Time matching your samples with your drums

E

ExpLo

New member
I have no problem with getting the rhythmn of the drums right when I compose my own melody. But when I sample something, I could never figure out how fast/slow the drums should be to match the sample, or how fast/slow the sample should be to match my drums. I tried to do it by ear, but it's not really working for me right now. Is there any strategy to get better at this?
 
im still a noob but this is what i do;

i look for the first bass drum of the bar and then find then last snare and let it ride a little bit untill right before the next bass drum.

another thing i do is just make it loop one bar and f*ck with the tempo untill it sounds good looped over its self.

also sometimes if that gets messed up, ill just take random cuts from a song and line them up not necessarially to ant line but just to anywhere it sounds great..
 
... let the sample loop...

if there are drums in the sample, play over top of those first...then add an extra kick/snare or two to make it interesting and more bouncy...

If not, just experiment...if nothing is fitting..try dropping in snares or hats just on beat... almost as if you're clapping to the beat... That should help you throw some kicks in...

Best thing I can say is...keep experimenting though...
 
loopster said:
what are u makin beats on
Click to expand...
FisherPriceRecordplayer1.jpg


8b_1_b.JPG
 
Learn to Mix on some decks - that should help you out with timing ;)
 
That was the funniest thing I have read here. Those pics are priceless!!!

Now to try and answer the question. Here is what I learned long ago.

With the sample try going from KICK, to KICK for the loop, or Snare to Snare for the Loop. This will help you find the tempo by EAR better. Then go on and layer that with your own Drum Pattern. Once that sounds good to you, then try different parts of that sample over the pattern you made on your own, and in most cases it will fit.

Think of Samples as a DJ does when hes blending one song to the next. Some times its not about exact beat matches but more what it sounds like on your drums. If it goes over smooth you can go from a fast song to a slower one with a perfect blend.

JGonz
 
Last edited:
Do you guys know WHY you're having trouble matching a perfect loop to a sequence you've created with the same BPM?? Theoretically, it should work, and sometimes it does right away, but more often than not, it's not synced exactly even though it should. Why?

We've all been in front of an audio editor with a loop on our screens. We sit there and make the loop perfect by nudging around the Loop Start marker, and the Loop End marker, until it's looping perfectly to our ears. You guys with me?

o.k.

but isn't it true that if you were to nudge the Loop Start forward a certain amount of time, and then nudge the Loop End marker forward the SAME amount of time - it would also loop perfectly even though our Start and End points are different? In fact, as long as we keep the same amount of time between the Start and End markers, we can move around that 'set' of markers in relation to the audio, and it will seem to loop perfectly. The listener is not aware that the loop may be cut at some weird point as long as it loops properly.

Problem is...

Cubase is very aware that you've cut at a weird spot.

See you've set your sequencing program to be the same BPM as your loop. In theory, if you have 8th note hi-hats in Cubase, when you import your loop in, you want the hi-hats to match all along the loop. (In fact, you want to add all kinds of instrumentation) ..but when you cut the loop in the wrong spot, what you get is...the first hi-hats are in time but get more out of time as it continues. But this isn't happening because your loop and sequence are at different BPM's, they're not - it's because your Loop Start is at an un-even time in relation to the 2nd & 3rd Hi-Hat.

For simplicity sake, lets say we know the 2nd hi-hat (or 8th note) is at sample# 200, and the 3rd hi-hat is at sample#300. In order to chop this sample to where it will loop AND sequence correctly when you add it to other compositions, you MUST chop the Start at sample #100.

Sounds complicated huh? "So Jizz...how the f*ck do I do all that??"

It's simple, don't cut or chop your loop in an audio program. Leave a little room at the beginning and at the end of your loop, and chop it there. It won't loop yet, but you're going to load that into your sampler/sample-player to trim it down perfectly.

This here is why MPC guys have been kicking software guys asses around, because software people always fall for that 'zero-crossing' nonsense...

o.k....when you load the untrimmed loop into your Reason NN19, you are now able to play a key on the keyboard to trigger the sample. Cool? cool.

Now if you look on NN19 (or whatever sampler you're using) you'll notice a knob that lets you adjust the Sample Start point.

Now here the part that takes a good musical ear...keep triggering the sample while adjusting the Sample Start at the same time. Just keep tapping, and twisting the sample start knob until you start to hear the kick drum at the beginning of your loop. That's where you stop, right? Wrong. Keep nudging the Sample Start until your trigger of the sample is actually in time. You should be able to feel whether your intitial 'hit' or 'trigger' is on tempo with the rest of the hi-hats. If it feels like you trigger the kick and theres a speeding up when the sample plays...adjust the Sample Start forward a bit (very fine adjustments). If it feel like your trigger is "rushing" the beat, it means you've gone too far into the sample, and you need to adjust the Sample Start back towards the beginning.

If you've done this right, you will be able to trigger your loop from your keyboard, and do lil' DJ-type effects by triggering the loop multiple times, then letting it play. Feel me?

This is difficult to explain on the net. But I hope I've got you guys to see there is like...a scientific, logical reason why some loops are chopped don't sequence well, and it's easily fixable.

Time-stretching is NOT the answer. And old-school drummers were NOT out of time, that's most laughable. These are rock solid grooves we're sampling, but cutting them in the wrong spot will make them appear out of time to our sequencers.

The above information took me years to figure out and understand. Mostly because I'm computer-based. MPC guys and hardware sampler guys already do this as they sample anything. They would never think of letting the computer tell them where the best "start" point is..lol. Anyway, enjoy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
man, I've been having the same problem. I'm trying to loop the song in Reason and for some....uhhh...reason I can not get to loop correctly. I've been trying for two days now and its frustrating. Maybe if I calm down and mess with the tempo, I'll get it, but I find it difficult to get it exactly the way you want it...
 
Are you using a drum machine...mpc, mv8000, etc, or software. All I do is chop the sample up and play it at the tempo I want. I do it alot with bass loops and change the chords up....
 
jizzer said:
Do you guys know WHY you're having trouble matching a perfect loop to a sequence you've created with the same BPM?? Theoretically, it should work, and sometimes it does right away, but more often than not, it's not synced exactly even though it should. Why?

We've all been in front of an audio editor with a loop on our screens. We sit there and make the loop perfect by nudging around the Loop Start marker, and the Loop End marker, until it's looping perfectly to our ears. You guys with me?

o.k.

but isn't it true that if you were to nudge the Loop Start forward a certain amount of time, and then nudge the Loop End marker forward the SAME amount of time - it would also loop perfectly even though our Start and End points are different? In fact, as long as we keep the same amount of time between the Start and End markers, we can move around that 'set' of markers in relation to the audio, and it will seem to loop perfectly. The listener is not aware that the loop may be cut at some weird point as long as it loops properly.

Problem is...

Cubase is very aware that you've cut at a weird spot.

See you've set your sequencing program to be the same BPM as your loop. In theory, if you have 8th note hi-hats in Cubase, when you import your loop in, you want the hi-hats to match all along the loop. (In fact, you want to add all kinds of instrumentation) ..but when you cut the loop in the wrong spot, what you get is...the first hi-hats are in time but get more out of time as it continues. But this isn't happening because your loop and sequence are at different BPM's, they're not - it's because your Loop Start is at an un-even time in relation to the 2nd & 3rd Hi-Hat.

For simplicity sake, lets say we know the 2nd hi-hat (or 8th note) is at sample# 200, and the 3rd hi-hat is at sample#300. In order to chop this sample to where it will loop AND sequence correctly when you add it to other compositions, you MUST chop the Start at sample #100.

Sounds complicated huh? "So Jizz...how the f*ck do I do all that??"

It's simple, don't cut or chop your loop in an audio program. Leave a little room at the beginning and at the end of your loop, and chop it there. It won't loop yet, but you're going to load that into your sampler/sample-player to trim it down perfectly.

This here is why MPC guys have been kicking software guys asses around, because software people always fall for that 'zero-crossing' nonsense...

o.k....when you load the untrimmed loop into your Reason NN19, you are now able to play a key on the keyboard to trigger the sample. Cool? cool.

Now if you look on NN19 (or whatever sampler you're using) you'll notice a knob that lets you adjust the Sample Start point.

Now here the part that takes a good musical ear...keep triggering the sample while adjusting the Sample Start at the same time. Just keep tapping, and twisting the sample start knob until you start to hear the kick drum at the beginning of your loop. That's where you stop, right? Wrong. Keep nudging the Sample Start until your trigger of the sample is actually in time. You should be able to feel whether your intitial 'hit' or 'trigger' is on tempo with the rest of the hi-hats. If it feels like you trigger the kick and theres a speeding up when the sample plays...adjust the Sample Start forward a bit (very fine adjustments). If it feel like your trigger is "rushing" the beat, it means you've gone too far into the sample, and you need to adjust the Sample Start back towards the beginning.

If you've done this right, you will be able to trigger your loop from your keyboard, and do lil' DJ-type effects by triggering the loop multiple times, then letting it play. Feel me?

This is difficult to explain on the net. But I hope I've got you guys to see there is like...a scientific, logical reason why some loops are chopped don't sequence well, and it's easily fixable.

Time-stretching is NOT the answer. And old-school drummers were NOT out of time, that's most laughable. These are rock solid grooves we're sampling, but cutting them in the wrong spot will make them appear out of time to our sequencers.

The above information took me years to figure out and understand. Mostly because I'm computer-based. MPC guys and hardware sampler guys already do this as they sample anything. They would never think of letting the computer tell them where the best "start" point is..lol. Anyway, enjoy.
Click to expand...


Actuall that is the dope way to do it, if you know what your doing. I been thinking about doing that for a while,b ut its kinda like the same thing in Battery 2, thanks for giving me that insight, 1.
 
no problem, thank god someone read it and got something from it...that sh*t took me like an hour to type lol..I don't know what got into me that night.
 
jizzer said:
no problem, thank god someone read it and got something from it...that sh*t took me like an hour to type lol..I don't know what got into me that night.
Click to expand...


LMAO, cool, that was alot. but that is almost the same way in the MPC how to do it manually, kinda of like Pete Rock does it.

But I understand what your saying, stop leting the computer do everything for you. That's why Recycle sometimes is a disadvantage with it's sensitivity chopper.
 
I have this same problem from time to time. I was watching Boola make a beat and he was talking about how sometimes the sample and the drums dont match so you gotta chop it up and I thought about it and I watched the sample loop in Acid and I realized the snares weren't dropping in the same place in the sample, which is like the .2 or .4 mark or something, I cant think of it right now, but your ear and eyes should catch it. Anyways, what I do next is, if its off, I zoom into the snare and split at cursor and move the wave over until the snare is at the right spot, then loop the sounds before that if need be so there isnt any empty space. This might sound funny, but, yea...you can check out my myspace page and listen to the beat called...Imma Make It. The intro with Billy Paul talking wasnt falling right with the snares so I had to chop it and realign it, and if you listen close you can hear it where it sounds like its skipping...I think the 19 second mark has a good example. I cant think of any other beats that I had to do that with, Im thinking School of Hard Knocks but I cant remember. Anyways, yea, hope I helped. BTW I use Fruity and Acid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top