Vocals: Making the "T" an "Sh" Sounds Less Harsh

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edit: and* in the title, my bad.

The mix sounds good until the vocals come to a "T" sound
or a "Sh" sound, as in "Take" or "Show."

I thought it was something I could EQ,
but I can't seem to isolate that sound.
Is there something else I should have
done or am I just not EQing correctly?
If it's the EQ can someone tell me a
frequency range that I should look for
or something?

Thanks
​
 
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A de-esser should help if you use it correctly.
 
ugly plosives like "p" "t" and high frequency transients that turn into noise ("s" becomes "ffffffhhh") are a sign that something is wrong with your vocalist's skill, recording technique and/or gear.

- a vocalist should be aware of these effects and pronounce these sounds with care (= softer and shorter). even the author of the lyrics should know it and avoid excessive and repetitive "s" "t" or "p"s.

- a proper mic technique is essential to avoid these issues. simple tricks will help here: move the mic around, play with different angles and patterns.

- Use a pop-filter during recording.

- Finally, your whole recording chain is important. In most of the cases, the AD converter is the source of the problem. Nearly all standard AD converters are severely inaccurate above 5kHz and produce noise and aliasing instead of clearly defined tones. this is really bad, noise can't be EQed away: noise is a signal containing all frequencies at once - so, it's "everywhere" as soon it's been created.

- Also, the mic preamp has a dramatic effect on these issues.


that's how you should make your T's and S's less harsh. a de-esser on the other hand will just dull-out your sound in a highly unnatural way and will fvck up the transients even more. the result will most probably be less intelligible than the "harsh" original.

fix problems at their source!

using a de-esser to fix a problem during mixing is like fighting toothache with pain killers instead of a dentist visit.
 
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moses said:
ugly plosives like "p" "t" and high frequency transients that turn into noise ("s" becomes "ffffffhhh") are a sign that something is wrong with your vocalist's skill, recording technique and/or gear.

- a vocalist should be aware of these effects and pronounce these sounds with care (= softer and shorter). even the author of the lyrics should know it and avoid excessive and repetitive "s" "t" or "p"s.

- a proper mic technique is essential to avoid these issues. simple tricks will help here: move the mic around, play with different angles and patterns.

- Use a pop-filter during recording.

- Finally, your whole recording chain is important. In most of the cases, the AD converter is the source of the problem. Nearly all standard AD converters are severely inaccurate above 5kHz and produce noise and aliasing instead of clearly defined tones. this is really bad, noise can't be EQed away: noise is a signal containing all frequencies at once - so, it's "everywhere" as soon it's been created.

- Also, the mic preamp has a dramatic effect on these issues.


that's how you should make your T's and S's less harsh. a de-esser on the other hand will just dull-out your sound in a highly unnatural way and will fvck up the transients even more. the result will most probably be less intelligible than the "harsh" original.

fix problems at their source!

using a de-esser to fix a problem during mixing is like fighting toothache with pain killers instead of a dentist visit.
Click to expand...
I agree..watch how you record vocals going in.
 
use a de-esser and use preset with most appeal then tweak the knobs to clean it as prefferred
 
Moses- I Thought that sibilance was most effectively combated by microphone choice.
 
moses said:
ugly plosives like "p" "t" and high frequency transients that turn into noise ("s" becomes "ffffffhhh") are a sign that something is wrong with your vocalist's skill, recording technique and/or gear.

- a vocalist should be aware of these effects and pronounce these sounds with care (= softer and shorter). even the author of the lyrics should know it and avoid excessive and repetitive "s" "t" or "p"s.

- a proper mic technique is essential to avoid these issues. simple tricks will help here: move the mic around, play with different angles and patterns.

- Use a pop-filter during recording.

- Finally, your whole recording chain is important. In most of the cases, the AD converter is the source of the problem. Nearly all standard AD converters are severely inaccurate above 5kHz and produce noise and aliasing instead of clearly defined tones. this is really bad, noise can't be EQed away: noise is a signal containing all frequencies at once - so, it's "everywhere" as soon it's been created.

- Also, the mic preamp has a dramatic effect on these issues.


that's how you should make your T's and S's less harsh. a de-esser on the other hand will just dull-out your sound in a highly unnatural way and will fvck up the transients even more. the result will most probably be less intelligible than the "harsh" original.

fix problems at their source!

using a de-esser to fix a problem during mixing is like fighting toothache with pain killers instead of a dentist visit.
Click to expand...

This is very helpful thank you
 
I think dessing should be one of the last choices. Vocalist coaching to get them to tame the s's and t's. Then mic technique, like moses said, try moving the mike of axis a little pointing down a bit, moving the mic down toward the chin/neck, even try strapping a pencil down the center. Sounds cray, but it works sometimes. Switching out mics and pre's. Then if all else fails go to your desser.
 
While I'm all for matching the right mic to the right singer, and singers who are good at minimizing sibilance, sometimes it's inevitable... especially if the song calls for crushing the vocal under compression while keeping a present vocal timbre.

If it's just a few places, then level automation can deal with it very effectively. If it's all over the place, then use a de-esser. Contrary to what others might think, I think you can get a great sound using a de-esser, if you set it up right (a lot of people don't). As well, sometimes a song just really calls for the sound of a de-esser.
 
redbearddread said:
Moses- I Thought that sibilance was most effectively combated by microphone choice.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, of course. LOL I forgot the mic ;)


@chris carter: yup, screwed live-recordings really don't give you a choice, hard to repeat them in a studio. ;) nevertheless, I think it is really important to get the best out from every step - so that the de-esser is just an exception.


BTW, an other, slightly less effective method of de-essing is to use a 6dB/oct low-pass filter around 2kHz - 4kHz and re-create the high-end via a specialized high frequency saturation ("exciter"). again, not that effective but is just the right thing in some cases as it does not introduce the side-effects of classic de-essers (unnatural high-freq compression effects). instead, the process is fully static which makes it very predictable.
 
moses said:
@chris carter: yup, screwed live-recordings really don't give you a choice, hard to repeat them in a studio. ;) nevertheless, I think it is really important to get the best out from every step - so that the de-esser is just an exception.
Click to expand...

Not talking about screwed up live-recordings. Just speaking from experience here. If you haven't had any luck with de-essers, then I can understand not wanting to use them.
 
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