Why do my drums go quiet when ever the bass kicks in?

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You need to start using the right terminology. That's part of the reason why yourself, and others, are confused. Everything hasn't dropped in volume. Did the meters/faders physically go down? No? Then the volume is exactly where it was. You have a perceived volume change and it's on you to fix it.

For example, in your OP you said, "So the problem is when ever the bass kicks in, it reduces the volume of the rest of the track. Then when its not playing the volume goes up." When others and myself read this routing came to mind. What you describe is something that would happen with bad buss compression or side chaining. You're going to have volume changes when instruments are in and out, that is not uncommon, but if a sound is reducing the volume of a track and things are going back up, then you have a problem.

So what is it? Are the meters/faders actually changing when the bass is being played or is this a matter of perceived loudness? If it's the meters/faders actually changing it's what I and others have outlined. If it is a matter of perceived volume why not just automate the bass so that it is consistent throughout the song?
 
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Ok I see where your coming from now and I understand how my title is miss leading.

You are right, the volumes do not visually change when the bass starts. So no nothing changes. But I noticed it by ear and that is how I thought you should be mixing, by ear.

I still feel like this has not come to a simple conclusion. After removing the limiter from the master it has made a big difference, this is why I asked should I be removing the limiter off the master on every track?

Removing the limiter has reduced the volume on the meters, but I suppose I can make up for that when mastering.
 
optimist_music said:
Ok I see where your coming from now and I understand how my title is miss leading.

You are right, the volumes do not visually change when the bass starts. So no nothing changes. But I noticed it by ear and that is how I thought you should be mixing, by ear.
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You should rely primarily on your ears but looking at the faders/meters is not a problem. Why do you think they are there to begin with?

I still feel like this has not come to a simple conclusion.
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Then it's on you to work it out.

After removing the limiter from the master it has made a big difference, this is why I asked should I be removing the limiter off the master on every track?
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Yes, IMHO and based on this thread, YOU should remove the limiter off the master. Some people, with a bit more experience, have no problem mixing with something on the master fader. I don't do it, I have no problem doing it as I understand what is happening and why, but it would be in YOUR best interest not to.

Removing the limiter has reduced the volume on the meters, but I suppose I can make up for that when mastering.
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You can make it up in several stages, not just mastering.

Listen man, my advice to you is very simple. Follow the advice bandcoach gave you on page 2. If the bass is being problematic AUTOMATE it so it is consistent throughout the song. You're making things way more complicated then they should be.
 
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Yes if you've bypassed the limiter with that preset, then the volume will drop. If you still need to maintain the same volume as before and can't boost any fader or knob to do so, switch on the fruity limiter again, open the limiter up, and push the ceiling to the maximum value (all the way to the right). Then you may adjust the volume hopefully without the limiting-threshold catching any input signal (i.e. the sound doesn't get any processing).

I was fooled the same way like you when I started making music, didn't understand what the limiter on the master was doing there.

Note that there's nothing wrong with using any light mixbus processing, some prefer it and some don't.
However, while mixing the track, it's commonly more recommended to use a light mixbus compression rather than using a limiter. Though this is something you'll have to google and analyse more on your own (it can be a quite big subject).
 
Proper gain staging, along with using a trim tool (assuming FL has one) goes a long way.

OP, stop trying to make shit loud. A lot of your mix work is in the arrangement itself and in addition to how the tracks were recorded. You don't have the basics down yet (as shown in this thread) so just take the limiter off and do what bandcoach suggested on page 2. If not you'll keeping bumping your head and running into problems.
 
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I'll say it again - loudness is a mastering phase task and that seems to be the OP's real concern here instead of making a good mix first which is about making everything quieter so that individual bits can be heard
 
Bandcoach is right. Just follow his advice. The bass, as a track, is way too loud. Start there.

As for this specific statement:

optimist_music said:
Turning the volume down made a bit of a difference but now the bass is not as present as it was.
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I'm assuming you mean after turning down the volume of the bass track. Have you now gone back and corrected this earlier attempt to fix things:

optimist_music said:
I have tried re Eq'ing the bass, that being cutting out low frequencies and raising to around 76hz. Also cut out high frequencies from 632hz. I have tried to put some compression on the bass, no difference.
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?

You've cut a lot of frequencies here that play an important role in how the listener will perceive the bass at lower volumes. Flatten out the EQ, get the bass to sit right in the mix by using the volume fader (or better yet, record it initially at the right volume) before you EQ anything. Maybe you won't have to EQ anything.

Also:
optimist_music said:
Side chaining could be a good option.

When being asked if I have the limiter on the master, I am presuming that is a good thing right?

But one thing is nothing is clipping.
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Don't bother with side chaining. Voodoo BS invented by people who hate music. Focus on balancing the mix correctly.

There's no reason to be hitting a limiter in the mix stage unless you are doing it deliberately for an effect. You don't need to concern yourself at all with the final volume when you're mixing.

Having compression on the master buss while mixing is common, and engineers have argued about whether it's a good idea or not for years, but I wouldn't bother with it yet if I were you. Balance. Learn to balance the mix first. Plug ins, effects, and heavy processing are not what the job is about. They are simply tools for specific tasks, they don't belong on everything.
 
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There are many people who mix with L2 (that's a limiter OP) across the master buss. But these people know why they're doing it and have the experience. Again, I don't recommend you doing it. In fact, I don't recommend doing anything I wouldn't do, lol. That's like a guy trying to drive a stick shift when the only thing he knows is how to ride a bike. It simply ain't gonna work in his favor.

OP, take the limiters off and revisit the mix while paying special attention to volume/volume faders and possibly automating when you need to. Priortize man. Do you want loud or a clean mix? Whatever the case may be you're still going about it the wrong way. Off with the limiter and follow the advice on page 2.
 
Yo, I'm late as hell hearing the track, my bad. Didn't realize it was posted, lol.

But yeah, bass is too loud. As others have said. My bad, earlier I posted after only reading the 1st page. It's been covered to death at this point.
 
Hi OP,
I was just reading this and thought I would put in my 2 cents, as I was just reading up on this topic just the other day.
Well, first off it sounds like they said, your tracks may just be "too loud", so definitely adjust that in the mix. But another thing right from the start, I believe you said you route all your tracks to one drum track, compress from there, and that's where the perceived volume drop is (maybe your "release" is too long, causing ALL instruments to drop volume when the kick hits and taking too long to come back). Well, thinking about it theoretically (because I'm not there), if you have all of your drums going to that compressor track, yes all the other sounds are going to dodge and get out of the way when the kick or bass come in because the track (as a whole) is reaching that threshold, and so all of your other instruments are becoming victim to what's happening with the kick/bass. I would say take your bass or kick (which one is it that causes it exactly? I don't know why I keep thinking the kick?) and separate it off to individual tracks or if you insist on all of them going to same track, then lower the volume on the kick/bass and readjust your mix.
The article I read (here actually) had to do with sidechaining the kick and bass tracks individually and make it so the bass "ducks" or dodges when the kick comes in, just briefly enough to let it through yet immediately bringing the bass back, so you feel that smooth thump and transition to a nice warm bass. Might be related. Let me know if it is and I can try to find it.
 
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I would like to start off by saying thanks a lot for everyone's input.

I have returned to this thread a few times to reread and properly take it all on board.

My original problem was fixed after I removed the limiter and adjusted levels.

This thread has changed the way I look at mixing as a whole. Concentrating on a mix that sounds well balanced instead of loud. Taking away, not adding.

My issue is and always has been, mastering. I have a lot more confident in getting a better finished sound and volume at the mixing stage, so I don't even bother mastering it. This is because everytime I try master the track it sounds worse than my mix.

This is obviously on myself to get reading and practicing. But I also think concentrating on the mix and leaving more head room is a good start :-)
 
Conflict of frequency, phase issues.
Try searching youtube for Side chaining drum and bass.
Side chain is where you have a compression on will just say the bass.
But then within that compressor you route it to only work for the Kick drum.
It's called Side Chaining.
So whenever your kick goes pass the threshold it triggers the compressor on the bass, which ducks the bass in away just for the duration of the kick signal.
Change your release and attack on the compressor on your bass track so that way it is in good timing with the duration of your kick.

Also panning your cymbals and hit hats will and just keeping the kick and snare smack center helps. Mono drums are easier to work with.
 
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Shadik said:
Conflict of frequency, phase issues.
Try searching youtube for Side chaining drum and bass.
Side chain is where you have a compression on will just say the bass.
But then within that compressor you route it to only work for the Kick drum.
It's called Side Chaining.
So whenever your kick goes pass the threshold it triggers the compressor on the bass, which ducks the bass in away just for the duration of the kick signal.
Change your release and attack on the compressor on your bass track so that way it is in good timing with the duration of your kick.

Also panning your cymbals and hit hats will and just keeping the kick and snare smack center helps. Mono drums are easier to work with.
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I am aware of side chaining and panning. Thank you for the tips.
 
Am no expert but i try and think like a live drummer your kick drum is always down the middle the snare is slightly right then you pan your Hats and rides left and right pan your synths to the right bass is down the middle which will free up space for your kick an bass to bounce of each other with some sidechain and eq.
On subs i cut everything above 100Hz then boost my kick about 120-150Hz and if that dont work i pitch up the kicks.
 
@Shadik and eddiemace85 and Squeeckey: did you listen to the provided audio (in a later post)?????? did you read the thread?????
 
/thread

late comers are not reading nor listening - therefore failing to realise that the solution has already been reached

The problem lies in the default template limiter being triggered harder and more often when there are more instruments playing.....
 
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