Track slightly bassy (rattles in car) can I low-cut AFTER mastering? or where?

[Robot Sunsets]

Its a pop sounding song with a consistent bassy accompaniment. Not really a kick drum. Just bass line.

I eq the bass on the accompaniment track and bumped the original bass up pretty high, but it has a limiter and its compressed. The fader is pretty low. So theres a lot of power there.

Then I mixed it and bounced the whole song project to a wav and opened it in Ozone 6. Put the tight midrange preset and changed the eq around and balanced it more and added some stereo imaging and exciteness.

It sounds great on the KRK monitors, it sounds ok on laptop speakers (decently bassy), it sounds excellent on the surround stereo system in the theater, and good on headphones.

But then i played it in the car and dammit, there was some rattle on my stock speakers. The song sounds clean but just that rattle is there.

Ok so now to fix it, can I just put that mastered wav in logic, and put a simple low cut on the eq when I go to make an MP3? Or do I have to go back to the original track? Or maybe go back to Ozone? In Ozone I feel like I don't understand which eq to mess with. There are 3, one is pre eq, one is dynamic, and one is post eq, and they don't really act like normal eq in Logic. They are weird and Im scared of messing up the clean dynamic it has now.

More importantly which hz do I cut at? 50? or even more?

I want to maintain the bassy feel but not sure what hz to cut at to get rid of rattle but keep it sounding the same. And if theres a difference at cutting more on the original accompaniment track or if it doesnt matter. I do have a low cut "S shape" on the same EQ where the bass is turned up, but I guess its not cut enough of the low end where its creating that bass boost. I want to maintain the same overall feel I have now minus the rattle.

Whats the simplest way to do that?

 

[Milo Burke]

The curse of mixing (or mastering) on a system with limited bass extension. It's annoying and inconvenient, but it's a lot harder than most realize to really nail accurate bass in a monitoring system. Some never get there.


Do professional tracks have bass rattle on the same car stereo? If yes, don't fret, it's just the car. If not, you have a little work to do.

I wouldn't consider further processing something that is already a "finished master". If the "finished master" isn't finished, go back to it and tweak until it is.


It's hard to be sure, but it sounds to me like you simply have too much bass that is too low. Maybe all the other stereos you tested it on don't go deep enough to expose the issue, or they do go deep but just have quiet bass?

My AKG k702 headphones have very deep bass, but it just comes out a little quiet. If I mix a track to sound good on them, I end up with way too much 50 Hz playing it on other stereos. So I keep my eye on a spectrum analyzer and aim for a mix that sounds a little light at 50 Hz then check on other systems to see if it comes out. (Fortunately I don't mix on them anymore. Though they're great for sound design and editing.)


I wouldn't worry about messing up Ozone's mastering. You can always return to the preset, or reload the previous version of the session. See if you can adjust the EQ going into Ozone, either in Ozone's EQ or by putting an EQ before it on the master bus. You could try rolling it off, or you could just use a shelf to lower the bass a little. Maybe both. But I can't tell you frequencies without hearing it.

You're doing the right thing by checking it on multiple systems. Keep doing that, but checking a spectrum analyzer could save you a little time, helping you get things closer before doing all the checks.

 

[Robot Sunsets]

The curse of mixing (or mastering) on a system with limited bass extension. It's annoying and inconvenient, but it's a lot harder than most realize to really nail accurate bass in a monitoring system. Some never get there.


Do professional tracks have bass rattle on the same car stereo? If yes, don't fret, it's just the car. If not, you have a little work to do.

I wouldn't consider further processing something that is already a "finished master". If the "finished master" isn't finished, go back to it and tweak until it is.


It's hard to be sure, but it sounds to me like you simply have too much bass that is too low. Maybe all the other stereos you tested it on don't go deep enough to expose the issue, or they do go deep but just have quiet bass?

My AKG k702 headphones have very deep bass, but it just comes out a little quiet. If I mix a track to sound good on them, I end up with way too much 50 Hz playing it on other stereos. So I keep my eye on a spectrum analyzer and aim for a mix that sounds a little light at 50 Hz then check on other systems to see if it comes out. (Fortunately I don't mix on them anymore. Though they're great for sound design and editing.)


I wouldn't worry about messing up Ozone's mastering. You can always return to the preset, or reload the previous version of the session. See if you can adjust the EQ going into Ozone, either in Ozone's EQ or by putting an EQ before it on the master bus. You could try rolling it off, or you could just use a shelf to lower the bass a little. Maybe both. But I can't tell you frequencies without hearing it.

You're doing the right thing by checking it on multiple systems. Keep doing that, but checking a spectrum analyzer could save you a little time, helping you get things closer before doing all the checks.

Thanks for the response.

To answer the first part, no other bassy songs don't rattle in the car. Its just this bounce of the song that rattles. I further checked it on yet another set of older Audio Technicas I had lying around and they too detected the rattle bass.

I went back to the bassy accompaniment track and saw how much I turned it up on the EQ. I guess this is the culprit.

So what would you or anyone recommend to operate on this? I need to use surgical precision to remove the rattle but also keep it as bassy as possible. What would we need to do?

I have a duplicate of this same track but it is low cut/high pass to emphasize the other part of the sample. This is literally just there for a rolling bass sound from a stock Roland E 80 that my "client" wanted to build a whole song around.

Look at where the S shape crosses, its right at the 50. What if I just nudge that to the right? would that fix everything? Or would the fix involve turning down that huge bassy bubble on top?

The song is not complex at all. Its just 2 accompaniment tracks. a lead melody layered 6 times. and a smiling harp sounding guitar with ping pong delays and then triple layer vocals.

That bass is the only low end that exists in the song.

 

[Milo Burke]

It's hard to say without hearing it, my friend.

But I bet reducing that EQ bump would go a long way. Even at 70 Hz, it looks like it's up 20 dB - that's intense!

What happens if you remove the EQ bump completely? How does it sound?


When I'm dealing with something like a bass synth, something that I'm not entirely sure how my system is playing it, I try not to boost at all, but just to cut frequencies I don't like until the sound is shaped how I like.

Then ... test on one of the other systems. If it rattles, find that frequency, cut some more, check again. I know it's a pain when your studio monitors don't show the problem. But that's all you can do.



Remember, with a two instrument song, vocals and bass, it's unlikely that they are competing for sonic space. You can keep the bass full-spectrum without getting in the way of vocals too much. It can still have powerful lows, but in the context of mids and highs from the same instrument too. Like Belinda Underwood's styling of There Will Never Be Another You: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sztV7aCvRZw

See how the bass is full spectrum, not lows only? But it works because it's a low instrument and simple song.

 

[Robot Sunsets]

It's hard to say without hearing it, my friend.

But I bet reducing that EQ bump would go a long way. Even at 70 Hz, it looks like it's up 20 dB - that's intense!

What happens if you remove the EQ bump completely? How does it sound?


When I'm dealing with something like a bass synth, something that I'm not entirely sure how my system is playing it, I try not to boost at all, but just to cut frequencies I don't like until the sound is shaped how I like.

Then ... test on one of the other systems. If it rattles, find that frequency, cut some more, check again. I know it's a pain when your studio monitors don't show the problem. But that's all you can do.



Remember, with a two instrument song, vocals and bass, it's unlikely that they are competing for sonic space. You can keep the bass full-spectrum without getting in the way of vocals too much. It can still have powerful lows, but in the context of mids and highs from the same instrument too. Like Belinda Underwood's styling of There Will Never Be Another You: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sztV7aCvRZw

See how the bass is full spectrum, not lows only? But it works because it's a low instrument and simple song.

Well its like from the Roland when you hold down a chord on the left of the keyboard and it automatically plays a little mini song for you based on the chords.

So if I got rid of the bass boost it just plain wouldnt be bassy.

Maybe I should turn down the EQ and turn up the compression?

The bass itself sounds good in the car (and everywhere) its not overpowering the mix. The whole thing is mixed low and the accompaniment itself isn't really heard much beyond a vague chord progression that it serves. The guitars, melody and vocals are by far the most audible thing. And then the bass just making it epic with the chord progression.

Wouldn't nudging the S shape on the EQ help?

What if I just go plug the aux chord into the laptop in my car lol...

I can also PM you for an email and email you the wav if you got nothing better to do so I can solve this lil puzzle. Im learning lol

 

[Milo Burke]

I'm happy to help, but I couldn't take a look at the song in my DAW until next week. I've got an open house on Sunday, and I have cleaning to do before then. =]

 

[krushing]

That's an insane bass boost by any definition. I think you'll need to find some alternative ways to thicken up the bass, because that kind of bump will rattle speakers no matter what you do.

 

[Milo Burke]

Is it possible that you are engineering your track to have the bass sound you want on speakers that weren't designed to reproduce those frequencies? Like how I can mix a song to sound good on my k702 headphones by adding way too much 50 Hz?

Maybe the reason you feel you need that bass isn't because the song wouldn't have it otherwise, but because you want your speakers without subs to sound like speakers with subs. The problem wasn't in the song (before you EQ'd the bass), but the combination of your monitoring system's response and your expectations?

You could get a subwoofer. You could EQ your master bus on all tracks with a bass boost for mixing, then remove it for the bounce (I don't recommend this). You could mix on headphones with deeper bass response than your speakers. You could train yourself to aim for how much bass is appropriate on your system, not how much you want to hear, trusting that it will sound how you want to hear on a system with good bass.

What do you think?

 

[Robot Sunsets]

That's an insane bass boost by any definition. I think you'll need to find some alternative ways to thicken up the bass, because that kind of bump will rattle speakers no matter what you do.

Yeah I also just noticed I have this second part of the line section and it look like the sideways football goal post instead of the circle with the squiggly lines.

I don't know why I did it like that but that why I turned it all up so much instead of a usual little bump. I also noticed that the line doesnt go directly through 50 its a tiny bit to the left of it. I should start over and "re-carve" it out right?

The fader is pretty low so even though theres a ton of bass eq on there it still sounds like its "behind" the other instruments.

Is it possible that you are engineering your track to have the bass sound you want on speakers that weren't designed to reproduce those frequencies? Like how I can mix a song to sound good on my k702 headphones by adding way too much 50 Hz?

Maybe the reason you feel you need that bass isn't because the song wouldn't have it otherwise, but because you want your speakers without subs to sound like speakers with subs. The problem wasn't in the song (before you EQ'd the bass), but the combination of your monitoring system's response and your expectations?

You could get a subwoofer. You could EQ your master bus on all tracks with a bass boost for mixing, then remove it for the bounce (I don't recommend this). You could mix on headphones with deeper bass response than your speakers. You could train yourself to aim for how much bass is appropriate on your system, not how much you want to hear, trusting that it will sound how you want to hear on a system with good bass.

What do you think?

Well I think, despite that awkward EQ job, it sounds full and it has the right amount of presence. Both on a regular sound system and on monitors and on laptop.

Same on ear buds.

To put it simply, it just knocks.

Its a simple country folk type song but its interesting because its way more bassy than a normal song of that type.

 

[DarkRed]

Yeah I also just noticed I have this second part of the line section and it look like the sideways football goal post instead of the circle with the squiggly lines.

I don't know why I did it like that but that why I turned it all up so much instead of a usual little bump. I also noticed that the line doesnt go directly through 50 its a tiny bit to the left of it. I should start over and "re-carve" it out right?

The fader is pretty low so even though theres a ton of bass eq on there it still sounds like its "behind" the other instruments.

Well I think, despite that awkward EQ job, it sounds full and it has the right amount of presence. Both on a regular sound system and on monitors and on laptop.

Same on ear buds.

To put it simply, it just knocks.

Its a simple country folk type song but its interesting because its way more bassy than a normal song of that type.

The mix is too dense, that's why it rattles.

 

[Robot Sunsets]

So I fixed it.

Pretty much went in and set the eq to default and did it again but properly this time.

Bass still sounds large but its a lot more tight.

Sounds perfect in the car now.