Desire Inspires
New member
J. Troup won.
Smarten up, guys.
Truth is, nobody gives a shit about your rap beats....
- Thread starter j.troup
- Start date
J. Troup won.
Smarten up, guys.
j.troup
New member
I'm just passing along some game, that's all. Hopefully some pieces of what I said will help someone out, and they'll be able to take their music to the next level.
That's all.
If it doesn't apply, then pay it no mind. But someone just got helped. And that's what I do it for. Just paying it forward.
ProducerJC
IndieHost
The last time I checked, country music was best played and performed by bands; in which, producers play a whole different role for such projects. Pop music pays well for top forty and touring acts. On the other hand, so does hip hop in when certain work ethics are applied in a way that generates results. I suspect that artists get free beats because producers give them free beats. Ending that cycle starts producers eliminating the free beat option when working with artists.
ATTENTION ALL PRODUCERS:
Stop looking for someone else to put us on and build business by learning to sell. Selling is a skill, acquired through training and experience, that ultimately leads to making money online and offline, and in any genre of music. Obviously, certain producers are able to achieve extremely high levels of success in their prefered genre of music. Otherwise, we would have popularly or financially success hip hop producers to inspire us. We can all name a success producer who've used their talents to make money. The things that prevent us from reaching our goals are the same things we choose to accept as reasons for not selling. The process begins with meeting prospects and people who like our beats. From there, listeners are funneled through a process that determines potential customers from fans and so on. It requires time, energy and money to make money in any business; especially music, everyone knows this.
Get started by putting an end to excuses and laziness. Some of the most talented people in this world are also the most lazy and stubborn. I prefer to work with active musicians who perform and continue be inspirations for those they entertain.
j.troup
New member
Who said that? When it's on a record, the average listener can't tell whether it's a VSTi or whether it's played by a band. There are plenty of aspiring country artists. I have them in my studio all the time. I sell them songs (complete with tracks made with these VSTi's) all the time. The producer can play the role of composer, or the producer can play the role of studio coach. Depends on the situation.
Just cuz you have (or are in) a band, doesn't mean that band can actually compose hit music.
So you're talking about changing the market? Yeah, like that's gonna happen. BEATS are free, just like MUSIC is free. That's just what it is. You're not going to change the market by yourself. That's not going to happen, no matter what "good intentions" you have. All you can do is work within your customer's preferences. Or either, change your customers.
ATTENTION ALL PRODUCERS
The beat game is what it is. You ain't gon change it. The customers are who they are. You ain't gon change them.
You know what they say, if you can't change the people around you, then change the people around you.
You can't MAKE people buy your beats. You can't MAKE hip hop start selling more, no matter how good your beats are.
But the one thing you can do, is go to where the money is.
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zoo
New member
I suppose it really depends why you make music.
You'll make hip-hop sell more, or change your customers...or change hip-hop...by making hip-hop because, well, YOU LOVE HIP HOP. Customers, as well as listeners, can tell if something is forced or not.
I'm not trying to get at you troup, it's a good post.
If you're happy making music you don't really care about because it makes your wallet fatter than power to you - but I would rather make what I love because I love it and not because there might be some money for it in me somewhere.
**I'm asking the below questions out of curiosity not as an attack**
So you gave up making beats because you weren't making enough money at it? Why did you start? To make money? It sounds to me like you actually watered down your hobby and made it less enjoyable for yourself just to make some $$$. How many years were you making beats before you decided you wanted to make more commercially viable shit? Are you sure it wasn't down to craft/skill/marketing/networking/patience/personality?
For me, music is the kind of art that should not be motivated by money because it's the kind of art I want to be remembered for. It's not a job for me. It's more than that.
So before you go taking what troup said as gospel, consider this:
If you are dedicated, smart, business-minded and make the genre of music you truly love...you will see rewards. But it takes a package for someone to be truly successful. Not just good hip-hop beats.
NOTE: I'm not taking away from your post bro and it's more than helpful.
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He's right though why not diversify your mode of business my brother makes beats but even he's trying to diversify and not limit himself to only making instrumentals for rappers to get on dude does shit I wouldn't even know how to do far as making beats for singers even a rock band I don't know how he did that but he did it. But you would think in this day and age it'd be common sense for producers not to just limit themselves to one specific genre, but I guess it's not.
j.troup
New member
It's all good homie. It's all about the conversation. The conversation makes everybody think. And thinking is good for everyone.
You don't know me round these parts as well as some others, so I'll consider that in my response.
It's not about forcing something. It's not about making music that you don't care about. It's about diversifying to increase your income.
Music and the Business of Music has been a lifelong passion for me. I've loved every type of music ever since I can remember, and I've known that the Business of Music is what I wanted to do with my life since ~1990 (when I heard Cube's Amerikkka's Most Wanted album for the first time).
While I love music with every fiber of my being, don't get me wrong...my music pursuits are NOT a hobby. The goal has always been to make a living from music.
I listen to music because I love it. I make music to make money.
I started music because, again, it's been a life long passion of mine. Music has never been a hobby. I never had a choice in the matter. Music chose me, at a very, very early age.
I never watered down anything. I love every single type of music, equally. My first music love was classical. Then R&B. Then hip hop came along (i'm 36). Then country, then rock, then pop, metal, and everything in between. I sincerely love it all. You should see my music collection. Over 3000's physical CD's, and over 65,000 digital tracks.
I turned away from the majors because I got sick of playing the game, and dealing with the bullshit. The money was fine. It's just not what I wanted to deal with.
My skill is fine. My networking has always been fine. Patience? UOENO. lol. Personality? If only you knew. lol
It's not about art vs money. It's purely about the business side. If you love hip hop, then stay hip hop, by all means. But understand, that the market is so much bigger than hip hop. There are little white girls in gymnastics class who wanna be the next Demi Lovato that need tracks and songs, just as much as the rapper on the block that wants to be the next Lil Wayne does.
That's all I'm saying.
I've met 65 year old retired ladies who are doing children's music, and they are out here hustling the same way that beat makers are.
All i'm saying is that there's more than just rap out there.
And if nothing else, my post was meant to help people with tools to make music theory simple, and help them take their music to the next level...in whatever genre.
zoo
New member
Yeah I HAD no idea of your background but that's why I was asking the questions, I guess. It just came across a little bit more "get this money" than "branch out, diversify, expand your portfolio" to me but I clearly got the wrong impression. Apologies.
Again, kudos for the post regarding the apps and VSTs and shit. It's great to see someone who knows their shit and has been around the block sharing some of their experiences/arsenal of software an' shit. They have been few and far between since I've joined the forum!
I just got the wrong impression of what you were trying to say, I guess!
---------- Post added at 04:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 AM ----------
Yeah it's a messed up industry, I agree. I'm not really sure if that is the fault of the industry though. Before I started to really get into music (before I was 16 let's say). I didn't even think about the instrumental, how it was made, who made it or whatever..I:
1) Presumed it was made by the dude rapping on it
2) Didn't care to research whether my presumption was correct or not
I genuinely think that culture is changing in hip-hop. Because of the rise of "EDM" (as you guys call it on the other side of the Atlantic), people are more and more in-tune with production and instrumentals than ever before.
You look at shit like Swedish House Mafia...the guy singing is the FEATURING artist on THEIR track.
Do you think the fact that the rapper saying **** all is getting all the money is all the industry's fault? Surely to an extent, but could that producer be marketing himself better? Could he be picking up his game so that MORE people know that he made that beat? I would imagine so.
You look at people like Timbaland, Just Blaze...and more recently Mike Will. Ten years a go nobody would care who produced Miley Cyrus' new hit single. They'd just care for Miley. Now Mike Will is making huge noise. Surely this isn't the industry's fault? Surely this is Mike Will marketing himself in a BETTER way as well? Just a thought.
Majestic Mastermind
Eat, Sleep, Breathe MUSIC
I know this dude did not just tell us to start making country and pop.....
fataltone
Holy Lamb Media & Ent.
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
Another thing to look into is Poppier hip hop. Alot of kids with rich parents want to be the next Ke$ha, Dev, or Fergie.
I'll never understand the fundamentals of country, because I just don't like it. I've been doing pop records on the side since day 1. I haven't noticed a boost in the demand, but this last week, everyone has been hittin' me for beats like Big Sean's "control". I think it has to do with who your clients are and what they rely on you to provide.
I'll never understand the fundamentals of country, because I just don't like it. I've been doing pop records on the side since day 1. I haven't noticed a boost in the demand, but this last week, everyone has been hittin' me for beats like Big Sean's "control". I think it has to do with who your clients are and what they rely on you to provide.
j.troup
New member
And that's exactly it. Not even rich parents, but parents that pay out money for their kids dreams.
The same parents that pay for gymnastics lessons, and ballet lessons, and piano lessons and tennis lessons, and golf lessons can pay for studio time and songs. Cuz depending on how good of a producer/developer you are, that is basically "artist development lessons".
Country ain't shit but R&B with a guitar and a twang. Especially this modern country. It's straight pop. Take a Fergie song, put Carrie Underwood on it, change a synth to a Telecaster guitar (sliding up and down between notes) and boom, you got a country song. It's all truly the same shit.
My clients were dope boy rappers until the block got hot and they all had to get jobs. But the block don't get hot out in the suburbs. Ballet and Tennis lessons keep getting paid for. And I'm now one of those people getting paid to try to make their kid the next <insert hot pop singer here>.
I ain't trying to hit it big...that's the artists job. Im trying to keep the money flowing. Because with every song I sell, that's a week in the Caribbean for me.
I'm bout that Vacation Life.
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup
Moderator
^^^I gotta check some current country. Only thing close to country I can tolerate is Taylor Swift, and I only like her pop records. Jewel's cool, but I'd think that's more "folk". I even hate those Nelly songs when he fuses country. But I'm all about the Selena's, Demi's, and Jason Derulo's. So I may be able to find my niche with a country sound.
And you're right, "rich" was not the proper title, Just parents who will invest money in their kid's hobbies.
And you're right, "rich" was not the proper title, Just parents who will invest money in their kid's hobbies.
Xabiton
Cupcake God
He's right. In music that is where the money is. Think about how much everyone has said Britney sucks her entire career. Shes still going strong 15 years later .Remember how everyone loved Lex Lugar? Where is he at 3 years later? Where is Soulja Boy 5 years later?
hollandturbine
New member
I was talking about the exact same kind of thing a while back in relation to branding, where I compared the difference between the welfare dependent handout mentality of the majority of cats who make hip hop to the independence of producers who have a brand in the public eye such as most EDM producers as well as cats like Lil Jon, dudes who put out shit under their name rather than under the name of the artists they work with, for example a Massive Attack track featuring Sinead O'Connor is sold as a Massive Attack track not as a Sinead O'Connor track, Mirwais maintains his brand when Madonna is featured on one of his tracks but he can also produce a track for Madonna to sell under her brand........Most hip hop cat's just sit around waiting for Daddy Warbucks to roll up and give them a temporary place in the liner notes that don't even exist anymore.....waiting for the recording contract fairy to put a deal under their pillow.......and a lot of cat's business mode is just on some underpants gnomes type shit.
As an EDM producer your brand has far more weight than some hip hop producer who has relegated themselves to an expendable support roll.....like you can use your stronger brand to secure hip hop placements over the cat's with no name and no game.