Blatant stock reason samples in commercials and TV

[dvyce]

Here is an analogy:

Making music is like being a chef...

You can order chinese food from the local take-out place.

Then you can mix the "beef and broccoli" together with the rice and throw in some crunchy noodles and even squirt some "soy sauce" on top.

...but that does NOT make you a "chef"

...it may taste good, but you sure as hell ain't a "chef" just because you combined some stuff together that someone else cooked.



(and for anybody who can't make the connection from "chef" to "producer/composer"--- you are not a "producer/composer" if you just combing some loops together than someone else made)

 

[swoopsoup]

I'm not too sure about other genres other than Hip Hop/Rap, but I think Hip Hop producers are the only ones who defend using loops (from songs that is). Am I right?
From what I gather, Rock (or from other genre/industry) producers/musicians usually hate their Hip Hop counterparts for "biting". Any truth in that?

 

[Bezo]

I'm not too sure about other genres other than Hip Hop/Rap, but I think Hip Hop producers are the only ones who defend using loops (from songs that is). Am I right?

I make hip hop music. Though I don't use samples myself, I respect & admire those that use them in creative ways. Chopping & rearranging a sample can be quite creative. Using one shots, same deal. Combining several samples in one song? Nice!

Loops that haven't been minipulated in any way, off a record or from software, is not very creative. Of course, you can put some nice drums under it and make it sound good, but other than respecting your digging skills, there's not much I would compliment the producer for. And there's nothing for me to appreciate when someone uses a pre-recorded loop from software.

From what I gather, Rock (or from other genre/industry) producers/musicians usually hate their Hip Hop counterparts for "biting". Any truth in that?

I'm sure some enjoy the payday. But yes, some hate it. Especially those that don't have the power to make the decision to allow someone to use the sample. I imagine James Brown's drummers are pissed. Their breaks got used without their permission, and unless JB sends them a check, they didn't get paid either.

Personally, unless someone was paying me well, I'd hate for my music to be sampled. I work hard to get the sounds I come up with.

 

[dvyce]

as someone who makes music professionally in all different styles, I will tell you this...

Using loops sampled from actual songs can be a legitimate artform. The use of samples in this manner is a style of music. It can be an artistic choice to use sample in this way...

It is similar to how Andy Warhol used the "Campbells Soup can" or the image of "Marilyn Monroe" in his art...

or how Jeff Koons made sculptural art based on existing photographs...

or how Marcel Duchamp used found object such as urinals, bicycle parts and chairs as the building blocks for his art.

(if you don't know any of these people, look them up)


There are some people who appreciate that type of art and some people who don't... but no matter how you feel about it, it is a "real" artform.



BUT...

Using loops from sample CD's and from software... using pre-made patterns....

Well, that is not respected professionally by anyone.

that is the equivalent of buying a table from IKEA and assembling it at home, AND CALLING YOURSELF A CARPENTER!

Those loops are specifically made as a shortcut tool for people who can't actually make music on their own. They serve no other purpose whatsoever. There is no honor in using those loops.


Yes, they are made to be used for "music making"... just like a "paint-by-numbers" set is made for "painting"

 

[Mr. sickVisionz]

TV guys don't care. They're the same ones making knock off versions of "Hot in Herre" for burger king commercials. Biting and jacking is what they base their careers off of.

"...and there is no difference between music on a CD and music on TV. It is all music and the client always wants the best music possible. If you make second-rate music for CD's or for TV, you won't get very far in your career.

That is a fact."

Thats true, but its interesting to note that you haven't commented on the quality of the music made at all. Using a guitar lick or a loop doesn't instantly mean that the music you make is garbage. I'd never use some "bangin hip-hop guitar loop 017" from a sample CD, but at the same time I wouldn't say that if you do, your music is garbage by default. For me, nothing about how a beat is made makes the music bad. Even if you straight up steal someone's work and throw your name on it, that doesn't make it a bad song. It makes you shady and illegitimate, but if your song makes me nod my head and tap my foot and has me humming the hook, i have a hard time saying its a bad song.

Its like Millie Vanilli. They weren't actually the singers of the songs... but how could you have just bought their album, loved it and called it great, then once you find out they didn't sing it, you're like, "these songs are horrible. Worst album ever" I can see you not respecting them as artist, but nothing changed about the song that you said you loved and enjoyed.

 

[desperatetimesmusic]

Oh and another thing I just thought of.... tell me you havent seen dozens of movies where a sound effect you know youve heard before.. the EXACT one is used. I can think of a few but I cant describe the sound of some. One is this woman scream that almost sounds like two syllables lol... not just "AAAAHHH" but more like "AAAAAHHHUH!" I dont like stock sounds so much either, but I'm playin devil's advocate here... It's apparently a pretty accepted thing in showbiz it seems.

ha ha are you talking about the Wilhelm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_scream

 

[Bezo]

TV guys don't care. They're the same ones making knock off versions of "Hot in Herre" for burger king commercials. Biting and jacking is what they base their careers off of.

I just read an interview in TapeOp where a guy is making knock-0offs for tv. He said execs will specifically request a tune with the understanding that he will change it just enough so they don't get sued.

In this case, if that's what they want, and you're willing to make a career of it, by all means... But this is still different than using a pre-record loop provided with software. Recreating a tune with some modifications at least takes some cover band level talent. And the guy in the interview covers a lot of styles and genres. I believe he was a rock guy when it came to his own music, but he's gone as far as hip hop & electronica with these tv spots. But I don't see the talent in using a pre-recorded loop.

 

[dvyce]

TV guys don't care.

That is not true and it is a very naive statement. They do care. One person may have better taste than another, but they always are trying to get the best music possible.

They're the same ones making knock off versions of "Hot in Herre" for burger king commercials. Biting and jacking is what they base their careers off of.

Well, wouldn't call paying a few hundred thousand dollars for the rights to remake "Hot in Herre" to promote their hot&spicy chicken sandwich a "knock off" nor is it "biting" or "jacking"


Plus, not every commercial needs "cool" music... and having "cool" music would not be appropriate in every situation.

There are plenty of comedic commercials that would not be appropriate having "cool" music... or a commercial for some kind of household produce that needs silly music... or something geared towards a really young or really old demographic...

There are many reasons why a particular piece of music is chosen for a commercial... but I can tell you that they always want the best possible music which is in the style appropriate for the situation.

"...and there is no difference between music on a CD and music on TV. It is all music and the client always wants the best music possible. If you make second-rate music for CD's or for TV, you won't get very far in your career.

That is a fact."

Thats true, but its interesting to note that you haven't commented on the quality of the music made at all.

What are you talking about? Everything I am saying here is about the quality of the music.

Using a guitar lick or a loop doesn't instantly mean that the music you make is garbage. I'd never use some "bangin hip-hop guitar loop 017" from a sample CD, but at the same time I wouldn't say that if you do, your music is garbage by default.

You keep saying "your music"... do you understand that my point is that if you are using a guitar loop from a sample CD as the basis for your song, then it is not "your music"?

If you do that, "YOU" are not making music... all "YOU" are doing is assembling a construction kit that someone else made so people who do not know how to write music themselves can use.


...big deal... you found a nice loop on a sample CD... I would hope you could find a decent loop on a sample CD since they are full of loops... that does not make you a "producer" or a "composer"

For me, nothing about how a beat is made makes the music bad. Even if you straight up steal someone's work and throw your name on it, that doesn't make it a bad song. It makes you shady and illegitimate, but if your song makes me nod my head and tap my foot and has me humming the hook, i have a hard time saying its a bad song.

who said anything about a "bad song"?

The point is that you did not make the song... and if you sell that song to someone, they will be very angry if they find out you gave them a loop that anyone else can use.

Just because you pick "bangin guitar riff #17" from a sample CD does not make "you" a songwriter or a producer.

Its like Millie Vanilli. They weren't actually the singers of the songs... but how could you have just bought their album, loved it and called it great, then once you find out they didn't sing it, you're like, "these songs are horrible. Worst album ever" I can see you not respecting them as artist, but nothing changed about the song that you said you loved and enjoyed.

I hope you understand that is a completely different situation.

It doesn't relate to this discussion at all.

 

[MattM]

Thats true, but its interesting to note that you haven't commented on the quality of the music made at all. Using a guitar lick or a loop doesn't instantly mean that the music you make is garbage. I'd never use some "bangin hip-hop guitar loop 017" from a sample CD, but at the same time I wouldn't say that if you do, your music is garbage by default. For me, nothing about how a beat is made makes the music bad. Even if you straight up steal someone's work and throw your name on it, that doesn't make it a bad song. It makes you shady and illegitimate, but if your song makes me nod my head and tap my foot and has me humming the hook, i have a hard time saying its a bad song.

Its like Millie Vanilli. They weren't actually the singers of the songs... but how could you have just bought their album, loved it and called it great, then once you find out they didn't sing it, you're like, "these songs are horrible. Worst album ever" I can see you not respecting them as artist, but nothing changed about the song that you said you loved and enjoyed.

I can totally agree. It's always the music first and what is coming out the speakers - and if it sounds good it sounds good.

I don't use loops 99% of the time, just because I feel I have better compositional control over each aspect of my own music, but that's just my artistic preference. As a listener though, I could care less.