Stereo Spread Techniques and Mono Compatibility

J

JohnnyRecs

New member
Hi! I am wondering what techniques forum users use to get some stereo spread, while maintaining the best possible mono compatibility. Here are a few things I have going on my mixes, and wondering which of these are the best approaches, and if there are any ways to improve my techniques.

1. On some percussion or hi hats that I want to have a stereo spread and sound doubled, duplicating the track, panning left and right (sometimes hard, sometimes medium pan), and delaying one of the tracks 10-30ms (behind or ahead of the beat) for desired effect.

2. Using Logic's Sample Delay to technically do the same thing as stated above, however without having to duplicate the track. Delay set by ear to "samples"

3. Waves Reel ADT Plugin set to "Fake Stereo" and the Sync button pressed in to get the tempo of the doubled effect in time with the bpm.

4. Izotope's Stereo Spreader. Press the stereoize button, set the delay between channels by ear, pull the first band all the way down to mono (below 120hz), second band stays in the middle, or just a little bit of stereo spread (up to 5K or so), top 2 bands (up to 7K, and up to the top), spread progressively more at the top.

5. Izotope's Stereo Spreader on Percussion and Hi-hat bus, without pressing the stereoize button (so not introducing an audible delay/double effect); same approach, with the 4 bands split as outlined in #4.

For all of these technqiues, I have the Brainworx BX Control on my master, and the monomaker on everything before 175, to ensure that all the low end in my mixes is in mono. However, I would like to make sure that these stereo techniques I am using are optimal. I recently learned of Xfer's Dimension Expander, which uses M/S processing, or something along those lines (one side being our of phase), so that the effect cancels when summed to mono, causing no loss of the main signal in mono. Is this possible to use to replace all those other techniques, or is there another plugin that does a similar thing to what I am doing with the first 5 techniques, that will provide better mono compatibility?

Thanks!
 
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The absolute best way of making a stereosound imo, is actually layering.
Find 2 similar samples or more (or copy a sample and make it slightly different), pan them to each side by taste.
Maybe even use an additional sample in the middle if necessary.

Otherwise, if I want to make 1 sound stereo, I use the Thrillseeker XTC by Variety Of Sound (free) followed, though it doesn't work that well in every sound (some starts to sound sloppy). I've also tried the SLVR Spreader a little (also free). Such plugin followed by an M/S-gain plugin can give nice results.

You can also use different creative ways of creating stereo sounds, for example experimenting with chorus, phasing, flanging, etc.
You can either turn it into 1 stereo sound, or pan the dry signal to one side, and the wet to the other. Just go crazy and try all kinds of stuff.

I almost never use stereo-delay anymore since I don't like how it sounds when the track is played in mono. If I would use it, it would be on a more subtle sound, and I would use a more sloppy delaytime rather than a tight one that would sound horrible in mono.
 
I think the technique that you are using is sufficient at the least for the result that you want -- as far as stereo imaging goes. I do believe it is a question of your levels and mixing, which may be causing the problem, rather than your plugins or not using an "optimal" technique.

I am not saying there is not a better way to do what you are doing (I'm certain there is, but I do not have the certifications to tell you what that is), but I do know that more times than not, it is in fact a mix issue.
If not, though, then perhaps this reply is useless and I wish you good luck on your quest! :cheers:
 
i find high shelving on the eq and setting to M/S (Mid/Side) does a good job, then bump it up no more then 6db. works wonders on sweeps, hats etc
 
The first thing you listed is probably the only think I'd do.

Say for my hi-hats, like you said, I duplicate it, pan them hard left and right. With one of the copies, I pitch them up or down a couple cents, then delay it from either 10-20ms depending how i feel. All that if I want that wide effect.

Another example of a wider fuller sounding percussion sample, is what I do with my claps. I'll do the same technique to get that stereo feeling, and add another clap that plays in the center of the mix. The claps that are set out wide usually are barely audible, or you wouldn't notice it if I didn't tell you. And obviously, you should get that the clap in the center is what stands out the most but you get that whole full stereo effect.

I make most of my sounds out of Massive. Most of my leads and plucks are made in mono with the exception of sounds associated with big saw chords and what not. I process almost all of my sounds with delays and reverb to get that space. And even more processing to make it blend well. Most of my delays are tempo based in milliseconds so if you want what delay times I use, it really varies depending on what tempo I'm writing in. That goes the same with my reverb predelay and decay times.

And like steffeeh said, layering sounds is the best way to get a full sounding stereo track, and still maintain mono compatibility. I struggled with it for months it was frustrating, worked through a lot of different things I thought would work, and in the end, it's not as complicated as a lot of people make it.

I tend to stay away from like Ozone's stereo imager and use M/S processing instead on my master, but very little EQ is used on my master anyway. The only thing I really do is take away the very low frequencies from my side signals and some mids as well. I also boost the high/airy frequencies in the sides without touching anything in the mid signal.
 
thanks for the reply.

followup question: when you are setting your reverb pre-delay and decay times to the tempo, what kind of values are you using? I've been doing a similar thing, for instance, on small drum room reverbs, I'll set the decay to a 1/4 note value of the tempo (469ms at 128bpm) and the pre-delay a dividend of that under 10ms (7.3ms at 128bpm). For the pre-delay, I think anything under 30ms would work without creating a "doubled sound", so I'm not sure if I'd get a better result lets say at 14.6ms, or 29.2ms, so I am curious what you've found in your approach.

I've been testing things in mono over the last few weeks and the Izotope approach seems to be working great (stereoize on individual drum tracks, non-stereoize on hi hat and percussion busses), as long as everything below 175 is fully mono, and then progressively more stereo after 5-7K. I like what it's doing to the sonic space. The Waves Reel ADT "Fake Stereo" effect is really giving me some cool results, and it does seem to be collapsing into mono just fine (at least as well as the doubling the track and delaying one by 10-30ms). All of the approaches seem to be working out, and depending on the character I am looking for for each patterns/sample, can all work fine. The only one that I am not so hot on is Logic's sample delay, as it's harder to gauge more specific values. Also haven't had much luck with the Dimension Expander yet, except on bass occasionally.
 
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Pre-delay is about when early reflections start so is almost a direct measure of room size - the longer the pre-delay the larger the room

Decay is about RT60 time, also a measure of the room size as well as treatment of that room; reverberation time (decay time as you quote it)) as the time required for the sound level to decrease by 60 dB (John L Sayers)
 
steffeeh said:
The absolute best way of making a stereosound imo, is actually layering.
Find 2 similar samples or more (or copy a sample and make it slightly different), pan them to each side by taste.
Maybe even use an additional sample in the middle if necessary.

Otherwise, if I want to make 1 sound stereo, I use the Thrillseeker XTC by Variety Of Sound (free) followed, though it doesn't work that well in every sound (some starts to sound sloppy). I've also tried the SLVR Spreader a little (also free). Such plugin followed by an M/S-gain plugin can give nice results.

You can also use different creative ways of creating stereo sounds, for example experimenting with chorus, phasing, flanging, etc.
You can either turn it into 1 stereo sound, or pan the dry signal to one side, and the wet to the other. Just go crazy and try all kinds of stuff.

I almost never use stereo-delay anymore since I don't like how it sounds when the track is played in mono. If I would use it, it would be on a more subtle sound, and I would use a more sloppy delaytime rather than a tight one that would sound horrible in mono.
Click to expand...

Hi steffeeh,

I agree with you, especially for percussive sounds, plucky synths etc. You should always check for phase issues (mono compatibility), Panipulator (free) is an awesome plugin for this task. Panipulator is also great when layering kick drums (checking for phase issues). Stereo delay is great for pads etc though, an easy and fast route to stereo width.
 
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