastic if done right.
When mixing bass/kick always listen on large monitors. Headphones/small monitors will NOT give a good read, and you'll end up with a poor sounding bass range when you play it back on other systems.
J
Jonny_silva
New member
It is very UNADVISABLE to boost around the 40hz area unless you can hear properly what is going on. For all you know your room/monitors could be manipulating the sound of the bass to how it actually sounds. Then if you get your song played in a club you could blow their subs! Not a good start to your career lol.
You should try cutting below 30-40hz, this will cut out a lot of mud and make your bass alot more clean and sharp. As they said above, alot of the 'thump' you hear on pro tracks has beeb brought out in the mastering stage.
Also do a high pass on all other instruments that dont need bottom end, clear up as much room as you can for the bass in the bottom end so it can thump through un apposed by frequencies from other sounds.
You should try cutting below 30-40hz, this will cut out a lot of mud and make your bass alot more clean and sharp. As they said above, alot of the 'thump' you hear on pro tracks has beeb brought out in the mastering stage.
Also do a high pass on all other instruments that dont need bottom end, clear up as much room as you can for the bass in the bottom end so it can thump through un apposed by frequencies from other sounds.
S
smasuno
Guest
If you're talking about thumping bass like in techno-style, that is a technique called side-chain compression. You send your kick drum to the compressor of your bass synth and compress them together. You can control the effect with the ratio and attack/release, but what basically happens is the bass kicks in right after your kick drum is played, creating a thumping effect.
Over Dose
Engineer
you are right and wrong.
You put a compressor on the bass track, then set the kick to a buss. Then you go back to the compressor and turn the "key" to whatever buss you are sending from the kick. then... you turn on side-chain. Its not compressing them them together. The compressor is reading the kick, so it turns the bass down when the kick is hitting which makes room for the kick to come through
A
acetheface954
Active member
i use fl9 myself. if you go on youtube and type in "FL Studio Guru - Getting Thump & Punch"in the search bar it'll show you what you need to do. this youtube channel is specifically made by imageline so you're going to get info that actually works.
---------- Post added at 06:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 AM ----------
i keep hearing that word thrown around. what exactly is a buss? is that sidechaining???
A
abstraction uk
New member
a buss is a point in your mixing environment which you can route signals to, without busses, every channel in the mixer would go straight to the master (which is also a buss). so busses allow you to make sub-mixes (aka groups or sub-groups), use effects in parrallel (aka fx sends and returns) etc or route signals to the side chain of a compressor (mostly just refered to as sidechaining).
when you use a compressor in the 'standard' way, it splits the input signal, sends one copy to and amplifier, and the other copy to the sidechain. The sidechain measures the level of the input signal and then tells the amplifier how much to reduce the gain.
some compressors allow you to connect a completely different signal to the side chain so that when one signal goes over the threshold, the other signal gets reduced in level. a very common use of this technique is using the kick to compress the bass as described above
A
acetheface954
Active member
is bussing a necessary thing to do? i know sidechaining is since i'm making electronic music. bussing to me sounds like i group sounds together and they all function off of one plugin. i guess i need a visual. or just do it myself and come back to you with a report.
A
abstraction uk
New member
what do you mean by necessary? if you want to apply one effect to several sounds all together then you would normally choose to use a buss to do that. but theres no rule that says you have to use them in every tune. also sidechaining is common in electronic music and recordings of conventional instruments but not necessary. apologies if thats not what you meant
A
acetheface954
Active member
oh no not at all friend. no need to apologize because you answered my question. bussing is useful but doesn't need to be applied. same goes for sidechaining so thank you. still trying to get the hang of the whole bussing thing though. the tutorial on youtube is kind of hectic lol.
Dre Major
Mix Engineer
As alluded to:
Proper sounds
Proper Monitoring
Proper sounds
Proper Monitoring
A
acetheface954
Active member
Insightful. I'm going to start harrassing you guys a lot lol. Should the bass have a bit of a punch to it or does the main kick provide all the thump you will need? And what of the bassline? Should that have more gain than the bass kick or should it be a couple of dB below it? This if for progressive house music by the way. I'm in the midst of mastering what I've mixed.
A
abstraction uk
New member
first of all, deciding the relative levels between bass and kick is a mixing issue imo. if you've got as far as mastering and the kick+bass arent right yet, go back to the mix and fix it there
i think its common in house for the kick to be a peaking a few db above the bass, but as always it depends on the sounds so do what your ears tell you.
start with the faders at the bottom and bring the kick up to a reasonable level, then fade up the bass until they sit well together. if you cant find a point where they sound good, then you need to go back to the eq/compression/synth settings because something aint right with the sounds
i think its common in house for the kick to be a peaking a few db above the bass, but as always it depends on the sounds so do what your ears tell you.
start with the faders at the bottom and bring the kick up to a reasonable level, then fade up the bass until they sit well together. if you cant find a point where they sound good, then you need to go back to the eq/compression/synth settings because something aint right with the sounds
A
acetheface954
Active member
I've been in and out of the mixing and the mastering sessions for this record since november lol. But hat's not really where my problem is. See I'm talking progressive house music here so I use two kicks, one to cut through the mix and one that provides sub kick, and a prominent bassy lead or bass guitar. So far I know that the main kick should be the loudest at 0dB and the sub kick should be some dB under that. But what about the bassy lead or bass guitr? Should it have more presence? I hope I'm not being bothersome about all this.
H
HIMbeats
Guest
Kick and bass methods are a little different for hip hop/rap then they are for house tracks. I used to make a lot of electro house years ago working with someone who worked with KLF and I still use this method if i am doing house. We used 3 layer kicks always. 1 kick is hypercompressed, then a big kick(808, rock kick sample,etc) and a 909 kick. The 909 was always panned left so it would stick out in the mix and we sidechained the 808 to the bass after running it through an amp and the hyper kick provides the bottom somewhere between 50 and 80. Each track is different and there are no magical settings, but I thought I would throw my method in the ring...it might help you out.
A
acetheface954
Active member
omg three kicks? lol wow man. yeah i know the differences between genre styles and the choice of percussion and grooves that make it what it is. but yo man can you provide a link where i can hear one of your tracks?
I
inkexit
Guest
seems like no matter what kick sample / bass instrument I've chosen, I almost always end up boosting somehwere between 40 and 100 hz on the master channel. If your kick sample is very short and punchy, you may want to try to time stretch it out a bit. I've never ran furity loops, but in ableton this is very easy to do. On the other hand, if you have a very long boomy kick, like and 808 stretched out and on steroids, you actulayy will probably want to shoorten the sample a bit. While that long bass sounds great on its own, it realy will only muddy up a full mix. You'll be able to feel it more than you can really hear it. Your mix will sound kind of muffled and washed out.
Be sure also to low cut everything but your kick, too.
And of course this is obvious, but if you want booming bass, make sure your kick is the loudest thing in your mix (except vocals) and that the bass instrument is right underneath it, just barely under it.
Be sure also to low cut everything but your kick, too.
And of course this is obvious, but if you want booming bass, make sure your kick is the loudest thing in your mix (except vocals) and that the bass instrument is right underneath it, just barely under it.
Last edited by a moderator:
H
HIMbeats
Guest
lol..yeah I know three kicks sound like alot but they are molded with eq to work together. I mainly do r&b and pop stuff now, but I do have a track that I used 3 kicks on about 6 months ago for my friend Random Focus. So even though it was a rap song, he has a wacky rap style and because of the bpms I used my old house method for the kicks. If i remember right its a 808, some club kick from a kit and a 909, but don't quote me on that cuz I don't really remember. This is the track as I had it before his vocals were added....I just put it up so you can hear it.
http://soundcloud.com/mr-himbeats/beat37-wait
A
acetheface954
Active member
yeah time stretching is super easy on fl9. i made the adjustments and already i see a big difference. before i had this big long bassy 808 which i thought was good because i hear it in hop hop all the time. thought progressive house would be somewhat the same. eh! wrong. the sucker had a tail longer than a sea serpent dawg lol. i guess shortening the tail made it tighter. i always heard that term to. "make sure elements in the mix are tight" or something like that. probably what they meant. the muffling i heard. it warped my highs. jesus i don't want to get into that.
---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 PM ----------