The Producer and Rapper Relationship

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Dot_Robinson

Dot_Robinson

Psalms 37:4
Threw out the history of hip-hop, the relationship between producer and rapper, has always been a slippery slope. In an era of ringtone rappers, digital producers, Myspace and YouTube, can a musical bond really manifest into conceptual music? Or is the tradition of the, one producer album dead?

In my opinion, hip-hop artist are lacking originality. Not only in the creative process of lyrical conception, but in the selection of beats that drive vocals just as much as the delivery. If you look back at the late 80's, early 90's, the one producer method drove hip-hop to it's golden era status. You had Dr.Dre and Snoop Dogg, RZA and The Wu-Tang Clan, Eric B and Rakim, Rick Rubin and LL Cool J, ect. These producers gave life to the artist by creating a sonic back drop. In most cases, this usually resulted in major financial success.

In early 2007, Timbaland and Justin Timberlake crafted, in my opinion, one of the best pop albums of the last decade. I became seriously motivated in finding the right producer to paint the right sonic background for myself. In my search, I came across alot of so-calleds, instead of bonifide young talent. Alot of point and click producers, as opposed to the hungry youth I thought I find out in LA. So now im faced with a tough question. Is the music industry so destroyed, that a producer and a rapper, can't craft original LPs together?

If a starving artist approached you, wanting to create an album from scratch, would you do it? Would you charge him/her, or would you try to cultivate the artist into one of your own? Im really interested in some opinions.
 
I agree. It's pretty clear that when a "new" rapper comes out with a good album, there's usually a good executive producer behind it..after this, rapper thinks he can do this **** too, and is given more creative control.. FAIL.
50 cent is a prime example, alltho GRODT wasn't 100% Dre -produced, the selection was made very well.. now, all the shyt that he has put out after that comes out not so solidly. Same for Eminem, Snoop (alltho Blue Carpet treatment has some of that vibe agian).. If the "moving force", whether it's Dre, JB, or whoever gives some of the control to the artist, **** will not be as good.

Actually, i would have a CD full of my AAA+ class beats to a "starving artist" which i know has skills plus hunger in him, but i know there would be a lot of (aka too much) fightin over creative control and such plus there's the long distance between us so i'll just watch him do what he does.

I agree. It's pretty clear that when a "new" rapper comes out with a good album, there's usually a good executive producer behind it..after this, rapper thinks he can do this **** too, and is given more creative control.. FAIL.
50 cent is a prime example, alltho GRODT wasn't 100% Dre -produced, the selection was made very well.. now, all the shyt that he has put out after that comes out not so solidly. Same for Eminem, Snoop (alltho Blue Carpet treatment has some of that vibe agian).. If the "moving force", whether it's Dre, JB, or whoever gives some of the control to the artist, **** will not be as good.

Actually, i would have a CD full of beats to a "starving artist" which i know has skills plus hunger in him, but i know there would be a lot of (aka too much) fightin over creative control and such plus there's the long distance between us so i'll just watch him do what he does.
 
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666 posts...you betta hurry up and post something else...this is an unlucky thread...man people don't understand how chemistry can bring out better material...its KEY..CHEMISTRY IS VERY IMPORTANT...this is when the BEST music is made...you can make good music w/o it...but you can't make GREAT music w/o it..
 
Polow and Rich Boy have that connection, but it didn't translate into music well enough on his 1st LP, maybe on second then.. or, if there's more power with RB, it will just lack the solid effort. Also, i think Polow was too hasty tryin to sell all those beats and his best one's weren't on Rich Boy's album.
 
Polow sold them beats years in advance before Rich boy project was even started.
 
ChaseNCashe said:
Polow sold them beats years in advance before Rich boy project was even started.
word? he should have kept few of em "in the storage", cos i wasn't really feeling the ones on rich boys lp...
 
1005 said:
word? he should have kept few of em "in the storage", cos i wasn't really feeling the ones on rich boys lp...

You weren't?

Come on man, the joint with David Banner was ill. The other joint with John Legend, Throw Some D's, Let's Get This Paper...damn man.

Plus the track that Mr DJ did and Get to Poppin' which I think was Brian Kidd, was dope as hell.

I really liked Rich Boy's album to be honest.
 
What the hell do you mean point and click? Bill Gates is one of the richest of men on this earth, and got money by pointing and clicking.

I have no hardware (except MiDi controller) so I have to point and click, your standards are high. If a producer can output great music just by sleeping, then go with him. Don't not pick a producer because he doesn't have a lot of hardware, that is ignorant.
 
rich boy cd went hard...one of the best cds of last year...he isn't mad lyrical, but he's not as simple-minded as he leads on to be...let's get this money proved that...besides throw some d's, i wore that cd out...he definitely gets my money on the next rip...i can tell he had to give the label what they wanted on certain songs..."young girl" had a message too...cat had alot to say...i used to jam "on the regular" to the point it was my official smoke song...damn...i'm poppin this in the deck this weekend...
 
Thats why you gotta love DJ Paul & Juicy J. They produce their artists' full album and give artistic direction. Their beats are taylor made for their artists (Pats beats have a different style than Wytes beats, etc) and they still maintain the 3-6 sound. You gotta love those dudes...
 
1005 said:
word? he should have kept few of em "in the storage", cos i wasn't really feeling the ones on rich boys lp...

You sound crazy.

lol.

Why would he save beats for a project that wasnt started yet?
 
Broken Friday said:
What the hell do you mean point and click? Bill Gates is one of the richest of men on this earth, and got money by pointing and clicking.

I have no hardware (except MiDi controller) so I have to point and click, your standards are high. If a producer can output great music just by sleeping, then go with him. Don't not pick a producer because he doesn't have a lot of hardware, that is ignorant.


I think he means the "mindset" of the point and click producer. Ones that just randomly click things until something comes out OR paint by numbers beatmakers. This can be true with MCs too, they say thing that sound "tight" but dont have any meaning behind them. They are just randomly picking phrases that fit well together. Not trying to get a point across!!! I think that is what he meant OR he could have a bias for hardware. He would have to tell you himself......
 
not agreeing or disagreeing just wanted to say a little somethin'. the difference between the early years -about 2 g is that it was mainly groups, meaning the rapper(s) and dj/producer were one.

that's not the case anymore for the most part.

after a while every member had a solo project even before they released the first single, then came the era of the 'supaproduca', which lead to basically a compilation album, at least musically.

some more factors on both sides (not even gonna mention the erosion from the business and talent seeking crowd or their rent/bills/mortgage/job security and how that affected the vibe) and here we are.
 
Broken Friday said:
What the hell do you mean point and click? Bill Gates is one of the richest of men on this earth, and got money by pointing and clicking.

I have no hardware (except MiDi controller) so I have to point and click, your standards are high. If a producer can output great music just by sleeping, then go with him. Don't not pick a producer because he doesn't have a lot of hardware, that is ignorant.


^^^^^plain ignorant
 
man... I've been tryna build a relationship qith rappers in my aea... but it gets so hard to find someone I can muscially dela wit..

niggas is dumb..
 
Broken Friday said:
What the hell do you mean point and click? Bill Gates is one of the richest of men on this earth, and got money by pointing and clicking.

I have no hardware (except MiDi controller) so I have to point and click, your standards are high. If a producer can output great music just by sleeping, then go with him. Don't not pick a producer because he doesn't have a lot of hardware, that is ignorant.

I can see why you'd be pissed over that statement, but you've really got it twisted. When I say point and click, I mean FL studio producers that don't push themselves to learn the real art of music. Like, how to read, how to play, how to arrange vocals. I'd pay 200K for a producer that knows what they're doing, before I pay 12K for some rookie with "a" hot beat. I know that may be offensive to some, but I've really seen the light on these so-called hip-hop producers. Im not paying for a sample, then have to turn around and pay you. No way. And im not saying I have an issue with samplers. Hip-hop was founded of the sample. Im saying, please give me more bang for my buck.

And Rich Boy had one of my fav albums of 06/07. I think people threw him into the group of ringtone rappers and wouldn't give him a chance. I copped the album first week, off the strength that, Polow is my fav new producer out. I was surprised that Rich Boy could really spit. Im def coppin his next project.
 
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I have to admit is been hard for me to build a relationship with producers (well with a lot of music personalities in general)...My favorite producer is not in the US and his priorities (as they should be are with his local artists) the few producers that i find here are more interested in getting one hit rather than getting "a" particular sound and trying to mesh the best of both worlds...is more like here is a beat, is hot, kill it...and i am like wow i wanna do something kinda like what ceelo green did with his producer in Gnarl's barkley..some are more interested in networking, when their product is not up to their level where they should be networking (a producer I know that has been producing for 4 months decided to send his beats to NAS, I mean you are good but not THAT good)......and finally what ticks me off the most (and i see this more with producers locally more than those that use the internet) is that they dont take the time to learn about mixing, music theory and recording...so then they be calling me like come to my house and record and i am like...dude you need a preamp if not i am not coming through.......so basically it becomes very difficult to drive a professional project...
 
The1andOnly said:
I have to admit is been hard for me to build a relationship with producers (well with a lot of music personalities in general)...My favorite producer is not in the US and his priorities (as they should be are with his local artists) the few producers that i find here are more interested in getting one hit rather than getting "a" particular sound and trying to mesh the best of both worlds...is more like here is a beat, is hot, kill it...and i am like wow i wanna do something kinda like what ceelo green did with his producer in Gnarl's barkley..some are more interested in networking, when their product is not up to their level where they should be networking (a producer I know that has been producing for 4 months decided to send his beats to NAS, I mean you are good but not THAT good)......and finally what ticks me off the most (and i see this more with producers locally more than those that use the internet) is that they dont take the time to learn about mixing, music theory and recording...so then they be calling me like come to my house and record and i am like...dude you need a preamp if not i am not coming through.......so basically it becomes very difficult to drive a professional project...

And thus, this is the reason I started producing for myself 4 years ago. I've lost alot of relationships behind doing production. Alot of my rap "freinds" bust my balls for beats. What they don't understand is I do beats soley for myself. I was tiered of hassling for beats. Only to find outrages prices for fncking sample and bull**** FL Studio synths. Im like to hell with this. Im doing my sh!t for myself. So im constantly telling them, im a rapper first and a producer 2nd. Im not interested in making beat money, im interested in making someone top 10. Dead or alive. Never let the money drive you. You'll never make a statement like that.
 
Dot_Robinson said:
beats that drive vocals just as much as the delivery

I think thats whats missing in a lot of today's music. Producers just wanna make "fire instrumentals" without thinking of the song as a whole.
 
If i was a rapper I think I would do that...unfortunately since I am a singer...there's no way I have time to singing lessons, write my songs, learn how to play the keyboard, then learn how to put it all together, I'd rather pay somebody else to do all of that....yet I still get a freaking hard time because at the end they are trying to make a living $500 at a time...where i am like ummm lets do a whole album and I need you to stay around so we can change the timing of this beat if needed...so we can change the volumes of the beat so it fits the vocals better...so THIS COULD BE THE BEST FREAKING BEAT EVER.....but hey what do i know...
 
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