The Game - The Documentary (Official Tracklist)

[Wiggum Ralph]

Yet The Black Album is like 2 million and change now????

2mil aint **** for an artist as big as Jay. He usually undersells, IMO. But yeah, the sequencing was messed up.

 

[j.troup]

Troup keep doing whatever it is that excites you and pass gas at whoever talks shyt....including myself.

You know i'm always happy to!

When you're studying Game's CD could you please come back and tell the rest of us why some dumbass REALLY chose to release "How We Do" as a first single instead of "HIGHER"? Yeah we've heard that bullshyt about Game wanting to use whatever sounded like DRE's first beat, but that song pretty much gets shytted on in the streets and clubs...least in NY anyway.

See...from what i've noticed, labels put out 'tester' tracks. Just to test the waters. If the song bombs at radio, or the test public reacts otherwise negatively, they'll pull it, go back and re-work the album.

They did that with Higher. They really thought that was gonna be the first single. So they put it out as a 'tester', and people hated it. That song was ass and had no radio appeal. So they pulled it. Then we get 'How We Do'. That song did better. Much better. Pretty much followed the tried and true pattern.

Game already had a nice buzz from the Dre/Eminem/50Cent factors (remember those?? , so he didn't/doesn't really need a blow-out first single. So 'How We Do' got a positive response, so they left it at that.

Why is it that almost everyone I know believes that the Black Album had some of the worst album sequencing in quite a while. I mean even at Jay's shows he was normally performing "December 4th" as his last song of the night. "Public Service Announcement" would serve as the opening song while leading into his older shyt and then "What More Can I Say"....

So much for learning about sequencing.

And I agree. This album did have a confusing sequencing. And I've tried to study that album (along with alot of others) to try to figure out what the reasoning was behind that particular sequencing. Sequencing wise, there was alot left to be desired. But then again, Jay's last album was all over the place too. We all know that Jay got really lazy toward the end, and this is just an example of that.

And when Game's album comes out, I'm gonna try to figure out the reasoning behind his sequencing. And then i'm gonna take the albums that i've tried to study, and try to find some sort of correlation between the sequencing...some sort of pattern if you will. And then try to devise my own sequencing 'rules'.

I never said everyone was good at sequencing tracks, but you learn by comparing the good to the bad. I have to know what makes both of them good/bad, in order to do it right.

This is just what i do. I did the same thing when i was first learning about publishing. I would see all of those ASCAP's and BMI's and all those wierd names next to them and wonder what they were. Why under 'PUBLISHED BY' was there like 10 diff entities, but there was only one rapper and one producer? So i kept comparing CD credits, and i pursued learning about publishing.

But some people would have told me 'you ain't even got no songs on the radio, you shouldn't be trying to learn about publishing".


Game's CD is not the only one i'm gonna study or have studied for comparisons sakes. I've studied all of Outkast's releases, Jay-z's releases, Bad Boys', No Limit, Cash Money...alot of artists/labels.

I'm not saying that Game's CD will teach me everything I need to know. But I've been waiting for quite a while for a project with SIGNIFICANT Dr. Dre input, and it's finally come along. And I'm excited about it.

Take alot of data, put it all together, analyze it, find patterns, recognize trends, and study success rates. That's what i do. That's what I like. And i get to apply it to hot ass music as well.

I don't get no better for ME.

 

[DC SOUNDS]

You know i'm always happy to!




See...from what i've noticed, labels put out 'tester' tracks. Just to test the waters. If the song bombs at radio, or the test public reacts otherwise negatively, they'll pull it, go back and re-work the album.

They did that with Higher. They really thought that was gonna be the first single. So they put it out as a 'tester', and people hated it. That song was ass and had no radio appeal. So they pulled it. Then we get 'How We Do'. That song did better. Much better. Pretty much followed the tried and true pattern.

Game already had a nice buzz from the Dre/Eminem/50Cent factors (remember those?? , so he didn't/doesn't really need a blow-out first single. So 'How We Do' got a positive response, so they left it at that.





And I agree. This album did have a confusing sequencing. And I've tried to study that album (along with alot of others) to try to figure out what the reasoning was behind that particular sequencing. Sequencing wise, there was alot left to be desired. But then again, Jay's last album was all over the place too. We all know that Jay got really lazy toward the end, and this is just an example of that.

And when Game's album comes out, I'm gonna try to figure out the reasoning behind his sequencing. And then i'm gonna take the albums that i've tried to study, and try to find some sort of correlation between the sequencing...some sort of pattern if you will. And then try to devise my own sequencing 'rules'.

I never said everyone was good at sequencing tracks, but you learn by comparing the good to the bad. I have to know what makes both of them good/bad, in order to do it right.

This is just what i do. I did the same thing when i was first learning about publishing. I would see all of those ASCAP's and BMI's and all those wierd names next to them and wonder what they were. Why under 'PUBLISHED BY' was there like 10 diff entities, but there was only one rapper and one producer? So i kept comparing CD credits, and i pursued learning about publishing.

But some people would have told me 'you ain't even got no songs on the radio, you shouldn't be trying to learn about publishing".


Game's CD is not the only one i'm gonna study or have studied for comparisons sakes. I've studied all of Outkast's releases, Jay-z's releases, Bad Boys', No Limit, Cash Money...alot of artists/labels.

I'm not saying that Game's CD will teach me everything I need to know. But I've been waiting for quite a while for a project with SIGNIFICANT Dr. Dre input, and it's finally come along. And I'm excited about it.

Take alot of data, put it all together, analyze it, find patterns, recognize trends, and study success rates. That's what i do. That's what I like. And i get to apply it to hot ass music as well.

I don't get no better for ME.

IMO dre failed miserably with the most important factor in album sales, setting up a monster single, he failed twice. Higher was trash, and so is how we do, 50 making an appearance made a little room for club exposure, but from the corny ass popeye face video to the corny ass beat that was terrible.......so much for studying dre.

 

[Wiggum Ralph]

IMO dre failed miserably with the most important factor in album sales, setting up a monster single, he failed twice. Higher was trash, and so is how we do, 50 making an appearance made a little room for club exposure, but from the corny ass popeye face video to the corny ass beat that was terrible.......so much for studying dre.

Damn, a least wait till the album comes out before we say dissapointing album sales.

But as far as studying Dre, everybody should study Dre. His mixes are superior to others. Yes, This is How We Do isn't musically genius, but the sonic quality of it is superior.

 

[Beat Off]

Damn, a least wait till the album comes out before we say dissapointing album sales.

But as far as studying Dre, everybody should study Dre. His mixes are superior to others. Yes, This is How We Do isn't musically genius, but the sonic quality of it is superior.

Dre aint mixing anything thats his engineers.

 

[YoungHov]

Dre aint mixing anything thats his engineers.

Doesn't it depend what you classify as mixing? All producers mix to an extent....even if they aren't responsible for how the finished product sounds.

 

[ONE80]

Take alot of data, put it all together, analyze it, find patterns, recognize trends, and study success rates. That's what i do. That's what I like. And i get to apply it to hot ass music as well.

I don't get no better for ME.

Your initiative is amazing. I've studied Outkast's albums; not in the sense of track sequencing, but the album sequencing. Do you think its possible to over-analyze music, though?

 

[Beat Off]

Doesn't it depend what you classify as mixing? All producers mix to an extent....even if they aren't responsible for how the finished product sounds.

Yeah but the final quality is what counts.

 

[YoungHov]

Yeah but the final quality is what counts.

Yeah you're right, a professional mix can make a good beat sound great.

 

[DaFunkDocta]

Your initiative is amazing. I've studied Outkast's albums; not in the sense of track sequencing, but the album sequencing. Do you think its possible to over-analyze music, though?

Absolutely you can over-analyze music. This is exactly what this cat is doing right here, because most people tend to forget one huge fact about the music business: THERE ARE NO RULES, buddy. NO regulations. NO fixed formula that's going to guarantee success next year. Why? Because the definition of a hit can change from year to year. I mean, c'mon, can't anyone see that "How We Do" is Dre's attempt to fit in, sonically, with what's popular right this second, in essence, Lil' Jon's sound? Studying Dre NOW will only keep you in the NOW instead of putting more time into blazing your own trail, setting new standards, and branding your concepts for the mass market. OBSERVING Dre is cool, but analyzing how did an album, which will be OLD to him by the time it even announces a release date, is just dragging your heels.

Stay busy on the boards, keep your eyes and ears open, and stay busy on the boards.

 

[j.troup]

Your initiative is amazing. I've studied Outkast's albums; not in the sense of track sequencing, but the album sequencing. Do you think its possible to over-analyze music, though?

I'm not analyzing the music, per se. That's where people are getting it twisted. There is a method to sequencing the tracks on an album. Different sequences of tracks affect the overall perception of the album. The placement of your strongest songs on the album in relation to the other songs on the album, affects not only the perception of the strong songs, but the weak ones too. The right sequencing can make your weak songs come off stronger. The wrong sequencing can make your strong songs come off wack.

It's like this. Take a cute girl and put her next to 4 butt ugly ass chicks. The perception is that the average girl is fine as hell. But take that same cute chick, and put her next to Halle Berry and Gabrielle Union. The perception of the very same cute chick changes from fine to damn near ugly.

It's the method behind having all of your songs come off strong that I want to learn. Among other things.



And analyzing the music. When i was first learning, I studied different music. To learn how to arrange a track. To learn how to achieve different sounds and different emotions. Then once I learned that, I studied some more to learn how adding in subtle ambient noises can enhance the overall quality of the track. I learned how those little things that we don't even realize we hear make a HUGE difference in the music.

I learned how some instruments convey different emotion better than others. Take Lil Jon's 'Lovers and Friends'. It has a piano on the main melody. Comes across real lovey dovey. Now imagine that piano riff replaced by Jon's standard detuned synth. It would mess up the mood of the track completely. I had to learn that from analyzing people's music.

But at the end of the day, it is about hot music. What I'm saying is that hot music doesn't just come about. There is a science behind creating hot music. Because hot music is determined by the individual mind. And we all know that there is a science to the mind.

Hot vs Wack is all about human perception. The emotion and reaction that the music envokes. Certain music/sounds put people in certain moods. There is a science to that. And that's what I analyze music to find out.








PS...and Dre does mix. Check the credits. Eminem mixed Lloyd Banks' "On Fire". Kwame said he wished Dre had mixed that track.

 

[BedroomBeatz]

^ that stuff is just common sense. you need to calm your nerves

 

[j.troup]

Absolutely you can over-analyze music. This is exactly what this cat is doing right here, because most people tend to forget one huge fact about the music business: THERE ARE NO RULES, buddy. NO regulations. NO fixed formula that's going to guarantee success next year. Why? Because the definition of a hit can change from year to year. I mean, c'mon, can't anyone see that "How We Do" is Dre's attempt to fit in, sonically, with what's popular right this second, in essence, Lil' Jon's sound? Studying Dre NOW will only keep you in the NOW instead of putting more time into blazing your own trail, setting new standards, and branding your concepts for the mass market. OBSERVING Dre is cool, but analyzing how did an album, which will be OLD to him by the time it even announces a release date, is just dragging your heels.

Stay busy on the boards, keep your eyes and ears open, and stay busy on the boards.

That's like saying 'studying business now will only keep you in the NOW, instead of how to become an innovative entrepreneur."

Studying LIL JOHN would be the waste of time. I chose Dre because obviously he knows something about staying on top. He's been in the game for like 20 years, and spent most of it at the top. I didn't say all of his moves were genius moves. But more often than not, he wins. So he knows a little something about what he's doing.

Whenever people are involved, there is a science to it. It's not just luck. Music is just like marketing. You have to appeal to the people to buy the product. So you study what's been done in the past, what was successful. You find out that sex sells. Babies and puppies in advertisements sell. Certain methods sell certain products. There is a SCIENCE to that.

How you package a product affects it's perception. How you present a product affects people's perception of it. And there most definitely is a science to that.

I'm not over-analyzing anything. You act like i said I'M GOING TO BE JUST LIKE DRE AND EVERYTHING I DO IS GOING TO BE JUST LIKE HIM. I never said that. I've studied alot of different people, different albums, differen't aritsts, different executives. Over the past 15 years. And from all the knowledge i'm compiling and that I continue to compile, I shape my plan. I'm just builiding and learning from the actions of those that have come before me. I'm listening to the stories they tell, taking into account the advice they give.

I'm not trying to be like one person. I want to be a hybrid of all of them, with my own twist mixed in. It's worked for me all of my life and has never failed me. And it's not about to start now.


And since you people are so busy telling me what NOT to do, how would you suggest I go about learning this industry?

 

[Beat Off]

I dont believe album credits anymore. Especially dealing with Dre he's always going to get the credit.

 

[Wiggum Ralph]

Dre aint mixing anything thats his engineers.

According to Mauricia "Vito" Iragorri, Dre is involved in Pre-Mastering Mixing. That's why that Dre sound has never left Dre, even when changing engineers.

No disrespect but I would rather take Vito's words than yours...

 

[DaFunkDocta]

That's like saying 'studying business now will only keep you in the NOW, instead of how to become an innovative entrepreneur."

Studying LIL JOHN would be the waste of time. I chose Dre because obviously he knows something about staying on top. He's been in the game for like 20 years, and spent most of it at the top. I didn't say all of his moves were genius moves. But more often than not, he wins. So he knows a little something about what he's doing.

Whenever people are involved, there is a science to it. It's not just luck. Music is just like marketing. You have to appeal to the people to buy the product. So you study what's been done in the past, what was successful. You find out that sex sells. Babies and puppies in advertisements sell. Certain methods sell certain products. There is a SCIENCE to that.

How you package a product affects it's perception. How you present a product affects people's perception of it. And there most definitely is a science to that.

I'm not over-analyzing anything. You act like i said I'M GOING TO BE JUST LIKE DRE AND EVERYTHING I DO IS GOING TO BE JUST LIKE HIM. I never said that. I've studied alot of different people, different albums, differen't aritsts, different executives. Over the past 15 years. And from all the knowledge i'm compiling and that I continue to compile, I shape my plan. I'm just builiding and learning from the actions of those that have come before me. I'm listening to the stories they tell, taking into account the advice they give.

I'm not trying to be like one person. I want to be a hybrid of all of them, with my own twist mixed in. It's worked for me all of my life and has never failed me. And it's not about to start now.


And since you people are so busy telling me what NOT to do, how would you suggest I go about learning this industry?

Release something. Go straight to the people with the product and brace yourself for the love or the hate or being totally overlooked.

I can agree that there are certain factors involved in launching an artist's album and career, but any science behind it is very, very fluid, and very susceptible to any number of influences from the media, the fans, etc. If there's anything I've personally learned from Dre is to not be scared and beholdened with my investments. If there's anything about Dre that's more than evident, is that as a businessman, he's a Shook One. The Lame is his safest bet because if it flops he can blame 50. If he went and believed in himself enough to produce that Rakim album that never happened, he would have been seen as a true businessman...someone who's willing to take a risk and open doors. But, he had no one to blame if a Rakim or Hittman or King Tee album flopped. Which is why I can only perceive The Lame as Dr. Dre's Rap Industry Experiment. He's taken on of Hip-Hop's most revered qualities---its resourcefulness with nothing in hand---and applied it to this one dude's whole career. I'm impressed, but saddened and perplexed at the same time.

 

[Beat Off]

According to Mauricia "Vito" Iragorri, Dre is involved in Pre-Mastering Mixing. That's why that Dre sound has never left Dre, even when changing engineers.

No disrespect but I would rather take Vito's words than yours...

I'm not asking you to take my word on anything. In my opinion based on the credit he gets for beats he didnt do he probably gives some input but he hardly does everything by himself.

 

[MintyFreshBeats]

Farnsworth Bentley ghost-produces for Dre.


End of story.

 

[j.troup]

I can agree that there are certain factors involved in launching an artist's album and career, but any science behind it is very, very fluid, and very susceptible to any number of influences from the media, the fans, etc.

I never said the science behind the music industry was iron clad. I just said it exists, and I want to learn of the methods behind the madness. That succeptibility to influences is just the dynamic nature of the marketplace. The rules of engagement don't change, but how and when you apply those rules has to be modified to fit the situation. But if one dosen't even know the rules, they can't even do battle on the same field.

If there's anything about Dre that's more than evident, is that as a businessman, he's a Shook One. The Lame is his safest bet because if it flops he can blame 50.

i couldn't disagree with this more. First off, Game is a 50/50 venture with 50. Just like 50 was a split venture with Eminem. At the end of the day, Dre is the biggest name, so he's gonna get the credit or the blame. Just because he's the most visible.

Seconly, Dre is far from a Shook One, business wise. He took a chance and walked away from the Wreckin Cru in the wake of their hit "Turn Off The Lights" to join NWA, at a time when there wasn't even a such thing as gangsta rap. Lipstick and Lace still ruled the airwaves and Dre walked away from that to take a chance with 4 other brotha's from LA.

At the height of being apart of the most influential rap group PERIOD, he walked away from that to start a record label with a former UNLV football player turned BODY GUARD. He took a HUGE GAMBLE and won.

Then, at the very pinnacle of the Death Row reign, he walks away EMPTY HANDED (when he is technically owed 50 million dollars) to start his own company. He could have played it safe and rode out the DR days. But he walked away from the reigning kings of music.

Then, as the flagship artist of his fledgling label, he signs a SKINNY, BLONDE HAIRED, BLUE EYED WHITE BOY from Detroit, and co-signs him to the world. That was FAR from safe.

So Dre's entire resume is full of taking the ultimate risks. Shook Ones would have stuck with the various situations. Dre is an extreme gambler. But he knows the rules to the game, so the risks he takes are always extremely calculated, and they generally pay off.

If he went and believed in himself enough to produce that Rakim album that never happened, he would have been seen as a true businessman...someone who's willing to take a risk and open doors. But, he had no one to blame if a Rakim or Hittman or King Tee album flopped.

2 Ego's as big as Dre's and Rakim's were not going to co-exist in the same space for very long. And you know what? Dre had Em and 50 to worry about. He wasn't worried about Rakim's project. As a businessman, he made the most profitable decision. And that was to focus his energies on his 2 cash cows, NOT on a rap legend who the majority of the buying public doesn't even KNOW about. That's called making a business decision in the best interest of the company. And that's what he did.

Take a risk and open doors? What do you think Em was? 50? Game? These weren't/aren't established vets, these were/are rookies that he took a chance on. Opened a door to bring someone else in. Not joined forces with someone who was already in the door.


Saddened and perplexed? I don't see how.

 

[Furiobeats]

By the way...if I wanted to learn from someone I'd choose a few people who were known for pissin' the world off....


1. Huey P. Newton
2. X
3. Brian Warner
4. Eminem. Yup....got an argument for that?
5. Pac.

You forgot about the king....Howard Muthafuking Stern.