Secret to Hard Hitting Kicks

[skitzothebeast]

For those who are concerned about getting those hard hitting (in your face) kicks, it's really simple. It's a very frustrating topic that has been dwelled on by many producers and only a few have yet to uncover the secret. I'm here to share with you my experience in obtaining this technique and the steps in making you one step closer to achieving your goal. Do note that I cannot teach you how to mix your drums, only guide you as to how to get your beats in the standard they are supposed to be at (for mainstream purposes). Let's begin:

1) Start By Selecting Great High Quality Samples.

I cannot stress how important this is to begin with your production. One great sample can carry you further than layering many until you get that sound that you're satisfied with. For kick drums, I suggest unless you have two distinct kick samples that each has different characteristics you're interested in but cannot get the best of both worlds, then by all means layer them, but do make sure you get the balance right.

2) Turn Off Any Limiters Used When Referencing The Mix Before Mixing.

A lot of people are confused by the loudness war being conveyed in almost all contemporary music. This leads to them being tempted to mix with their limiters on the master bus thinking that it will assist them into getting really loud levels on their overall production. That is unfortunately not true. What the limiter is actually doing during your mixing process is decreasing the dynamic range between the elements of your production; whether it be drums, instruments etc. This can then ruin your production by making the mix itself sound squashed and penultimately make your production become rather tedious to master since their isn't enough headroom for your mastering engineer to work with.

3) Mixing The Kick, Snare, and Bass.

More importantly when it comes to drums, the loudest elements of your mix should be the Kick Drum, Snare Drum, and Bass. Because the limiter decreases the mix's dynamic range, the Kick and Snare now has to compete with every other element in the mix. This ultimately weakens the potential of how hard the drums are supposed to be hitting - your snares wouldn't snap as hard and your kick wouldn't hit as hard (Please note that this has nothing to do with the thump of the kick). Many think it is as simple as EQ'n and compression to get things going but that is not enough. The simplest mistakes are what hinders a production from being at it's utmost best.

P.S. If this information seems redundant to you please refrain from leaving negative comments. I do apologize in advance if I've wasted your time. This is for the absolute beginner or those struggling to get their productions in an order. Thank you.

 

[Zacobe]

You asked people to refrain from negative comments but I have to give some criticism here because I feel this could steer some people in the wrong direction.

To be honest there is no secret to hard hitting drums, it all just comes down to experience and practice and a combination of tactics that gets the overall sound.

I feel your comments about having a limiter on the master bus are shortsighted. Many, many pros will mix with their compression and limiting on the master bus so they know how their tweaks are going to sound while the master bus is being limited, which it almost always is. It's just a matter of preference. Some people like to get a rough mix then work in their master bus processing after, some like to have moderate master bus processing on while they mix; neither is right or wrong or will determine how hard your kicks end up.

If I was to give any advice about hard hitting kicks I would say one of the most important factors is gain staging. TBH, most of the kick samples out there are pretty good, but if you've already got the master bus hitting 0dbfs then no matter how loud you turn up the kick its not going to thump because the master bus has had enough. Best practice is choose a kick that you like, then set the level to somewhere around -18 or -15 DB peaking, then mix all your other stuff around that to make sure the kick will always have the headroom it needs to thump.

Now thats obviously not all you need to make it happen, but here are a few more tricks to help. When you have other instruments that have a lot of low end information like 808s or low synths, the frequency range that makes a kick thump might be masked with one of those other bassey sounds, so you have to either sidechain the bass, or notch out frequencies from the conflicting sound. Also, if you're layering kicks, one of the easiest ways to make sure they work well together is to adjust the sample start time on your layers because a lot of them will phase out of the sample start time is not in a friendly position. So get a couple of kicks layered, then go into your sampler or if you have them placed directly in your edit window you can nudge them forward or back by a few samples at a time until you hear it thump. You will be amazed at how much better a layered drum can sound if you shift one or more the samples forward or back X amount of samples until they happen to work well together. Also, you can try flipping the polarity on one or more of them as some of samples that you have start on a trough instead of a peak, which is not good. They say samples should always start from the centerline going towards a peak, not a trough. If you don't know what that means then google it.

Lastly another trick I learned was parallel compression. I'm not going to go in depth with this, but often times you can get better results processing the same kick differently on 2 tracks (or an aux track send) then trying to do it all on the same one. Practice this one.

 

[skitzothebeast]

I do appreciate your input with all the techniques you can use and avenues you can take to reach the final product but as I said this is for the absolute beginner, or what I should have detailed better for those who are struggling with "where to start to get kicks to hit harder". Mixing with a limiter can be done by an experienced engineer or producer who has good judgement in knowing what is too much and too little. If a beginner does wish to know what is parallel compression and sidechaining then I wouldn't discourage them from learning.

As for sidechaining, this technique is to be used with caution. Not every producer would know what to sidehain their kicks to and how much gain reduction should be used to achieve this. Additionally, you can sidechain all you want but if your sample isn't good to being with nothing can help to get the sound that you're looking for.

Notch EQ'n is a great way to create room for the low end in a mix where the kick is concerned but I can go pretty advance and say that this doesn't always work. Sometimes where Notch EQ'n isn't the answer, distortion is required to generate harmonic information to strengthen the sample so it can cut through the mix better.

I believe many would agree with me when I say it is better to mix with a limiter off just to avoid getting your self in trouble with the lack of headroom you can leave in the mix. Not that I disagree with what you're saying but prevention is better than cure. To avoid having to go through all the trouble of cleaning up the mix, it would be better to have a great sample selection to get things started off with. Lastly, you say there is no secret to getting hard hitting kicks, but it sure seems like it if the information being disclosed isn't explained explicitly by engineers who achieve this sound in their everyday mixing.

 

[Zacobe]

I agree to disagree. I don't think many would agree that it's better to mix with a limiter off, maybe many of the people you know, but as long as your threshold isn't ridiculously low it's not going to make or break your kick sound. And if someone doesn't know what is considered "ridiculously low," then none of the information either of us are giving is going to help. It seems like you were trying to refute my suggestions about sidechaining and notch EQing. I never said either of those were end all answers, but avenues to try, but you seemed to have a response making it seems as thought they were bad options. None of our advice is the end all, they are all things to try. I suggest if people are having a hard time getting their kicks to hit hard, that they try all of these things, including taking compression/limiting off the master bus, but I wouldn't say that either method is better than the other, even for beginners. You never want to steer beginners in the way of this is right/wrong/better.. It can stifle creativity for a long time. TRY things, then decide for yourself what works best for you.

 

[Ametrine]

2) Turn Off Any Limiters Used When Referencing The Mix Before Mixing.

A lot of people are confused by the loudness war being conveyed in almost all contemporary music. This leads to them being tempted to mix with their limiters on the master bus thinking that it will assist them into getting really loud levels on their overall production. That is unfortunately not true. What the limiter is actually doing during your mixing process is decreasing the dynamic range between the elements of your production; whether it be drums, instruments etc. This can then ruin your production by making the mix itself sound squashed and penultimately make your production become rather tedious to master since their isn't enough headroom for your mastering engineer to work with.

Since this is meant for beginners, I won't talk about the particulars of the other points.

But like Zacobe, I will also have to disagree a little that having a limiter on doesn't necessarily imply something sounds bad and it's only a preference. (In this case, the assumption is that a kick sounds weak). It's not something I ever do, but I know many others that do it.

Also, If the limiter is left near 0dbfs, there is no reason there should be any gain reduction during the mixing stage. If there is, the bigger issue has to do with properly adjusting levels.

Sometimes where Notch EQ'n isn't the answer, distortion is required to generate harmonic information to strengthen the sample so it can cut through the mix better.

I think this point actually needs to be one of the main tips. Overdriving a kick is a fantastic way to really make a kick break through a mix. Producers of all levels should be comfortable with learning how to generate harmonics.

 

[Zacobe]

I think this point actually needs to be one of the main tips. Overdriving a kick is a fantastic way to really make a kick break through a mix. Producers of all levels should be comfortable with learning how to generate harmonics.

Adding harmonics to a kick can give it a nice round punch, but unless you're using analog compressors that will actually generate harmonics when driven the only way you're going to get harmonics is by using something like RBass or MaxxBass, even that is emulated harmonics, and doesn't always work. Sometimes the plugin saturators can do a good job, like the Waves J37 or the Waves REDD, but most beginners dont have the money for these plugins.

 

[Ditcher]

This kind of info is nice

 

[Ametrine]

Adding harmonics to a kick can give it a nice round punch, but unless you're using analog compressors that will actually generate harmonics when driven the only way you're going to get harmonics is by using something like RBass or MaxxBass, even that is emulated harmonics, and doesn't always work. Sometimes the plugin saturators can do a good job, like the Waves J37 or the Waves REDD, but most beginners dont have the money for these plugins.

Basic digital saturators will do the job. I use FL's native plugin "Blood Overdrive" and it gets really good results.

 

[skitzothebeast]

I agree to disagree. I don't think many would agree that it's better to mix with a limiter off, maybe many of the people you know, but as long as your threshold isn't ridiculously low it's not going to make or break your kick sound. And if someone doesn't know what is considered "ridiculously low," then none of the information either of us are giving is going to help. It seems like you were trying to refute my suggestions about sidechaining and notch EQing. I never said either of those were end all answers, but avenues to try, but you seemed to have a response making it seems as thought they were bad options. None of our advice is the end all, they are all things to try. I suggest if people are having a hard time getting their kicks to hit hard, that they try all of these things, including taking compression/limiting off the master bus, but I wouldn't say that either method is better than the other, even for beginners. You never want to steer beginners in the way of this is right/wrong/better.. It can stifle creativity for a long time. TRY things, then decide for yourself what works best for you.

No matter how high or low your ceiling is with a limiter it still decreases the dynamic range therefore leaving no room so whatever for the other elements of the track to have it's unique sound during a mix. Hence, the reduction of dynamic range can really change the sound of a mix. Limiters and Compressors should rarely be used on the master bus during the mixing phase except during the mastering phase. Why I do not recommend limiters to be on the master bus for beginners is because they tend to "over do". That is the reason why I would not recommend distortion plugins such as MaxxBass and RBass for beginners unless they have an idea of what they are doing and what they think their mix NEEDS. I am only speaking from the trials and errors I've seen people make including myself so the other producers out there don't have to learn the hard way before they develop into knowing what's right. This information is not narrowing new producers' creativity but simply allowing them to be open minded and strategic in knowing how to approach the process of mixing their drums and how to accomplish what they want from them. To begin with, getting hard hitting kicks is a narrow minded process that the mainstream music today hypnotizes producers into thinking that that is the right sound. So please, do keep in mind that I am giving advice based on the notion of accomplishing hard hitting kicks in one's mix.

 

[Zacobe]

Its just not that big a deal. And you keep talking about how complicated these methods and plugins are, but A, no their not, and B so what? The best way to learn is to try, you shouldn't discourage anyone from trying something. And you know what, in some cases, leaving a limiter for the end can actually screw up your mix. If you don't do proper gain staging, then you get to the end of the.mix and put a limiter on the master track to help glue it together, adding a limiter at even high thresholds can ruin whatever the sound is that you achieved because you didn't leave room for the limiter to work. If you had it in there in the first place it would have let you know what was going to happen to your mix when you try and glue it together later. Its simply not better or worse to have s limiter on the master before the end of the mixing stage, even for beginners. Period. Its a matter of preference.

 

[skitzothebeast]

Its just not that big a deal. And you keep talking about how complicated these methods and plugins are, but A, no their not, and B so what? The best way to learn is to try, you shouldn't discourage anyone from trying something. And you know what, in some cases, leaving a limiter for the end can actually screw up your mix. If you don't do proper gain staging, then you get to the end of the.mix and limiter on the master track to help flue it together, adding a limiter at even high thresholds can ruin whatever the sound is that you achieved because you didn't leave room for the limiter to work. If you had it in there in the first place it would have let you know what was going to happen to your mix when you they to glue it later.

Do remember my point is MIXING with a limiter on the master bus can be more harmful for your mix than it not being there in the first place. Using a limiter to REFERENCE your mix during playback is not the problem. All that I am saying is that the limiter can leave your kick without room in the mix to be distinguished from the other instruments in the track.

 

[chopz makes beats]

people been saturating the **** outta their 808 kicks lately... here is a gem if it wasn't mentioned before.... decapitator

 

[techcommander]

sine wave layered under the kick.