The Producer and Rapper Relationship

[Y-ROC]

What the hell do you mean point and click? Bill Gates is one of the richest of men on this earth, and got money by pointing and clicking.

I have no hardware (except MiDi controller) so I have to point and click, your standards are high. If a producer can output great music just by sleeping, then go with him. Don't not pick a producer because he doesn't have a lot of hardware, that is ignorant.

i dont think thats what he's talkin about. i think he means the people that just give beats over email and myspace, and not build a chemistry in a studio or room. its all internet. they just point and click what beat to send away, and then hear it later on.

 

[bluchippa5]

man... I've been tryna build a relationship with rappers in my area... but it gets so hard to find someone I can musically deal wit..

niggas is dumb..

"Our Father, Who Art In Heaven, Hollowed Be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom Come, THESE NIGGAZ DUMB!!!" LOL!!!

That sh!t was classic...1,000,000 E-Dollars to the person that can name the origin of that line...That sh!t was so left field, it was classic...I couldn't resist passin' on that one....matter of fact....i'ma take it one step further...thats the new sig....its time anyway...

 

[ThanatoidSitcom]

In response to the original poster, the "one producer album" isn't neccessarily a thing of the past. This decade has seen some excellent hip-hop records that have been the result of a collaboration between an MC and one producer.

For example...

Madvillain (Madlib and MF DOOM)
Soul Position (RJD2 and Blueprint)
DM and Jemini "Ghetto Pop Life"
Blu and Exile "Below The Heavens"
Cannibal Ox "The Cold Vein"

Of course, these are all indie records. It does seem like the major labels have pretty much abandoned this approach...

 

[Trenchant]

i agree with the thread starter, producer-mc albums need to make a comeback.

Thanatoid, your an ESG fan?? They're max funky, aren't they.

 

[Dot_Robinson]

In response to the original poster, the "one producer album" isn't neccessarily a thing of the past. This decade has seen some excellent hip-hop records that have been the result of a collaboration between an MC and one producer.

For example...

Madvillain (Madlib and MF DOOM)
Soul Position (RJD2 and Blueprint)
DM and Jemini "Ghetto Pop Life"
Blu and Exile "Below The Heavens"
Cannibal Ox "The Cold Vein"

Of course, these are all indie records. It does seem like the major labels have pretty much abandoned this approach...

Not to down any of these acts (I've never heard of them), but I agree with Eminem when he said "I thought the goal was to crossover and become famous". I think these artist may have a great independant success, but im talking about success on a commercial level. The reason I stated Future, Sex, Love Sounds in my example, is because this album has sold millions. Commercial albums shape the future of the genre. Hands down! Look at the affect "Laffy Taffy" had on last years sound scan. You countless FL driven beats. "Pop Lock N Drop It", "Crank Dat (any comic book hero imaginable)", ect. When Jay made it popular to work with different producers (in my opinion he did), that trickled down threw the industry, and made label heads stop and think..."Maybe an artist can attack different markets by working with different producers".

 

[AkillestheMusicMan]

Not to down any of these acts (I've never heard of them), but I agree with Eminem when he said "I thought the goal was to crossover and become famous". I think these artist may have a great independant success, but im talking about success on a commercial level. The reason I stated Future, Sex, Love Sounds in my example, is because this album has sold millions. Commercial albums shape the future of the genre. Hands down! Look at the affect "Laffy Taffy" had on last years sound scan. You countless FL driven beats. "Pop Lock N Drop It", "Crank Dat (any comic book hero imaginable)", ect. When Jay made it popular to work with different producers (in my opinion he did), that trickled down threw the industry, and made label heads stop and think..."Maybe an artist can attack different markets by working with different producers".

Music falls under the entertainment industry in which in which music is a sub-industry. Call it commercially popular performing arts. People cannot understand and accept that music is a business. Everyone has there motives for doing music and to each there own but in business there is a supply and demand. Take Timbo or The Runners for example. If an artist or label wants a sound that generates income they will pay producers alot of money to continue that sound or style. That motif organ made The Runners alot of money. Those triton presets made Pharrell and Chad rich. Those modernbeat drums (My Love) made Timbo 21 million dollars last year. This my friend is a reality that most people dont understand, its a business, its entertainment. These are some of the factors in music people dont discuss. Music changes, sometimes for the better or for the worst but if you gonna be apart of the music business, music industry, you gonna have to accept the change in order to move forward, flow with music not against it. You can't get mad at soulja boy or D4L because people like there music. You can't get mad at a 12 year old for wanting learn how to crank it. Now if you gonna be apart of music do what you want. Make music for you or your family to enjoy or as a past time but when you enter the music business thats a whole different realm. Instead of being hostile and critical perhaps you should calm down and relax. Some of the most-talented, most succesful producers dont know a lick of theory but they know pitch, they know rhythm. They know what sounds good. Have patience, be humble and maybe someone who uses FL and doesnt know theory could be the answer to your problems.

 

[ThanatoidSitcom]

Not to down any of these acts (I've never heard of them), but I agree with Eminem when he said "I thought the goal was to crossover and become famous". I think these artist may have a great independant success, but im talking about success on a commercial level.

Actually, DangerMouse (the producer behind DM and Jemini's "Ghetto Pop Life") went on to produce the Gnarls Barkley record, which went platinum and won a couple of Grammys. He also did the most recent Gorillaz record, which also went multi-platinum.

So, yeah... I'd say that he has "crossed over" and experienced success on a "commercial level"...

 

[Dot_Robinson]

Music falls under the entertainment industry in which in which music is a sub-industry. Call it commercially popular performing arts. People cannot understand and accept that music is a business. Everyone has there motives for doing music and to each there own but in business there is a supply and demand. Take Timbo or The Runners for example. If an artist or label wants a sound that generates income they will pay producers alot of money to continue that sound or style. That motif organ made The Runners alot of money. Those triton presets made Pharrell and Chad rich. Those modernbeat drums (My Love) made Timbo 21 million dollars last year. This my friend is a reality that most people dont understand, its a business, its entertainment. These are some of the factors in music people dont discuss. Music changes, sometimes for the better or for the worst but if you gonna be apart of the music business, music industry, you gonna have to accept the change in order to move forward, flow with music not against it. You can't get mad at soulja boy or D4L because people like there music. You can't get mad at a 12 year old for wanting learn how to crank it. Now if you gonna be apart of music do what you want. Make music for you or your family to enjoy or as a past time but when you enter the music business thats a whole different realm. Instead of being hostile and critical perhaps you should calm down and relax. Some of the most-talented, most succesful producers dont know a lick of theory but they know pitch, they know rhythm. They know what sounds good. Have patience, be humble and maybe someone who uses FL and doesnt know theory could be the answer to your problems.

I don't think you read any of my post correctly. Im not downing any FL user, or such acts as Soulja Boy or D4L. Im simply saying the simplicity level that is required to push a single, in this day and age, can (and does) take away from the will to learn more. I'am an artist. If I choose to work with a producer (and this is all completely my opinion and choice), I require some insurance. I need a producer or production team that brings something to the table, besides a hot beat. That's just me. I can understand why Timbo and Dre have outrageous prices for production. Look at what they bring to the table. Has anyone heard songs from the new Duran Duran record? Amazing! Not only did Timb orchestrate the creation of the beat, but he makes decisions the futher make a record a hit. He could only obtain this information and knowledge threw years of experience...but not only that...the elders that proceeded him (Teddy Reily) passed down this information to him. My biggest concern is, the next generation of hip-hop fans will be fooled into buying garbage records that have no substance, because the foundation that is being laid NOW, isn't properly laid. Im 20 years old. As I was growing up, I looked up to Pac, Big, Jay, Em, Nas, ect. They laid a proper foundation for me to understand that, not only do you have to have these hit records, but you also have to have substance on the album to keep people coming back.

 

[AkillestheMusicMan]

I don't think you read any of my post correctly. Im not downing any FL user, or such acts as Soulja Boy or D4L. Im simply saying the simplicity level that is required to push a single, in this day and age, can (and does) take away from the will to learn more. I'am an artist. If I choose to work with a producer (and this is all completely my opinion and choice), I require some insurance. I need a producer or production team that brings something to the table, besides a hot beat. That's just me. I can understand why Timbo and Dre have outrageous prices for production. Look at what they bring to the table. Has anyone heard songs from the new Duran Duran record? Amazing! Not only did Timb orchestrate the creation of the beat, but he makes decisions the futher make a record a hit. He could only obtain this information and knowledge threw years of experience...but not only that...the elders that proceeded him (Teddy Reily) passed down this information to him. My biggest concern is, the next generation of hip-hop fans will be fooled into buying garbage records that have no substance, because the foundation that is being laid NOW, isn't properly laid. Im 20 years old. As I was growing up, I looked up to Pac, Big, Jay, Em, Nas, ect. They laid a proper foundation for me to understand that, not only do you have to have these hit records, but you also have to have substance on the album to keep people coming back.

I typed a whole bunch of stuff but my browser tweaked and i lost all of it so I'll just say this. I feel u man, its just something to come to grips with. I've learned to just roll with the punches. At the end of the day tho, keep doin you. Stay true to yourself. Keep grindin man

 

[veck]

If a starving artist approached you, wanting to create an album from scratch, would you do it? Would you charge him/her, or would you try to cultivate the artist into one of your own? Im really interested in some opinions.

thats all i wanna do really, not so interested in just making single tracks and sellin em off...i want to work with people..create an actual album

 

[Dot_Robinson]

^^^
I love it. The hunger that most people lack. I was seriously thinking of quitting, when it came to production, but the passion I have for creation has me hyped again.

 

[MeetroMusic]

Damn...hearing how bad you guys wanna' work with a artist that is serious about what they do makes me appreciate my situation A Lot more. I've been working with the same artist since 2004 and we've made 3 albums on our own and sold them ourselves...I didn't produce every track on each album but I help with all decisions like which beats would work, laying vocals, arranging the tracklist and I think this has helped me become a better producer. I've learned how to create hot beats for actual songs, not just a hot beat with 25 different instruments in it. And having a artist sit there with u when u create a beat helps A Lot becuase artists and producers hear beats totally different. I hope you guys find someone like I have to help you create...

 

[Dot_Robinson]

^^^
Usually the producer hears the groove. The artist hears the flow. I get the best of both worlds, but two heads are always better than one.

 

[SmokinAces]

I think there are various things that could be a factor in the lack of complete producer artists collabs. The fact that a lot of young producers, after helping develop an artist, get left behind once the artists makes it big. Also, in my case, I been working with a guy for two years but, as a new producer, my sound is changing and not in a direction that correlates with his. But the main reason is the ego of the game these days. Cats feel as though they're the **** (producers and artists alike) and that someone is below them. I'm not saying this is you but it can play a factor. I also believe that you can't learn being a producer by yourself. It takes an artist to teach you about the process of working with artists. I think that just as a producer can take an raw rapper or singer and transform them into a true artist, an artist can take a kid that is only good at making beats and transform him into a true producer. Look at JD. The artist he worked with also helped him to become a more well rounded, competent and, therefore, more lucrative producer. Look at Premo. He takes plenty of advice from artists that I'm sure he has retained and has made him better at what he does. Try helping those young boys out by trying to guide them with what exactly you are looking for and by offering construtive critisism. You may be surprised how far that will help them, therefore also helping you.

 

[Dot_Robinson]

I think there are various things that could be a factor in the lack of complete producer artists collabs. The fact that a lot of young producers, after helping develop an artist, get left behind once the artists makes it big. Also, in my case, I been working with a guy for two years but, as a new producer, my sound is changing and not in a direction that correlates with his. But the main reason is the ego of the game these days. Cats feel as though they're the **** (producers and artists alike) and that someone is below them. I'm not saying this is you but it can play a factor. I also believe that you can't learn being a producer by yourself. It takes an artist to teach you about the process of working with artists. I think that just as a producer can take an raw rapper or singer and transform them into a true artist, an artist can take a kid that is only good at making beats and transform him into a true producer. Look at JD. The artist he worked with also helped him to become a more well rounded, competent and, therefore, more lucrative producer. Look at Premo. He takes plenty of advice from artists that I'm sure he has retained and has made him better at what he does. Try helping those young boys out by trying to guide them with what exactly you are looking for and by offering construtive critisism. You may be surprised how far that will help them, therefore also helping you.

100% in agreeance. I myself have seen producers get left behind, so I can really understand the paranoia. Something I've learned very very recently. **** FRIENDS!!! There are no hommies in this buisness. Keep everything in writing to cover your ass in the long run. Even if you are doing an album for free, to split the profits down the middle 50/50. Get that **** in writing.

 

[as20gp]

i've ben left behind before.. its no fun...

..

 

[DJ R. Sun 84]

Some producers don't want to help MCs cause they think the rapper will be successful and they (the producer) won't see a payday. I understand where they are coming from but if your afraid of something like this that can be a problem, thats why I started making my own beats. The MC/Producer relationship is not what it used to be. These so called producers don't want to work with local cats because they sell one or 3 beats and gone Hollywood (so business is now put ahead of friendship and they run the risk of getting robbed on some street tip). The guy using FL to make his music will charge an arm and a leg some fingers, toes and 1 pint of blood for a beat (a kidney and the other arm if you want exclusive rights) but the other guy who also uses FL but plays keyboards, guitar and percussion only charges $60? When the possibilty of money comes into play both parties will try to get all they can, its called the root of evil for a reason. I see it as being that there is no faith between people when it comes to business, unless its on paper. The MC and Producer that grew up together seems to be one of the few types of these relationships that work. I've come across producers that said I was nice with the lyrics but when I asked for a hook up on a beat and gave my word that I wouldn't do anything shady I got turned down. I can't blame the guy, this is what he does for a living. I wonder if theres going to come a time when their sitting there with 1,000,000 beats and can't move them. DJ Paul and Juicy J seem to have perfected the MC and Producer relationship with the artists they work with as previously mentioned. Kanye and Common too. The producer has to be able to switch up his or her style too. If an MC can flip their flow in a thousand ways then the Producer should be able to accomodate this. That could be a reason why an MC might want to go to 30 different Producers for 1 album. There are also MCs who have a lot of beats stashed that they got from their main producer and are doing nothing with them. I gave a beat to my boy and he did nothing with it. I see this all the time and I can't blame the Producer for the way they might react sometimes. Both sides need to sit down and map out the business side of things otherwise the B.S. will bury them. I wonder what would happen if Marley Marl told Kane he was nice but didn't want to get ripped off by some MC

 

[unkodrum]

music is no different than any other hustle. when folks find a money maker if they good at it or not they will try they hand at it. some get sucess.my point is if you are passionate about a thing what difference should it make that others are out there pimpin? treat yours right. respect yours. those that have that same respect will gravitate towards your artistic integrity. peace.

 

[SmokinAces]

Some producers don't want to help MCs cause they think the rapper will be successful and they (the producer) won't see a payday. I understand where they are coming from but if your afraid of something like this that can be a problem, thats why I started making my own beats. The MC/Producer relationship is not what it used to be. These so called producers don't want to work with local cats because they sell one or 3 beats and gone Hollywood (so business is now put ahead of friendship and they run the risk of getting robbed on some street tip). The guy using FL to make his music will charge an arm and a leg some fingers, toes and 1 pint of blood for a beat (a kidney and the other arm if you want exclusive rights) but the other guy who also uses FL but plays keyboards, guitar and percussion only charges $60? When the possibilty of money comes into play both parties will try to get all they can, its called the root of evil for a reason. I see it as being that there is no faith between people when it comes to business, unless its on paper. The MC and Producer that grew up together sems to be one of the few types of these relationships that work. I've come across producers that said I was nice with the lyrics but when I asked for a hook up on a beat and gave my word that I wouldn't do anything shady I got turned down. I can't blame the guy, this is what he does for a living. I wonder if theres going to come a time when their sitting there with 1,000,000 beats and can't move them. DJ Paul and Juicy J seem to have perfected the MC and Producer relationship with the artists they work with as previously mentioned. Kanye and Common too. The producer has to be able to switch up his or her style too. If an MC can flip their flow in a thousand ways then the Producer should be able to accomodate this. That could be a reason why an MC might want to go to 30 different Producers for 1 album. There are also MCs who have a lot of beats stashed that they got from their main producer and are doing nothing with them. I gave a beat to my boy and he did nothing with it. I see this all the time and I can't blame the Producer for the way they might react sometimes. Both sides need to sit down and map out the business side of things otherwise the B.S. will bury them. I wonder what would happen if Marley Marl told Kane he was nice but didn't want to get ripped off by some MC

What you said is the exact reason why I don't do free beats. A lot of dude's want Filet Mignon quality for Top Ramen money. Unless you are offering something that can benefit the both of us, why should I give you a discount? If we are collaborating, cool. But if you want a beat and think 10 dollars is fair, you're a fool.

 

[bobsmitt]

Damn...hearing how bad you guys wanna' work with a artist that is serious about what they do makes me appreciate my situation A Lot more. I've been working with the same artist since 2004 and we've made 3 albums on our own and sold them ourselves...I didn't produce every track on each album but I help with all decisions like which beats would work, laying vocals, arranging the tracklist and I think this has helped me become a better producer. I've learned how to create hot beats for actual songs, not just a hot beat with 25 different instruments in it. And having a artist sit there with u when u create a beat helps A Lot becuase artists and producers hear beats totally different. I hope you guys find someone like I have to help you create...

damn you're lucky. i'm jealous, wish i could work with a dude like that. you doing this over the net or in person?

i agree w/ a lot of what is being said. i think the trust between the rapper and producer is a big issue. i've always been looking for someone that i can do the duo thing or something. it would be nicer if it could be in person, but over the net could work too.

i just really want to be able to do more than just give some dudes a couple beats.