Can learning piano make you that much greater

knowing the theory of tension and release will not hurt.. at all. ever. knowledge truly is power in this situation. i would go as far as saying it could be like putting your songs on steroids.
 
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One guy had it right... knowing theory will make you stick to rules.

It's like a guy that has the opportunity to do a dunk and take the ball between his legs beforehand vs. a guy that will do a lay up...

lay up guy is the guy that knows theory... he can't take a chance / risk because he knows he's more apt to miss - he is no longer a risk taker... so he bores people to phuggin' death with his lay ups and bounce passes... while the guy that doesn't know theory makes passes like Hot Sauce from And 1...

People that know theory can no longer think out of the box... they play great inside of that box... but they can't do anything innovative (anymore).

Sort of like when Kanye West sped up samples or DJ Screw slowed down records... they did what they wanted to do and something came out of it. Primo and Pete Rock had been sampling for years but probably would've never taken those "chances" for fear of what other samplers would think...

If you know theory, you'll start to wonder if other people think your music is musically sound.... if you don't know any better... you just make music...

Hip Hop has been around for 30 years and not many of the top producers took any theory lessons.

I kinda hate that I attempted to learn any theory... music is so much more fun when you only know what sounds good to your ear. It's almost like sitting in church vs. wilding out at a concert... sitting in church is music theory...

Click the song in my sig and tell me what's wrong with it... my process in making it was to load up sounds in Sampletank and beat on my midi controller until things sounded good together. I recommend that everyone do that, lol.

Plus I have this - http://www.drawmusic.com/ - it has the keys that sound good together highlighted in green... if you are not color blind... you can skip piano lessons...

and I have this.... http://www.7aliens.com/product-catanya.php

^^^ watch that vid and tell me how much theory I need to know...

then listen to the song in my sig... (I did that one without using those two "tools" though, just three fingers and two ears)


No hate on theory... but "attempting" to learn it... only held me back. So I stopped trying to learn it. I make my music from what "feels right" and what "goes together" according to what I hear coming from the monitors...

tis all... plus LIVE 8 has scale and chord plugins if I wanted to use 'em...
 
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biggrome said:
One guy had it right... knowing theory will make you stick to rules.

It's like a guy that has the opportunity to do a dunk and take the ball between his legs beforehand vs. a guy that will do a lay up...

lay up guy is the guy that knows theory... he can't take a chance / risk because he knows he's more apt to miss - he is no longer a risk taker... so he bores people to phuggin' death with his lay ups and bounce passes... while the guy that doesn't know theory makes passes like Hot Sauce from And 1...

People that know theory can no longer think out of the box... they play great inside of that box... but they can't do anything innovative (anymore).

Sort of like when Kanye West sped up samples or DJ Screw slowed down records... they did what they wanted to do and something came out of it. Primo and Pete Rock had been sampling for years but probably would've never taken those "chances" for fear of what other samplers would think...

If you know theory, you'll start to wonder if other people think your music is musically sound.... if you don't know any better... you just make music...

Hip Hop has been around for 30 years and not many of the top producers took any theory lessons.

I kinda hate that I attempted to learn any theory... music is so much more fun when you only know what sounds good to your ear. It's almost like sitting in church vs. wilding out at a concert... sitting in church is music theory...

Click the song in my sig and tell me what's wrong with it... my process in making it was to load up sounds in Sampletank and beat on my midi controller until things sounded good together. I recommend that everyone do that, lol.

Plus I have this - http://www.drawmusic.com/ - it has the keys that sound good together highlighted in green... if you are not color blind... you can skip piano lessons...

and I have this.... http://www.7aliens.com/product-catanya.php

^^^ watch that vid and tell me how much theory I need to know...

then listen to the song in my sig... (I did that one without using those two "tools" though, just three fingers and two ears)


No hate on theory... but "attempting" to learn it... only held me back. So I stopped trying to learn it. I make my music from what "feels right" and what "goes together" according to what I hear coming from the monitors...

tis all... plus LIVE 8 has scale and chord plugins if I wanted to use 'em...
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ya, but wouldn't you be golden if you learned theory but you still innovated. I feel lke I know basic theory (scales and chordes) but that doesn't stop me if somethin sounds dope. I would suggest learning some basic theory so that way you can atleast find chorde progressions faster or find what scale a sample is in faster etc. I think the little music theory I know has done nothing but help me.
 
I have taken AP music theory in my school (which is college level music theory) so I do know theory fairly well. What I want to clear out is that just because you learn theory, doesnt mean you wont think outside the box. All it does is give you names to things you have known, and will help you come up with some common chord progressions. Those who think inside the box are just uncreative and it has nothing to do with theory. Theory can only help, along with learning the piano. Also, learning to read sheet music is pretty much essential if you want to play music professionally (whether in an orchestra or as a session musician etc.....) Theory and reading sheet music can only help, not learning them will only hurt you in the long run. Your music isnt any better because you "learned it all your self" (which is frankly, impossible) I'm not talking about anyone here when i say that, but just in general. You dont need to take lessons, but dont not learn theory because you want to "do it yourself". Thats just plain stupid.
 
Zami77 said:
I have taken AP music theory in my school (which is college level music theory) so I do know theory fairly well. What I want to clear out is that just because you learn theory, doesnt mean you wont think outside the box. All it does is give you names to things you have known, and will help you come up with some common chord progressions. Those who think inside the box are just uncreative and it has nothing to do with theory. Theory can only help, along with learning the piano. Also, learning to read sheet music is pretty much essential if you want to play music professionally (whether in an orchestra or as a session musician etc.....) Theory and reading sheet music can only help, not learning them will only hurt you in the long run. Your music isnt any better because you "learned it all your self" (which is frankly, impossible) I'm not talking about anyone here when i say that, but just in general. You dont need to take lessons, but dont not learn theory because you want to "do it yourself". Thats just plain stupid.
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See what I highlighted?

As said the last 20 posts, everyone keeps coming in saying what works for them like everyone doesn't have different methods. I'm not "anti learning" i'm "anti telling everyone learning is the way to improve".

That's like telling everyone making drums in a step sequencer is right. What about folk who play live drums? What about folk on MPCs or who play out drums on keyboard. There is never an answer to anything in music, but the simplest facts remain.

Nomatter what side of the debate you're on, you have to agree, all theory does is give you the names of the techniques. What you already know is left to each individual. How can it teach someone advanced techniques if they already know them and how to apply them? All it can teach them is the name of it.

And it's bullsh*t to say what the next human is or isn't capable of from your experience. I'll say again, I know hundreds of musicians who learned to play from doing nothing more than "listening and teaching themselves". Most don't exsist on a keyboard, because when you have money to buy the accompanying gear, you have $10 for a damn book.

Don't sit here and tell me not reading up on theory takes away from that blues player who went to a pawn shop and bought the cheapest bass and harmonica they had and didn't look back just because it wasn't your path. I've respectfully repeatedly told you and all the bookworms in this thread the same.

THE ONLY THING THAT WILL WORK FOR YOU IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU IF YOU HAVE TALENT.

Now lie and say you've never had a Professor who can tell you the name of what you're doing, but can't do it as well as you do(it's a pretty common thing, so if you can't admit to it, it's a reflection on your skills, not your teachers). Talent. period. Everything else is left to the individual.
 
try using western music theory to describe african ployrhythms and indian music... doesnt quite work, same with hip hop, and punk, two of the most honest forms of expression in music id say (except most modern hip hop) in the beginning, the golden days imo, it was born out of the oppression of the poor, the need to express the situation, the beats werent even invented, just looped breakbeats so people could dance, do you htink grandmaster flash or dj kool herc knew everything bout theory when they started? no they knew how to achieve what they wanted though, or one of the most influential punk bands, fugazi, who influenced a lot of the hip hop you hear today (not just the crap im putting in a guitar now its a rock beat type of stuff) definitely didnt know theory. idk ive veered off topic here but consider the development of punk in relation to hip hop, it started off honest and raw, expressing themselves the best way they knew how, and could afford to, but then over time, youll notice that they learned how to play their instruments, and a lot of them moved on to complex stuff, stuff that is studied and emulated today, in notes, but the feeling just isnt there. the most mainstream example being green day, they sucked at their instruments starting out, now they know how to play and became more ambitious, in the process killing pop punk, by going right into the production end that they hated about prog, look at the ramones, they knew 3 chords. now hip hop was a diy thing originally, a rebellion, a way to express the city life, it wasnt meant to be studied in ever note and detail, but felt inside, so that someday the listener would be inspired to continue their work. i think if you can learn theory without getting locked into thinking things like, ok im going with a 1 4 5 chord progression when you make a beat, then you should by all means learn it, but if you find that happening to you, its time to sit back, find new music, let the knowledge sink in, and come back when you have an inuitive knowledge of it that you dont need to think about anymore, thats what seperates "the men from the boys" id say haha
 
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totaly

wld have to agree it does.I know its sound broken record at dis point bt i wldnt be doing wht im doing wit out knowing basics of da keys
 
piano gives u that visual of where the sound is from top to bottom that others can't. Guitar is more natural for chord progression though which makes it easier to write pop songs.
 
it is great to have knowledge with a piano. i am no virtuoso with the keyboard, but i know the basic shit. i can make a good beat without a sample. keyboard is good to know.
 
Word I wanna get better on the piano, of course it'll make you better.

Anybody saying otherwise is full of it, why wouldn't learning an instrument make you a better musician?

It's like saying does learning how to handle the basketball make you a better basketball player?

Of course it does.
 
3ternal said:
Word I wanna get better on the piano, of course it'll make you better.

Anybody saying otherwise is full of it, why wouldn't learning an instrument make you a better musician?
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good point, but is it necessary knowledge? helpful of course, a lot of people get by without it it seems though, maybe they are succeeding in spite of their limitations in theory/piano knowledge/skills, rather than because of it as some have suggested? i was thinking about something i read about how some drummers have poor technique and are still great, and people saying that fundamentals arent all that important, but the drum teacher said it should be looked at as they became great despite their lack of fundamentals, is this a similar thing? idk
 
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