Reverb & Delay Processes/workflow...???

Chew_Bear

New member
I am confused about reverb and delay...

I understand you can...

A. Put reverb and delay 'directly' on a track/channel.

B. Create a bus/group channel and than put reverb and delay on the bus channel, and than send all the tracks that you want to this bus/group channel.

C. Make separate Return tracks for both reverb and delay and than send whatever track/channel to whichever return track you want.

So...

1. What's the difference between these 3 workflows and why do they exist...???

2. What's the difference in sonic sound properties/characteristics...???

3. Of the 3...Are you supposed to use a different workflow depending on what your trying to accomplish or what your working on...???

Say...(C) for mixing, (B) for arrangement/composition and (A) for sound design/recording/tracking...right...???

Or...is it simply that you can use any or all of these workflows in combination with each other at any stage/process of music production...as long as it accomplishes the sound/mix/stereo spread/spectrum your after.

Any other concepts/principles that I don't know or missed...???
 
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1. A - if you only want reverb on 1 channel or if you want one channel to have different reverb settings to the others B- if you want the same reverb on lots of different channels C if you want the same reverb on some channels and different reverb on other channels.

(This is kinda obvious tbh, if you send loads of tracks to the same reverb then the reverb is gonna be the same on all those tracks)

2. Do it yourself and listen. Accurately describing sounds with words is impossible

3. Doesn't matter. It's just whatever's most convenient for you.
 
You mentioned a bunch of different workflows. They're all valid for different purposes. I have a stove and an oven and a microwave. (And a crock pot and a rice cooker.) They're not redundant, but they bring about different results.


You'll probably find that a track sound clearer if you don't put the reverb directly on it. It's good practice to send the track straight through to the mix bus, and also to an aux track to the mix bus. If you put the reverb (100% wet) on the aux track, you can balance how much of the original sound and how much of the reverb you want without sacrificing clarity.


If you want a more cohesive sound, like trying to make an alt-rock band or jazz group sound like they are playing together in one room, you may want to run all instruments to the same reverb bus, but in varying amounts.

However, there are good reasons to use different reverbs for different things. For example, sometimes I want a little room-tone for the vocal, a small hall for the piano, a small-hall that's gated for the snare drum, and a crazy large hall for a different instrument to make it sound like a pad. All are valid, and all can fit into the same song.


As for delay, you also have flexibility there. If you want the same delay for multiple instruments, but it on a separate bus and send all the instruments to it. If you want delay for only one instrument but want to adjust the volume separate from the instrument, you can also put it on a separate bus. But if the delay is only for one instrument and I don't need a lot of control over it, I'm happy to put it directly on the track.


If you want a rule of thumb, determine if you want your effect on multiple tracks or just one. If just one, determine if you want it to add to the original sound or alter the original sound. Then you know what to do.
 
I am confused about reverb and delay...

I understand you can...

A. Put reverb and delay 'directly' on a track/channel.

B. Create a bus/group channel and than put reverb and delay on the bus channel, and than send all the tracks that you want to this bus/group channel.

C. Make separate Return tracks for both reverb and delay and than send whatever track/channel to whichever return track you want.

So...

1. What's the difference between these 3 workflows and why do they exist...???

2. What's the difference in sonic sound properties/characteristics...???

3. Of the 3...Are you supposed to use a different workflow depending on what your trying to accomplish or what your working on...???

Say...(C) for mixing, (B) for arrangement/composition and (A) for sound design/recording/tracking...right...???

Or...is it simply that you can use any or all of these workflows in combination with each other at any stage/process of music production...as long as it accomplishes the sound/mix/stereo spread/spectrum your after.

Any other concepts/principles that I don't know or missed...???

A) DAWs take input, process input and output the result of the process. An insert effect on an input instrument track modifies the input to the next process further down the chain, so that its output is indirectly impacted by the insert effect in front of it. For instance if you have two insert effects, insert 1: EQ, insert 2: Comp, and you boost the mid range on the EQ, then the compressor will touch the lows and mids less, in other words the output of insert 1 is impacting the output of insert 2. If you put reverb and delay as inserts on a track - in PT inserts are pre-fader - you want the audio on that channel to be processed with the perception of the instrument and the room as a whole kit - as if it would have been recorded so, you don't care how that is going to impact the performance of the processes after it. This means you no longer have a "dry" signal available for applying other effects on that sound source. So for instance if you find the snare to be top heavy, but that this comes from the dry sound of the snare rather than from the dry sound of the snare and the ambience, now you cannot correct that in isolation from the room, your processing model has made it impossible to work at the desired isolation level, which in turn means you need to now lower the top end but balance how much against when the reverb starts sounding too dull.

B) In PT sends are Post-Fader, but you can make them Pre-Fader if you want. The setup of having an aux with a time adjuster as insert 1 and a reverb as insert 2, serves the purpose of making the transients be perceived separately from the perception of the room and to allow the reverb to kick in when the natural sustain of the sound source kicks in. By having various delay settings for the reverb on the various tracks you can find room for reverb perception of many sound sources even when the arrangement is quite dense. It also helps to make the mix less muddy, the compressors will not act to indirectly increase the volume of the reverb, since it can be adjusted to have been released before the reverb kicks in. And since the fx chain sits on a send, it is routed in parallel with the original track, so that you can process the two differently further down the chain. So for instance you might want to route the reverb to a dry stereo bus in parallel, and the original track to a comp stereo bus in parallel. This is a quite common scenario among pros - ambience effects are treated separately in stereo, while a lot of other processes are left mono, the combination causes great stereo perception. But the overall configuration is basically to have the reverb as the main effect and use effects before it as "pre-effects" to tailor the performance of the reverb towards a certain sweet spot by modifying/massaging the incoming signal.

C) This setup is done when you don't want the output of the delay to impact the perception of the reverb, you want to keep them detached. With the additional volume and pan fader that you get, you can now achieve things that are not possible when you keep them on the same track. You can for instance use the panning to reinforce the sound source at the same pan position (on either side) in order to thicken the stereo image or have it slap back on the other side on some other pan position, maybe because that will allow you to fill out the stereo field more effectively. This kind of setup is good in the sense that it makes you able to work in more isolation with each fx (reverb/delay) in isolation relative to how it should impact the original sound source, but because it sits in parallel it scales towards a potentially phase inefficient mix.

You can and should be open to each of these methods as valid methods to address in various scenarios. But keep in mind that the pan knobs are very important, also the pre-/post-fader settings. If you pan a track to a certain location in the stereo field, but all your effects tied to this sound source have all kinds of pan settings, then it means it lowers the focus of that element in the stereo field, that creates a "weak"/"blurry"/"unpresent" stereo image. If you have 5 mono aux tracks (100%L, 40%L, C, 40%R, 100%R) and 1 stereo aux track (100%L 100%R), now you can depending on where in the stereo field a certain sound source should sit well, use the fx processing as a means to indirectly "strengthen" the position of the sound source in the stereo field, rather than losing it in the stereo image. Another reason why this is important is so that you have more control over the contents of the mid and side components and so that you can fill out the stereo image using these additional pan knobs.

> Any other concepts/principles that I don't know or missed...???

When it comes to reverb, delay there are many ways you can use and route these to achieve various effects. When it comes to parallel processing this works great in a hybrid setup where you can do this routing with hardware at lower phase costs. Both reverb and delay shine in parallel in a context with great phase, but can cause serious amounts of mud in a less than great phase context. When you learn the art of mixing I recommend that you learn things like monitoring, panning, mid, side really well, before you start working with complex delay/reverb parallel processing chains. Once you then go advanced do not be afraid of trying new things, for instance side chaining a delay/reverb bus for a greater impact when it kicks in. Don't lose grip of the routing as a whole, try to stick to a layered approach that gives you a volume control that allows you to balance out unwanted side effects. It helps for instance to have all delays and reverbs unifying at the end on a single stereo bus that you can mute and unmute while you mix, partly because these kinds of effects can also be distracting while you work to resolve various issues in the mix. It is also important to be aware that some of these techniques work great in the hardware domain, but might not work to the same extent in the software domain. Try to focus the heavy lifting when it comes to the stereo image, to hardware. It is also important to not become afraid of the complexity of the signal routing, even when you have great ambience due to great reverb and delay, you still will need to address the balance and dynamics of the mix for the whole to be good enough and those are much more demanding in terms of routing... So take your time to get this right.
 
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I feel the quick and easy way to think about it all is:
Putting reverb and delay effect the sound directly (and example would be make a synth be a reverbed sound in the back ground like a pad)
Where as using a Send you are just adding texture to the sound rather than effecting the entirety (an example would be adding room tone to a snare drum).
 
Well....The main reason why I initially started this thread is because....I LOVE FUTURE BASS. Specifically...FLUME!!!

The genre's 'signature' sound....Has a lot to deal with Reverb and Delay. Therefore I was all confused as to how your supposed to set up reverb and delay....in order to achieve that signature future bass sound.

1. Anyone know how Flume is creating his reverb/delay effect chains/tails on his tracks/instruments....???

2. Does his workflow/effect chain have anything to deal with the 3 processes I outlined above...???

3. Does the signature sound of a genre/style...have anything to deal with how a producer utilizes reverb and delay effects to a certain degree....???

I.E. EDM, future bass, electronica...or...any kind of music really for that matter.

Basically...I literally am curious and confused...All at the same time when I listen to a future bass track.

Because...I can clearly hear a snare 'CRACK'...!!!

And than all of a sudden...I hear this distinct reverb and delay that's just oh soooo SEXY...!!! Obviously...the type/choice of sample/sound you pick...is really going to help you a lot in replicating the future bass sound.

But...I also know there is some really advanced mixing techniques/methods going on with reverb, delay, pan, eq and compression...All coming together to make that distinct sound/mix.

AND...I am desperately trying to figure out how to replicate it in my tracks...!!! Haha LOL.
 
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Well....The main reason why I initially started this thread is because....I LOVE FUTURE BASS. Specifically...FLUME!!!

The genre's 'signature' sound....Has a lot to deal with Reverb and Delay. Therefore I was all confused as to how your supposed to set up reverb and delay....in order to achieve that signature future bass sound.

1. Anyone know how Flume is creating his reverb/delay effect chains/tails on his tracks/instruments....???

2. Does his workflow/effect chain have anything to deal with the 3 processes I outlined above...???

3. Does the signature sound of a genre/style...have anything to deal with how a producer utilizes reverb and delay effects to a certain degree....???

I.E. EDM, future bass, electronica...or...any kind of music really for that matter.

Basically...I literally am curious and confused...All at the same time when I listen to a future bass track.

Because...I can clearly hear a snare 'CRACK'...!!!

And than all of a sudden...I hear this distinct reverb and delay that's just oh soooo SEXY...!!! Obviously...the type/choice of sample/sound you pick...is really going to help you a lot in replicating the future bass sound.

But...I also know there is some really advanced mixing techniques/methods going on with reverb, delay, pan, eq and compression...All coming together to make that distinct sound/mix.

AND...I am desperately trying to figure out how to replicate it in my tracks...!!! Haha LOL.

I listened to a number of Flume tracks. I think it is volume and pan automation with the Soundtoys EchoBoy run at 192 kHz through a high quality clock into three 1176 hardware compressors (medium attack, maximum release time) and a PL-2 limiter at the end, monitored by a set of Barefoot monitors.
 
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