Blatant stock reason samples in commercials and TV

Lodger

Lodger

Certified Funk Master
hey, all-

i was just curious if anyone else noticed (and was slightly irritated by) tv shows and commercials that just rip-off Reason's internal stock sounds(particularly riffs and progressions)...

so far i've seen a slew of commercials, tv shows (check out west-coast choppers for some rhodes riff abuse), and heard samples in other sources such as films, etc

with no offense to these artists, c'mon...its time to use these resources creatively or pass the torch to someone who can.:bat:

anyone else have any stock sound sightings to point out?

-Lodger
 
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Thats why you pay for the programs right? There royalty free so use away. TI- "What you know" all stock Reason sounds
 
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The people who simply use musical sampled phrases are hacks.

They are seen as hacks in the industry by their "peers."

They are not respected in the industry.

If the people hiring them to make this music knew they were doing this, they would not be happy.
 
I think I'll take a program offa casio and go make a hit... wait? It's been done already? dammit... :(
 
I dont see anything too wrong with using stock patches from a program/workstation i.e. Reason, but to use stock loops that come with it, without even chopping them up, that is lazy and shows no talent.
 
People have been doing that with reason sense reason came out (old news)

I've used Rex loops for jingles why? Easy money noone else using it ima use it. Hell i paid for it why not.

Why chop it if it fits what the client wants?(especially for Mtv) Why do extra work when you don't have too? Seriously think about that.
 
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I remember back in the day I would always recognize commercials and shows using planet phatt sounds.. i sound old now.
 
^ HAAHA


A lot of the times the companies have the apps as well and use the presets themselves.

WHY? Well, Cheaper for them. They dont have to pay anyone
 
Cyko said:
People have been doing that with reason sense reason came out (old news)

I've used Rex loops for jingles why? Easy money noone else using it ima use it. Hell i paid for it why not.

Why chop it if it fits what the client wants?(especially for Mtv) Why do extra work when you don't have too? Seriously think about that.
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you'll never work in this town again!
:D
 
Oh and another thing I just thought of.... tell me you havent seen dozens of movies where a sound effect you know youve heard before.. the EXACT one is used. I can think of a few but I cant describe the sound of some. One is this woman scream that almost sounds like two syllables lol... not just "AAAAHHH" but more like "AAAAAHHHUH!" I dont like stock sounds so much either, but I'm playin devil's advocate here... It's apparently a pretty accepted thing in showbiz it seems.
 
there are many different levels of hierarchy in the arts (i.e., music, film, print)

There are the hacks who use pre-fab musical phrases in their tracks... and the hacks who use the overused photoshop filters in their visual art... and the hacks who make the art sold in the mall...


Then, at the other end of the spectrum, there are the people who are respected in their industries who create original works of quality art/music.



It is not accepted in the upper levels of the music industry.

The only people who accept it are the ones who don't know any better... and the ones who don't care about the integrity of their work.



The ones who are able to attain real success in this business are the ones who offer something creative and original.


So, it is not an "accepted thing in showbiz"... it does happen... but it is not "accepted"... If your client knew that chord pattern you based your track on was a big loop off a sample CD (or whatever) they would not be very happy.

People are hired to make original music because the client wants an original piece that has its own identity than they can call their own, where when people hear it, they know it relates to their project.

If the project is a low budget thing, or a "throw away" project... then they may not care. That is where people use "stock music" which costs a very small fraction of what an original composition costs... and that is where a client may not care if the music they bought is just a big loop... because they are just happy to have any music at all.

...but those are the projects that nobody is proud of... nobody is going around bragging about how great those projects are... those are the low level jobs that people just do because they have to.

Of course, sometimes a piece of music which is a big loop makes it into a "quality" project... but that is only because nobody knew it was just a loop...

and many times the hacks do not know they are hacks...

There are the hacks who make hacky music because they think it is good... and there are the people who make "hacky" music who know it is "hacky" but do it because they know they can sell it and they are satisfied with working at that level of the industry.


People just have to decide what kind of musician they want to be.

It is a personal judgement call.



Personally, I would rather be a "hacky" musician and make a good living from it than have a desk job...

But I would rather be an "original" musician who is respected by his peers over being a "hacky" musician.


It is all about what you are comfortable with and what you are capable of.
 
^^^ Well said. speakin of which I'd like to find out how to get into the business of doin commercials and the like... to make a living. I might never be a pharrell or kanye, but realistically I'd rather make $30G a year doing what I like than sitting at this desk job where I am right now...
 
This is really silly... That's why the sounds are there, so you can use them. Anyone who complains about use of a preset sound is missing the whole point of production!

"Yeah go ahead and buy a triton, motif, and reason... and some VST synths... just don't use any of the sounds".
 
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[Khameleon] said:
This is really silly... That's why the sounds are there, so you can use them. Anyone who complains about use of a preset sound is missing the whole point of production!

"Yeah go ahead and buy a triton, motif, and reason... and some VST synths... just don't use any of the sounds".
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...not talking about a preset sound (like a bass sound or piano sound)-- talking abot the use of a musical phrase that you take from a sample CD (or wherever)


Those are two very different things.
 
Why chop it if it fits what the client wants?(especially for Mtv) Why do extra work when you don't have too? Seriously think about that.
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i see where these people are coming from, but at the same time it just makes me wonder about artistic validity. I suppose as someone that just produces for the experience of doing it, i think that a presumption of mine was that individuals who make music do it because our output is a part of us- and that music was just a venue for creativity.

I just don't know- I hate to come across as grizzled and grouchy, but at the same time... c'mon- lets not be breaking out our copies of "Techno eJay" :D

-Lodger
 
Lodger said:
i see where these people are coming from, but at the same time it just makes me wonder about artistic validity. I suppose as someone that just produces for the experience of doing it, i think that a presumption of mine was that individuals who make music do it because our output is a part of us- and that music was just a venue for creativity.

I just don't know- I hate to come across as grizzled and grouchy, but at the same time... c'mon- lets not be breaking out our copies of "Techno eJay" :D

-Lodger
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Like I said, there is a place for those people.

...just like there is a place for "Gucci", and there is a place for the knock-off "Gucci" sunglasses you can buy for $5 on the street corner.


A client comes to you because they want music.

They want the best music possible.

They rely on you to give them that.

They don't "want" a loop off of a sample CD... unfortunately, they don't always know it is a loop from a sample CD... and if you told them it was just a loop from a sample CD, they would tell you they don't want that...

...If they wanted that, they could have just gone with some stock music in the first place.


Why do more work if you don't have to? Because of artistic integrity and because of responsibility to the client.

(and personally, I think it is easier to play a line than it is to find one you like from a sample CD, anyway)



There are a lot of shortcuts you can take in life... but that does not mean you should take them.



You can build a house with cheaper grade materials... but should you?




Sure, you may be able to get by with shortcuts and by doing the least amount of work possible-- but you will not have the respect of your peers, and you will not build a good client base, and you will not be the guy that people go to when they want great music...

...but you may be the guy they go to when they have no budget and they need any music for as cheap as possible.



Not everyone will notice that you don't put any care into your music-- but the people who matter will know.
 
Lodger said:
i see where these people are coming from, but at the same time it just makes me wonder about artistic validity. I suppose as someone that just produces for the experience of doing it, i think that a presumption of mine was that individuals who make music do it because our output is a part of us- and that music was just a venue for creativity.

I just don't know- I hate to come across as grizzled and grouchy, but at the same time... c'mon- lets not be breaking out our copies of "Techno eJay" :D

-Lodger
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I feel you, its just how i think. When im talking to companies about Jingle music and what they want if its something i need to create i'll create it. On the other hand if its a Royalty free phrase and or loop that i have that will do the job im going for the easiest/quickest way to get it done. Put my focus into something more important.


dvyce said:
A client comes to you because they want music.

They want the best music possible.

They rely on you to give them that.

They don't "want" a loop off of a sample CD... unfortunately, they don't always know it is a loop from a sample CD... and if you told them it was just a loop from a sample CD, they would tell you they don't want that...
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That's not always the case with jingles trust me on that one. A lot of times they just want something to fill the space so it not bland.

True they can do it themselves but a lot of these people are lazy themselves and it quicker to pay someone to Que it for them/supply it. They are not musicians or producers.





dvyce said:
Why do more work if you don't have to? Because of artistic integrity and because of responsibility to the client.
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I agree there but at the same time if the client likes it the client likes it no matter how good or bad you feel it is. I personally don't make Blip and trip hop so i can really care less about how it sounds just aslong as the client is pleased with it. Thats the main goal.



dvyce said:
You can build a house with cheaper grade materials... but should you?
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not at all but again if thats what the client wants thats what the client wants.





dvyce said:
Sure, you may be able to get by with shortcuts and by doing the least amount of work possible-- but you will not have the respect of your peers, and you will not build a good client base, and you will not be the guy that people go to when they want great music...
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I personally dont think your hiphop clients would care what your doing over in the jingle world unless of course you supplied them with something you know they didn't feel. my Loop and poop work(jingles) hasn't messed up my clients/connects with any mainstream or locals that i've been dealing with over the last 3 years.

People that are important understand the markets most of them are doing it as well.

Now if you talkin about something big? Sitcom etc type show well of course you would put down your best but the rest of these commercials just want noise in the background that fit a Mood they are not looking for a top 10 hit
 
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Bottom line is that you CAN NOT underestimate the power of the customer.

It's common sense really. Because, if that Garageband loop is going to get me paid, and the client don't have any problems with it...then I don't have any problems with it! haha...

I guess as a producer our FIRST goal is creative direction.

No matter what the form it will take. Might be a track that takes 2 weeks to complete, might be something of old, might be a stock patch or loop...but if the sound is what YOU want.

Go for it.
 
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