Very Low Volume Exporting From Reason! Not Caused By PC Settings

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Moke and Eed

Moke and Eed

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Every time I export a song from Reason , even if it's EQd, compressor, and/or even maximized, it still comes out at a really low db. After I get the .wav file and bring it into Adobe Audition the file is way below 0 db. If I normalize the file it raises the volume to a normal level, but sometimes throws the balance of the mix out of whack or introduces digital artifacting to the song :( I've tried raising the volume in reason but usually all that gets me is some crackling sounds so I'm pretty stumped. It's not my settings becuse I can clearly see how low the volume is in the wavefrom (I've brought in actual songs and they all go up near 0 db).

Some of my transients (usually kick or snare) pop out and prevent normalizing so I just add a little compression to lower the dynamics, but it still is frustrating to have to go in a modify the song after adjusting everything how I want it in Reason. It's almost like it doesn't matter what it sounds like playing back from Reason cause it'll sound different afterwards. Sometimes there's crackling, sometimes the levels are off, sometimes the bass stops bumping or bumps too hard. I've got pretty good EQ on everything, I cut the lows on everything but the bass, add like 3db boosts to the sweet spot of my instruments, and compress really dynamic tracks, but it still comes out low after the export. Any suggestions?

This really bothering me because it's almost unpredictable. Should I export STEM files? (AKA solo each track separately in Reason 5) I can rewire into protools but I'd rather do my mixing and composing in Reason and plus it takes forever to export just to find out if the song sucks or not. Aside from the monitors I usually test with my car stereo and sub, iPhone, studio headphones, and regular headphones (most common ways anyone would listen to the music).
waveform.webp
Here's a screenshot that shows what I'm talking about. that's what it looks like after me cranking up the master fader and maximizer 'til right before it gets distorted, and that's pretty loud compared to most of my songs. I know there are some spikes sticking out from the bass and snare (even though they're compressed...), but it still is only at -3db at the transients.
 
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Not sure what to tell ya since that only should happen when the faders in any daw is set too low.
The faders of each individual channel.
The faders.
 
You're using reason 5? Do you also use record?
Can you upload a song as reason file?
 
KonKossKang said:
Not sure what to tell ya since that only should happen when the faders in any daw is set too low.
The faders of each individual channel.
The faders.
Click to expand...
Hm, maybe I should just raise everything, but have them the same levels relative to each other (raise the gain stage), I don't remember if I've tried that, but hopefully I don't get any distortion
 
B Side Producer said:
You're using reason 5? Do you also use record?
Can you upload a song as reason file?
Click to expand...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Mc7eq8g-UoSk1UZFJIZVBBb0E That should be a link to an RNS file on my Google Drive called Nemesis that you can download. It's a decent song, not much to it though, but has is cranked up really loud and maximized and only gets to -3db in the waveform. not bad, but having to export and normalize and compressor and normalize is really annoying if I'm already compressing and maximizing it within Reason. I do not use Record, just Reason 5 straight to a WAV and into Audition
 
I would have sent you a new song I've been working on, but I don't have the files with me right now or on my Google Drive unfortunately
 
Would it be easier to just say fuck Reasona and rewire through Pro Tools? I like a lot of the mixing tools they have in that program (visual compressor, 5 band EQ, easy HPF and LPF), but I really don't get a much better sound out of all that work
 
If you don't know how to use all of reason's tools, how would you do better in other daws exactly?
You actually need to know what you're doing in any daw, and what everything is to begin with.

My Rewire combination of choice is Reason/FL Studio or Reason/Studio One :]
Don't blame tools for what you don't know all too well also.
Manual time fella.
 
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KonKossKang said:
If you don't know how to use all of reason's tools, how would you do better in other daws exactly?
You actually need to know what you're doing in any daw, and what everything is to begin with.

My Rewire combination of choice is Reason/FL Studio or Reason/Studio One :]
Don't blame tools for what you don't know all too well also.
Manual time fella.
Click to expand...

Well I have an older version of Reason that doesn't have the same functionality as the newer versions with the extra effects and such. Pro Tools is more meant for mixing and mastering it seems like so I thought that would make it easier for me to understand the whole process by using that. I'm still learning obviously, but I think I understand things pretty well for a hobby musician. It doesn't help that there's no "right" way to mix a song, so it's hard to find the right info.
 
You just don't know how reason works in it's entirety : /
Nobody knows everything, but honestly it's not the company's fault for that.

Protools, reason, caustic etc can access the same plugins via rewire or midi ox/vst hosts since the beginning :/
Started at 5 myself. There's external vst hosts that are specifically made for that if you are just not into all of reason's modules or combinators.
 
There's tons of interesting stuff about Reason. IMO, Reason has one of the best video support online.
There's a lot there. In the quick mix fix, music making month, 52 reason record tips, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PropellerheadSW/playlists

This one was inspiring and helpful as well



Also, Ryan Harlin has his own channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzHoN20JD9nrC7e9uWECozw

And you also have tons of other stuff on youtube like that dude from boyinaban and whatnot

You gotta find a way to educate yourself with production and engineering. There's tons of free stuff online, there's also courses to be found, etc.
 
KonKossKang said:
You just don't know how reason works in it's entirety : /
Nobody knows everything, but honestly it's not the company's fault for that.

Protools, reason, caustic etc can access the same plugins via rewire or midi ox/vst hosts since the beginning :/
Started at 5 myself. There's external vst hosts that are specifically made for that if you are just not into all of reason's modules or combinators.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but I'll say that most of the programs do pretty much the same thing. For instance I understand photoshop decently (not completely) and I can still use any other photo software with relative ease 'cause they have the same functionality. IDK if it's so much Reason as it is mixing theory that I'm having trouble with. I still can't get my songs to export past -3db, but I've found some ways around via post production haha

Not sure if this is a good practice, but if I use Audition and normalize to -0.1% and then use a tube compressor with a -2db threshhold, 3:1 ratio, a fast attack, and a slow release it cuts off just to very tips of my peaks on the drums, then repeat that once or twice I'm getting a pretty clean result. Then I just convert the WAV to MP3 using Any Audio Converter.

Check out the result on my latest song from Friday: https://soundcloud.com/moke_and_eed/later
 
B Side Producer said:
There's tons of interesting stuff about Reason. IMO, Reason has one of the best video support online.
There's a lot there. In the quick mix fix, music making month, 52 reason record tips, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PropellerheadSW/playlists

This one was inspiring and helpful as well



Also, Ryan Harlin has his own channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzHoN20JD9nrC7e9uWECozw

And you also have tons of other stuff on youtube like that dude from boyinaban and whatnot

You gotta find a way to educate yourself with production and engineering. There's tons of free stuff online, there's also courses to be found, etc.
Click to expand...


Thanks for sharing the info, I'll definitely check that stuff out! The only thing that annoys me about audio engineering guys (generalizing here) is that they don't really know much about writing good music, just and ungodly amount about using the programs. While I do enjoy educating myself, I prefer to fixate on a goal and figure out what I need to learn in order to get what I want accomplished.

Reason is one of those programs that I don't see many people using, but I really like the simplicity of the interface and how it replicates actual audio hardware. There's loads of info to learn about this stuff so I gotta switch between composing interesting music and learning how to get it to sound how I want, otherwise I this could be me https://mouthsforwar.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/skeleton-mix.jpg
 
Moke and Eed said:
The only thing that annoys me about audio engineering guys (generalizing here) is that they don't really know much about writing good music, just and ungodly amount about using the programs. While I do enjoy educating myself, I prefer to fixate on a goal and figure out what I need to learn in order to get what I want accomplished.

Reason is one of those programs that I don't see many people using, but I really like the simplicity of the interface and how it replicates actual audio hardware. There's loads of info to learn about this stuff so I gotta switch between composing interesting music and learning how to get it to sound how I want, otherwise I this could be me https://mouthsforwar.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/skeleton-mix.jpg
Click to expand...

About your first bit, I don't feel like that at all. Check out who Garry Bromham is for instance. First of all, being a producer, a future producer, a music making hobbyist or a bedroom producer can enhold so many different things. There's producers making the music themselves, there's producers who tell others what and how to make and tell an engineer how to engineer it, etc. I consider myself a musician for instance. I use a DAW, midi controllers, analogue and digital gear and real instruments to make music. I do this for myself because I enjoy it. Would I want to make money doing it? Yeah , sure, but I dread the risk of it getting a chore that I have to do for money instead of something I do as a brilliant pass time that I enjoy so much. I have too much other stuff that have my prior focus as a profession. Rather keep making music for the fun of it.
Second of all, writing good music is something different then mixing and mastering. But to produce a proper song you need both. A lot of ppl choose to let their tracks be mastered by pros. Others just use the tons of ways to get somewhat of a mastered mix going with the tools the DAW comes with itself and external programs/vsts.

About Reason. It is down to preference. There's a ton of ppl using Reason. There's also tons of ppl using FL, Logic, Ableton, etc. Reason gives me the feeling of being a musician vs feeling like a computer engineer. All other DAWs give me the latter feeling. I have never thought of Reason having an air of simplicity over it. Maybe if you come from hardware. It is very user friendly, that it is. It's GUI is very self evident. But, in the beginning, I didn't know much of Reason and just tweaked knobs and faders. Anything I made then was just happy accidents. I then put A LOT of time into learning Reason, learning the lingo of music production and engineering, learning the theory behind it of for instance doubling your drums (duplicate and wire to new bus in reason), stereo placement, how compressors work and what type of compressors there exist, how spreading sound and echo and whatnot contribute to the stereo image, how to do somewhat of a master in reason, how the master compressor works on reason, how you can tweak each channel, how mic preamps work , how mics work, how you need to cut frequencies on different sounds/tracks/instruments to get them to sit right, how scales work, how chord progressions work, how penta scales work, learn how to play a riff in all scales, how setting up your monitor speakers work, and then all the stuff in Reason. How you work a combinator, where you can find the effects, how the instruments within Reason work, modular synthesis in general and in reason, bass preamps, guitar preamps, etc.
There's so much theory out there. Having a grasp of this theory and knowing how to put those into practice is gonna be something that will reflect in the quality of music that you bring to the table.
 
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So basically instead of just keeping the faders at their default position you just lower them.
Dude it's as simple as not messing with faders ffs lmfao STOP OVERTHINKING SHIT OMG.

Save that for cv routing.
 
KonKossKang said:
So basically instead of just keeping the faders at their default position you just lower them.
Dude it's as simple as not messing with faders ffs lmfao STOP OVERTHINKING SHIT OMG.

Save that for cv routing.
Click to expand...
No need to be snarky, I'd rather just listen to the other guys that aren't condescending...
 
B Side Producer said:
About your first bit, I don't feel like that at all. Check out who Garry Bromham is for instance. First of all, being a producer, a future producer, a music making hobbyist or a bedroom producer can enhold so many different things. There's producers making the music themselves, there's producers who tell others what and how to make and tell an engineer how to engineer it, etc. I consider myself a musician for instance. I use a DAW, midi controllers, analogue and digital gear and real instruments to make music. I do this for myself because I enjoy it. Would I want to make money doing it? Yeah , sure, but I dread the risk of it getting a chore that I have to do for money instead of something I do as a brilliant pass time that I enjoy so much. I have too much other stuff that have my prior focus as a profession. Rather keep making music for the fun of it.
Second of all, writing good music is something different then mixing and mastering. But to produce a proper song you need both. A lot of ppl choose to let their tracks be mastered by pros. Others just use the tons of ways to get somewhat of a mastered mix going with the tools the DAW comes with itself and external programs/vsts.

About Reason. It is down to preference. There's a ton of ppl using Reason. There's also tons of ppl using FL, Logic, Ableton, etc. Reason gives me the feeling of being a musician vs feeling like a computer engineer. All other DAWs give me the latter feeling. I have never thought of Reason having an air of simplicity over it. Maybe if you come from hardware. It is very user friendly, that it is. It's GUI is very self evident. But, in the beginning, I didn't know much of Reason and just tweaked knobs and faders. Anything I made then was just happy accidents. I then put A LOT of time into learning Reason, learning the lingo of music production and engineering, learning the theory behind it of for instance doubling your drums (duplicate and wire to new bus in reason), stereo placement, how compressors work and what type of compressors there exist, how spreading sound and echo and whatnot contribute to the stereo image, how to do somewhat of a master in reason, how the master compressor works on reason, how you can tweak each channel, how mic preamps work , how mics work, how you need to cut frequencies on different sounds/tracks/instruments to get them to sit right, how scales work, how chord progressions work, how penta scales work, learn how to play a riff in all scales, how setting up your monitor speakers work, and then all the stuff in Reason. How you work a combinator, where you can find the effects, how the instruments within Reason work, modular synthesis in general and in reason, bass preamps, guitar preamps, etc.
There's so much theory out there. Having a grasp of this theory and knowing how to put those into practice is gonna be something that will reflect in the quality of music that you bring to the table.
Click to expand...

Yeah I suppose it really depends on what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm also a hobbyist musician with much of my knowledge residing in musical scales, intervals, timing (guitarist for 10 years). While I understand the importance of mixing and mastering, especially in more commercial situations, I don't think that should be the primary focus of creating a song, at least that's not my primary focus.

I think without a good composition of notes, instruments, and drum patterns the song won't sound good with any amount of effects and equalization. There are many artists I've heard that, as they get more popular, focus more on the audio quality. When this happens I feel like it loses something special that made me like the artist in the first place. I don't listen to anything that I'd consider popular because it just sounds generic and clean to me. Pretty Lights and Tycho are the most popular artist I listen to because they still capture the essence of the emotional power of music. I mean, music used to sound good before all this compressing and eq and stereo imaging became the norm, so I don't see it as a complete necessity. They had to rely on actually musicality.

When it comes to getting the bass to hit properly on a stereo system though it definitely requires some theoretical knowledge like sound frequencies, eq, compression (maybe sidechain compression too) to make sure you aren't getting any distortion or destructive interference.
 
I'm gonna be totally honest guys, I don't know a single person that actually listens to music with nice headphones so I don't see the point is killing yourself over a perfect sound. They either listen through their phone speaker or in the car, which I can totally relate to. I used to be big into listening to music with nice noise canceling headphones when I was young (before going to bed mostly), but now I really only enjoy listening to music when I'm doing something like snowboarding, hiking, kayaking, driving, biking, doing homework, or sitting at work. I know it's a subjective stance, but if the music isn't being actively listened to and examined then the important part is the overall feeling the song gives off and the sequence of the notes. What I can understand to be important is making sure that the sound is pretty much universal over a wide variety of devices, kinda like doing web development and checking different browsers.
 
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I see a lot more ppl wearing very decent headphones tbh. Listening to mp3s through phones is more the bottleneck atm I'd imagine.
Also car stereos are getting better. Also, poor mixes sound even worse in car stereos. There's a well known car stereo test for music producers :D
There's producers around that don't fiddle with mixing and mastering too much and leave that to the engineers. They themselves focus on making the melodies and such.
 
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