Skilled Hip-Hop Peoducer with Un-skilled Hardwared.. PLEASE RESPOND!!

[Talent82]

My name is Dan White, reverbnation DOT com/talent82 to here my music

I need an Audio interface.. I was thinking Pre-sonus

Here is what I currently do... I use reason, I have my yamaha PSR connected thru USB to my laptop and I use ASIO Virtual sound card, and it works great and ive made money with that small set-up.. But I have to do so much to get that "clear, in your face sound" that even some of the newer producers have.... is that because they are using a DAW to write there beats in.. Maybee because the BIT RATE IS higher, and they are using a firebox with a pre-amp??

Should I get a firebox with pro-tools, so that I can re-wire reason to it??

Any suggestiong would be amazing

 

[P. Casso]

It has more to do with mixing not the hardware being used.

 

[rollomusic]

You know I would have a look at the firebox. Its USB and presonus make some pretty cool gear. I have 4 of their Firestudio Projects (Firewire connection) and they rock. I also use Presonus Studio One Version 2.02 Pro as the DAW software. (Use to be a Pro Tools user cant stand the pricing structure to upgrade). Its way cooler software and a much easier workflow than Slowtools. I think you also get a free version of Studio One Artist with that firebox which you can try out. It is a cut down of the full version but it at least will let you try the software.

 

[krushing]

It has more to do with mixing not the hardware being used.

Seconded. Don't buy new stuff unless there's a need, learn to use what you have - in other words, practice mixing (for a few years).

 

[telepatrick]

reason

Yo Talent, I checked out your stuff, you are skilled.
Here's the scoop on the future of music, from one future producer to another.
An interface is only used if you want to bring in samples i.e. live guitar, drums, turntables maybe chop up some vinyl.
A nice interface will give you a clean audio sample, but actually turning that sample into a song, that is production skill. Anyone can chop up a sample, but getting that sample to deliver for you is all about audio mixing.
Mixing is the difference between light and day, but you could still practice your mixes for years and never get the sound you are looking for. What is the reason for this? It's not the DAW or the sampling rate, it's the plug-ins.
A DAW gives you some provisional tools to do advanced mixes off the bat, compressor, reverb, delay, EQ, etc. But thats only the basics, thats just the tip of the wiener. You can go balls deep. Think, algebra in 7th grade vs. algebra in 12th grade, they give you what comes easy, not the shit programmers work on in R + D. A compressor is not just a compressor, they are all different, and talking about this is sure to make a lot of us audiophile nerds prejack in our pants.

What really helps these artists get such a delicious sound is through the use of external plug-ins, a lot of which emulate actual (expensive) physical hardware. People talk about going all analog or whatever, but they never understood why we use computers in the first place, because they do everything that was expensive for a cheap price. Using these plug-ins over the actual hardware will save you heaps of dolla dolla bills (while making you a whole of em, hopefully).
Another nice thing is that a DAW which hosts plugins costs around $60 (reaper) these days
[or nothing (audacity will host some basic AU and VST etc.)]
I can't say for sure which ones will work with what you are using (Reason) but if they don't I am almost sure Reaper can host Reason (and they provide you with a full-version for a 30 day free trial to check it out XD).

Check these plugins out to get you started
www dot pspaudioware dot com/plugins/
also check out an interview with bassnectar from DJ Tech tools dot com (circa 2008), I found it to be pretty insightful into today's music scene - producing, DJing, what separates men from boys, etc.

Skip Protools altogether, unless you work in a studio that also uses it and need to bring mixes back and forth- in today's competitive DAW market it is all but obsolete except for those few elite/pretentious of producers. Maybe at one point in the past Protools was easier to use than other software, but any notion that it sounds better is a myth. its all about the plug-ins.
And "the sky is the limit."

BTW When you end up springing for that interface, I recommend getting one with like 8 inputs and outputs cuz then you will be setup for good, like a real producer, i.e. hip-hop have like 5 people rhyming at once, multiple drum machines etc. catch it all on tape, mixdown/edit each track/voice separately, BA-BAM, hot shit.

 

[pfeezing]

Skip Protools altogether, unless you work in a studio that also uses it and need to bring mixes back and forth- in today's competitive DAW market it is all but obsolete except for those few elite/pretentious of producers. Maybe at one point in the past Protools was easier to use than other software, but any notion that it sounds better is a myth. its all about the plug-ins.
And "the sky is the limit."

Yeah this isn't right but good advice otherwise. Pro tools is still one of the best programs for tracking, mixing and mastering. It is far from obsolete for anything except maybe virtual composition (and even then many famous hollywood composers use ve pro and pt tu run all their vstis flawlessly). Aax plugin format is really efficient as well and pro tools 11 will be 64 bit. Not sure how it's obsolete. Not saying its best for him either btw just getting that out there.

 

[CPhoenix]

In regards to your feeling like you're not getting a good mix... my main questions is what's your monitoring setup like? What monitors do you use and what is your listening environment like?

If you don't have an audio interface, my guess is you don't have a good set of monitors and a good listening environment. They usually go hand in hand b/c most people send sound to their monitors thru the interface... unless you have a PCI solution with line outs. If you don't have that... that's where you might want to start. You have to be able to HEAR your mix in order to mix it.

Personally, I never felt I got a good mix in Reason either... but it's because I sucked at mixing at the time. If I were to go back to Reason... i'd probably still not get a good mix lol.. but that's b/c I'm so used to my current workflow in S1 and with my VST effects. You can mix in Reason just like any DAW... just a little differently workflow-wise. It's same basic tools. (And I still miss RV7000 reverb and the Scream module. Some of the best sounding effects across all DAWs IMO)

 

[telepatrick]

To clarify, I did not say Protools is obsolete (but is close to it). My wording might have been a little confusing, but I meant that only a few people will actually be satisfied committing to the Avid/ProTools scheme. Since most of what we do as music producers is technique and not technology, we do not need to spend thousands of dollars on studio equipment when we really just need to take the time to use what we have. The best equipment is what you have. Buy what you can afford.

Most of us cannot afford Protools, so instead of taking out a small-business loan, make a choice you can live with like Reaper Logic Ableton, etc. which give you so much flexibility and room to grow and few reasons to complain, because they are excellent programs. There maybe a reason to daydream about a music studio running top-end gear, but thats what most of us do anyways, and todays top-end gear is tomorrows Craigslist deal. SO there you go, future producers.

BTW Maybe ProTools 10/11 isn't yet obsolete, but ProTools 9 is! And to offer it at $600 only to replace it the next year, WTF? Why not just offer free updates like an honest software developer? Reason: branding and marketing.
NI's Maschine started out at 1.1, we are now on 1.7, and to those who bought it at the get-go, it sure has come a long way, but for FREE! Free means the world to a future producer.

 

[P. Casso]

This isn't factual at all. Not to bash you but it doesn't sound like you know much about PT, trying to keep info as factual as possible. Ableton and PT actually are the same price. Logic was actually more expensive until recently when Apple began to offer it direct. There is nothing that can be done elsewhere that can't be done in PT, outside of offline bouncing.

 

[telepatrick]

There is nothing that can be done elsewhere that can't be done in PT, outside of offline bouncing.

Make no mistakes, I never claimed to be an expert in ProTools, I am stating my case because I myself find no use for ProTools, I did try it out, once, and I found it to be a real pain and not worth the hype.


As you claim, ProTools does the same as others. If this is true, why is ProTools never used in creative live performances? You might say that a music producer who cannot use his DAW to take his mix somewhere and rock the crowd, or conversely, record a live band somewhere, then he needs a new DAW, as his current DAW is obsolete. The tools for music production today are diverse, and ProTools is and will continue to be at the very high-end of studio production, but this fact is irrelevant for the majority of future producers, because we do not have small fortune-type budgets!
Ableton and Logic are presently the top choices because they present no boundaries between live music and studio production. ProTools requires an expensive, well-featured machine to work properly and not make you pull your hair out. For example, ProTools 9 hardly worked on my 2008 MacBook Pro (or any other laptop), whereas Ableton Logic and Reaper are excellent programs requiring minimal CPU power, meaning I can run them in the background without any significant lag on my other applications, and I can trust them not to freeze/crash in live performance or home studio applications.

You can have all the tools in the world, but without good workflow, all the tools in the world won't help you any.
Fortunately, all these DAWs have good workflow, I don't see how ProTools gives you any inherent advantages. In all instances, hardware maximizes workflow, and ProTools hardware is the most expensive of all, because it is intended for high-end recording studios.

In the not-too-distant past, ProTools was the #1 choice of Hip Hop producers working in the digital format. I didnt think to remind you of the context of this discussion before, but the OP is a Hip-Hop Producer. In the present day, "up and coming" producers use FL studio Ableton and Logic because they are more accessible to the average home studio music producer and give you features to sample remix and sync beats, opening the door to experiment with your ideas.

I made no mistake, I am familiar with the complaints about each DAW because I read a lot. It is after-all, pointless for me to use ProTools because my machine won't handle it and I am not buying a new one when I can just use diff't software.

In my original post I said ProTools is all but obsolete, quite a subjective statement and not something you can easily argue against as I left myself an easy out (A good argumentative strategy FYI). We are all subjective after all, this is music production, its all embedded in a milieu, the point is to sort out facts from BS. If I had said that ProTools was garbage, then you were right to call crap, but that is not what I said. I was simply making the case that ProTools is not a practical avenue for a producer on a budget, which most of us are, and there are better ways to invest in equipment (software/hardware) which will serve your goals of making money as a hip-hop musician.

Dems the facts.

peace.

 

[P. Casso]

Pro Tools is not designed for live use. Ableton Live is gear more toward this but that isn't part of the discussion. I will admit PT can be very touchy in regards to performance on some systems.

Pro Tools was never until recently even considered as a beatmaking tool. People normally used it for tracking and mixing. On the last few version improvements have been made to the midi side of things. Avid interfaces are not even necessary these days as Avid gave up on the silly restrictions. No DAW will give someone an "advantage". Knowing how to use it does. The OP in reality was asking a mixing related question and was told that the program and hardware being used really made no difference (very true). What genre of music means nothing when you are talking about mixing. In truth the genre doesn't have anything to do with anything. You can make the same track and mix in ANY program.

PT was named a lot by hip hop beatmakers typically because they would hear it mentioned by their favorite producers not because they were actually making tracks with it. This is the case with most commercial studios as far as tracking is concerned. And in most cases it wasn't being used for production, just tracking and mixing.

Relax, as I said earlier I wasn't calling you out or trying ridicule you. Just stating that what you were saying wasn't quite accurate. The actual program someone uses really doesn't make a difference.

 

[ultra auris]

re

pro tools is used all the time live. it works about the same as any other DAW. It may be better at some things than other daws but the limits are more with the user than the program. and its still the standard.

 

[P. Casso]

Recording a live show to Pro Tools? Very much happens all the time (I've done it). Running a live performance from Pro Tools, as in part of a DJ/live beat performance, other solutions can be better. The "standard" is in regards to recording studios.

 

[ultra auris]

re

Recording a live show to Pro Tools? Very much happens all the time (I've done it). Running a live performance from Pro Tools, as in part of a DJ/live beat performance, other solutions can be better. The "standard" is in regards to recording studios.

for sure. for a dj type show ableton would be stronger. obviously PT's strength is regular recording but one could do plenty with it if they needed to. Im just saying for the orignal guy it never hurts to know pro tools especially since he wants to improve mixing. Technique is way more important than what program or even really what plug ins he uses, they all do the same stuff in general. Laptop with ASIO is bare bones but the right guy can kill it with that all day.

 

[pfeezing]

Make no mistakes, I never claimed to be an expert in ProTools, I am stating my case because I myself find no use for ProTools, I did try it out, once, and I found it to be a real pain and not worth the hype.

different strokes, though it doesn't really sound like you've used it very much

As you claim, ProTools does the same as others. If this is true, why is ProTools never used in creative live performances? You might say that a music producer who cannot use his DAW to take his mix somewhere and rock the crowd, or conversely, record a live band somewhere, then he needs a new DAW, as his current DAW is obsolete

A music producer is going to create something an artist is going to further and then the artist will take it and "rock the crowd". Most stuff you hear on the radio has touched a pro tools session at some point

. The tools for music production today are diverse, and ProTools is and will continue to be at the very high-end of studio production, but this fact is irrelevant for the majority of future producers, because we do not have small fortune-type budgets!

Ableton live and pro tools basically cost the same. Since you mention the tools for music production are diverse, I'll mention that no DAW deals with hardware and signal routing as flawlessly and smoothly as pro tools. Got an asr, an mpc, a kronos, a prophet 5 and a live drum kit? No problem. Bunch of outboard gear? cake.

Ableton and Logic are presently the top choices because they present no boundaries between live music and studio production. ProTools requires an expensive, well-featured machine to work properly and not make you pull your hair out. For example, ProTools 9 hardly worked on my 2008 MacBook Pro (or any other laptop), whereas Ableton Logic and Reaper are excellent programs requiring minimal CPU power, meaning I can run them in the background without any significant lag on my other applications, and I can trust them not to freeze/crash in live performance or home studio applications.

Pro Tools, Logic and Ableton Live are all 32 bit programs and require similar system specs and run basically the same on similar well set up systems. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't change the facts

You can have all the tools in the world, but without good workflow, all the tools in the world won't help you any.
Fortunately, all these DAWs have good workflow, I don't see how ProTools gives you any inherent advantages. In all instances, hardware maximizes workflow, and ProTools hardware is the most expensive of all, because it is intended for high-end recording studios.

Pro Tools 10 (regular, not hd native or hd) works with third party hardware much the same as any of the other DAWs you've mentioned. Pro Tools pretty much gives you 3-4 different ways to accomplish the same task, has amazing quickkey shortcuts, phenomenal automation and editing features and routes hardware (the stuff that "maximizes" workflow according to you) the best.

In the not-too-distant past, ProTools was the #1 choice of Hip Hop producers working in the digital format. I didnt think to remind you of the context of this discussion before, but the OP is a Hip-Hop Producer. In the present day, "up and coming" producers use FL studio Ableton and Logic because they are more accessible to the average home studio music producer and give you features to sample remix and sync beats, opening the door to experiment with your ideas.

Hip hop producers probably liked Pro Tools because real old school hip hop producers use MPCs, Motifs, ASRs etc. It's easy to get your hardware to synch with pro tools and use something like an mpc as the slave or master. If you're good at editting pro tools has amazing time stretching options and algorithms for remixing

I made no mistake, I am familiar with the complaints about each DAW because I read a lot. It is after-all, pointless for me to use ProTools because my machine won't handle it and I am not buying a new one when I can just use diff't software.

You make a huge mistake dismissing pro tools just because you had issues running it on one system.

In my original post I said ProTools is all but obsolete, quite a subjective statement and not something you can easily argue against as I left myself an easy out (A good argumentative strategy FYI). We are all subjective after all, this is music production, its all embedded in a milieu, the point is to sort out facts from BS. If I had said that ProTools was garbage, then you were right to call crap, but that is not what I said. I was simply making the case that ProTools is not a practical avenue for a producer on a budget, which most of us are, and there are better ways to invest in equipment (software/hardware) which will serve your goals of making money as a hip-hop musician.

Dems the facts.

peace.

Nothing you've said is anything close to a fact. Most of your criticisms of pro tools are actually based upon incorrect assumptions.

 

[P. Casso]

Very true Ultra.