Reason vs MPC

  • Thread starter Thread starter audioassassin2
  • Start date Start date
A

audioassassin2

Guest
OK...I KNOW this topic (hardware vs. software) has come up in various ways, but I want to try and get a specific answer relating to specific products, so I'll try to make my question as specific as possible.

I am currently using Reason 2.0 to make beats and to sequence music to make hip-hop/rap beats/tracks. In general, I am very satisfied with what I am able to do with what I have.

Recently, my partner and I (we both use Reason and collaborate on our beats) let a professional manager listen to some of our tracks to get some feedback and one of the things he asked us after listening to some stuff was what we were using equipment wise. Anyway, we explained what we were doing/using. He seemed to think that getting an MPC would really benefit us as far as drum sounds are concerned.

Now...here's where I get confused. With software sequencers as well as hardware sequencers, you can get tons of custom samples (as well as making your own) to use as part of your songs. So if I was using the *same* custom samples on an MPC, how would that make my track any hotter?

A friend suggested that possibly what the guy meant (even if he didn't realize it) is that MPC's may have a different "feel" to their beats/placement...possibly something that I can't achieve w/ Reason? It seems a little weird to me, but I want to put my best foot forward as far as quality goes. I already know that I have the ability, I just want to make my sh** sound as hot as it possibly can. I'm gonna have some money relatively soon and I was planning on buying a Digi 001 pro tools rig and some monitors, but if I had enough convincing, I'd definitely look at an MPC and maybe an Mbox for pro tools....

I hope this makes my question pretty clear. I need to know about advantages of Reason as a sequencer vs. an MPC(I know there are various models...but the 3 main ones...2000,3000,&4000 seem to work on the same principles...with more and less bell and whistles).

Any additional info on what all is able to be done on an MPC is always appreciated....like effects, sequencing music in addition to beats, etc.

Thanks so much,

-Brandon
Atlanta, GA
 
Last edited by a moderator:
audioassassin2,
If you probably do a search on this forum you will probably find alot of input about this topic. In my personal opinion it don't matter what you are using....AS LONG AS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.....to give you example check this site out....

http://www.propellerheads.se/replacehardware/hiphop.htm

The songs are by Tommy Coster....the keyboardist who came up with the "The Real Slim Shady" and other Dre produced songs.....hopefully these mp3s will show you that it don't really matter what type of equipment that you have, it all about the person behind the equipment.....:bigeyes:
 
don't be fooled

I'm also a great fan of reason, as I can do most of what I need within the one program. But let's work out what the manager could mean:

A) All the great artists in the rap/hip hop game used MPC's. Granted, they are superb samplers, but those guys didn't have computers, and things may have been different. The manager just thinks that you need one to be credible.

B) He's refering to the "sound" of the MPC. Believe it or not, the A/D converters in the MPC are different from the one's in your soundcard, or in an Emu sampler. This gives the samples a characteristic that your average Joe won't hear. Only those who use the gear alot can tell. Also, other things will differ between manufacturers. Eg, Filters, delays, chorus etc. They will all sound different on gear by different manufacturers.

As for protools, if you're into midi, don't bother with protools. Saying that, it's excellent for audio. The way I do it is to make the song in reason, then export the audio track by track and import that to protools. That way you get the programming of reason, and the plugins and manipulation capabilities of protools.

When all is said and done it's about how it sounds, not how you did it!
 
Archangel,
Like you, I think the manager only suggested a MPC because of the "crediblity" it might give him.

As far as the A/D converters, if this was why he suggested an MPC he would have suggested a 3000 or 4000, not just an MPC in general, cause 2000 has inferior converters. Plus in all honesty, I don't think most MC's would be able to tell difference between what type of gear someone has.:
 
Whether or not the MPC 2000 has "inferior" converters or not is a valid point. But I'm talking more about the fact that the converters will give the samples a certain sound. The MPC 2000 has its own sound which has been on so many samples, people don't even know it's there. It just imprints the sample like a watermark.
 
Thanks for the input guys. As I have taken the time to research and think about this whole thing over the last week it's become pretty obvious that this guy was just listening for certain things and he just didn't hear him. And that's fine. It's also inspired me to dig deeper in to Reason to really see what all it can do...and it hasn't disappointed! It has also forced me to continue to step up my game so that the next time I step to someone with material, it'll be even hotter and harder to resist.

Thanks for all the input guys. I look forward to discussing more musical topic with you as well...

Until then...

-Brandon
 
interresting point of vue

i've read the discussion, and it makes me wonder something.(xcuse me for my not so good english)
Archangel, when you export your tracks from reason, is the soundcard you have important for the sound quality?
cause i've reason and protools, but reson is installed on a g4titanium with a normal soundcard...
for the mpc sound, it's true that it's particular, and the way you set the swing in the quantise , makes a great groove
i like to use mpc2000 xl, with its internal sequencer, plugged by midi with a s1000, and synchronised with a roland mc505, herself synchronised with a roland drumbox R70; with this cinfig, i don't need protools sequencer, and the groove is really better; In fact, each machine has a particular way to play sequence, and software too.
 
Something else I noticed recently too was that in Redrum, I had been using 1/32 resolution which is pretty ok for a lot of basic patterns, but the other day (after I started this thread) I decided to bump it up to 1/64 and set the pattern length to 64 as well, and I realized that I had a good bit more control over the overall "feel" of the beat. For once, I could move a hit from one step to the next and the change was much more slight...more than I would have thought. On top of that, now I can turn on the "shuffle" and it doesn't over-affect the beat like it tended to in the other resolutions. Anyway, I guess all I wanted to say was that my fears have been put to rest for now. Now I just have to work on improving my overall sound quality....not that it's bad now....just have to make it as good as it can be.

Just wanted to add that...

-Brandon
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brandon -

Sounds like your headed in the right direction... I definately agree with everyone who says its not what you use, but what you do with it!

But, to clarify on the differences...

The primary distinguishing characteristics of the MPC is its sequencer. Some people would argue that the MPC (esp the 3000) has a great 'swing' to its sequencer - this 'swing' gives many classic rap and hiphop tracks their groove. As your discovering, putting a simple beat into the step sequencer of reason doesn't always yield a good rhythm (although I like reason's shuffle parameter). Sequencer differences, such as the ppq (how fine the resolution is) and shuffle WILL effect the sound of tracks programmed using the sequencer.

With the MPC, its less about the sample playback and more about the sequencer... As your now discovering, you can really get ALL THE SAME sequencing 'effects' in any sequencer, you just might have to bend the rules a bit...

Another note, the MPC can be a great tool for live performance - another advantage to consider... Its sequencer and interface is well suited for live performance, and real-time sequencing techniques (aka bangin' the box !). In contrast, I personally don't trust using PCs for live performance...

That said, I bought an MPC2000xl (for live performance) and sold it a few months later because - after using so much PC based software - I couldn't stand the miserable little user interface...
 
Tangent,

You make great points and they only serve to solidify my confidence in Reason. I do like the "shuffle" feature a lot...esp w/ higher resolution on the Redrum in Reason. In addition to that, if there are any issues w/ AKAI samples, that's about to go away too. Propellerheads is about to release Reload...a tool that will convert AKAI samples in to a format that Reason can use.

Also, I don't plan (now anyway) to be doing any live performance. Our goal is mainly production for the purpose of selling tracks/working w/ artists on songs in the studio.

So with all this knowledge that you guys have been bringin, I figure I might own an MPC one day...but it's fallen *way* down on my list. Right now, I'm gonna concentrate on building my sound library, upgrading my hardware (sound card, monitors, mics, Pro Tools, etc.) and always working on my songwriting/beatmaking.

Thanks again for the insight...

-Brandon
 
Reason cant hold a candle to the MPC in the the hip hop field.
And yes it is in the swing/velocity of the pads. I have yet to see a nice emulation on of this on the software front, I tried MPC templates in Logic, nope....
 
Hey guys, I agree with you...matter of fact I use a MPC over Reason most of the time...but it's a lot more expensive than Reason, and to be honest buying a MPC won't make you a dope producer. It just won't. If you got talent, you got it, if you dont, well just work on it.....I don't want to sound like i'm conceded....I'm not.....but where im from (a nice neighbor hood in Miami) kids buy MPC's, get some of their old pops records, loop em up, and produce nothing but garbage.....I go to their house get the records they figure are not good to use....and sample it, chop it up, play guitar on it, there add a string and piano arrangement on it, add drums...and when i let them hear it, they dont know how I made something that sounds "professional". I keep telling em this, "Hit's have been made with and without MPC, 's, that **** dont make you, you make you."

It''s funny cause most of the time, when someone is learning piano, if they are not confident with their skills, they dont consider themselves as someone who know how to play piano, but I swear, everybody i know who start off with an MPC swears, that they are timbaland, just blaze, neptune. Meng, that **** takes time....it dont happen over night...like playin piano overnight.....

Aight let me stop preaching.....but yeah MPC's are better but Reason is a better value!
 
MrKasualUltra said:
Reason cant hold a candle to the MPC in the the hip hop field.
And yes it is in the swing/velocity of the pads. I have yet to see a nice emulation on of this on the software front, I tried MPC templates in Logic, nope....
Click to expand...

Just out curiousity, have you tried to use Reason before? Not a challenge, just a question.

And I'm not arguing one way or the other...just wondered if you actually had spent any time with it and what your impressions were...

-Brandon
 
all progs can be good, it depends of how much time you spend on it;
the problem with a soft like reason , is thatmuch of users use it with the presets sounds, so every tracks sounds the same.
if you spend time to build your own sound and pattern, it justy canbe good
 
skeuv said:
all progs can be good, it depends of how much time you spend on it;
the problem with a soft like reason , is thatmuch of users use it with the presets sounds, so every tracks sounds the same.
if you spend time to build your own sound and pattern, it justy canbe good
Click to expand...

I agree that the big issue is over-use of presets.

I use Reason 1.0 for all of my composition work but have never used an unaltered preset and in fact, I mostly use the NN19 and redrum and import various samples from my own sample catalogue.

If you get into using things such as 'shuffle' and automate different effects to perform different tasks the limits with Reason are endless in my opinion...:)
 
aside from audio quality issues (samples processed with and MPC3000 generally sound "warmer" to me) , the reason I hear people give a lot for why they prefer an MPC is that they can "play" their beats the way they want them to swing. no matter how fine a resolution you choose in redrum, you may not be able to get that kind of control.

but, that doesn't mean you can't achieve a similar effect in Reason regardless. i faced the same kind of frustration, so now i don't really use redrum that much anymore. instead, i use the NN-XT, assign individual drum samples to keys on my midi controller, and bang away like someone would on those MPC pads. you can get velocity control too if you're MIDI controller has decent velocity sensing. plus, playing drums via keyboard can lead to some unique playing styles that you can't really get on MPC pads. i just fix any timing errors by hand in the sequencer. works for me, and satisfies my need to "play".

just be sure to always keep the "high-quality interpolation" switch on when using the samplers in reason. if you want to know the difference it makes, play a sample without it on, export it, and do the same with the switch on. compare the two different waves in an audio editor, and you'll see what i mean.
 
Mpc vs Reasons

audioassassin2

Peace how are you? Well, I have MPC 2000xl, and I use it like a computer, the feel is hot, where you cant get that same sequencing from Reasons. On the other hand, Reasons is hot to, with the sounds in it and the way you can use recycle with it. But the way I use my MPC is hot, then how I arrange it in the MPC, people ask me " what software are you using". I tell them none, I am using MPC2000xl and they look baffled. MPC makes your drum patterns tight and trust me you can't do certian types of with the Reasons opposed to the MPC. The sequence in the MPC is better than any computer software, ask anyone, that is why that manager suggested you get a MPC. I am getting reasons, but the MPC, recycle and Reasons with the refills are going to be my weapon. So add to your arsenal you will see how hot the MPC is. I love banging on the pads you can't do that with reasons.

peace:sing:

:victory:
 
dude is full of ****. what has he produced? does he have an engineering/audio background. some people swear that the mpc has a particular sound, but i remember back when most people were freaking the sp1200(and asr10), they sh***ed on the mpc for its lack of a characteristic sound. i have used an sp1200, asr10, mpc2000, reason 1,2, and 2.5 as well as. the mpc is a nice, albeit quite limited piece of gear, thats elegantly designed and very easy to use(when i hear people say it has a high learning curve, i basically think that person is an idiot, or is too impatient to properly read the documentation)

i still have one MPC, it collects alot of dust now, but i have about 150 or so beats on floppies, and im sentimental, so i keep it. the sound of your drums is far more dependent on you picking dope samples, and learning how to porperly compress and eq them(to make them thump and pop) the mpc doesnt do it for you any more than reason or anything else for that matter. the sp1200 really does have a grittier feel to it, due to the lower bitrate than todays equipment, an mpc, not so much.

if you want general tips on drums, inbox me, or whatever they call it on here
 
MPC 2000xl, 3000 , 4000

" J_Stew
Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location:
Posts: 9
dude is full of ****. what has he produced? does he have an engineering/audio background. some people swear that the mpc has a particular sound, but i remember back when most people were freaking the sp1200(and asr10), they sh***ed on the mpc for its lack of a characteristic sound. i have used an sp1200, asr10, mpc2000, reason 1,2, and 2.5 as well as. the mpc is a nice, albeit quite limited piece of gear, thats elegantly designed and very easy to use(when i hear people say it has a high learning curve, i basically think that person is an idiot, or is too impatient to properly read the documentation)

i still have one MPC, it collects alot of dust now, but i have about 150 or so beats on floppies, and im sentimental, so i keep it. the sound of your drums is far more dependent on you picking dope samples, and learning how to porperly compress and eq them(to make them thump and pop) the mpc doesnt do it for you any more than reason or anything else for that matter. the sp1200 really does have a grittier feel to it, due to the lower bitrate than todays equipment, an mpc, not so much.

if you want general tips on drums, inbox me, or whatever they call it on here".
*************************************************
This guy here, your way of talking to others, as though if you curse somewhat to make you seem believable is redundant and childish. If you were talking to me because you are right under me, "DUDE", then this is for you.
The MPC SERIES are great tools, the 3000 is cool but not for me because of the wave editing the 2000xl has. The 4000 cost to much and the freatures on it I already have I don't need it !!! There is a difference on the MPC series dealing with the converters that produce a warm gritty sound than Triton, or any other sampler besides the Sp1200. SP, has hard pads and limited sampling power. If you knew what you were talking about you would know that you can take a clean kick or snare put it through the MPC 2000xl, resample it in the MPC and get that SP1200 sound without buying a SP1200 and a MPC. You can see what to cut and chop and the MPC I can see and chop precisely !!! I don't even use a computer to do my preproduction, I use the MPC like a computer, it has bars like that of a computer when you use the midi tracks in a computer. It has 99 sequences which I never really go over 13 sequences, so it's sweet for that. The song mode section is the easiest tool I have ever used in my life, you just make up your sequences , go to song mode and put your sequences wherever you want. I love the MPC 2000xl so much I KISS it, yes I said I KISS it, and I am thinking about marrying it too lol . On a serious note I love that machine, and it took me places that even shocked me, where I can add sound after sound under another sound using the event, the tap tempo using 1/8 just holding down the button and pressing the pad to put in the hihat and it does it automatically everytime on time. You can't do that with the Triton or Trinity, and I have both. I don't like banging keyboards keys, it's not the same, I play on the keyboard that's what they are there for, MPC pads are there to bang out. Trust me if you heard my sound and tracks you would be amazed, I have had people call me a liar saying I used computer software,, I have been hired because of my use of the MPC and showing others it's not just a drum pattern machine to make up your drums. You can do a WHOLE track on it, I have 9 gig hard drive and a Zip and a CD Rom hooked up to my MPC in a chain. The filter is so hot in the MPC and now MPC is selling a fiter station that you hook up to the mpc. The MPC is a hot tool to have in the studio. So the MPC is the studio standard, lets see,
1.Pete Rock use MPC le the black one
2. Manny Fresh
3. Doctor Dre
4. Neptunes
5. Keith Sweet
6. Jazzy Phae
7. Snoop
8. OutKast
9. DJ Premier
10. Master P
11. P. Diddy
etc and I could go on for days.

I use the MPC which is the brain of my pre production, with the Yamaha O2R and I get the hot sound by EQing my drums, so they work hand in hand, and that is a good board, but I will step it up to the Yamaha O2r 24/96, that is a post production board that will be in a pre production environment. That is the same board that was used to engineer on for the Matrix. So I will have that software sound of protools basically on that board and mix it with my talent and MPC and wallllllllah, It's on. I know the whole MPC in and out, got it mastered, and what is funny is that a lot of people can't figure out the MPC or just don't use it like I do to make a whole track and make it seems like it's not all that. I will get reasons, it's dope too but it's no MPC, I will use Reasons to keep up with the times and it will be a new toy to play with. I just got protools and I am about to buy a Mac G-5 and use that with recycle and I can't be touched. I can't be touched now, and I don't have all that.
As for your info, I have worked with Junad of Yes Entertainment for Jimmy Cozier Album, Slick Rick , John Montgomery etc yada yada. I love to produce and engineer, but it came hand in hand together. So before you speak about others you need to be humble and just chill, we are talking about machines, I don't let the machine do me I do the machine !!!

:victory:

:sing: :bigeyes:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top