Not happy with new controller, need a little advice

[ColorVolume]

Hey guys,

I made a thread a little while back about getting myself set up for my venture into digital production and after some good comments I did some shopping last week. Picked up Logic Studio, Reason 6, some ATH-M50s, and a Novation Impulse 61.

Now, it's all great, except for the Impulse 61... which would be ok, except Automap is a painful experience and the faders feel like someone was eating toast or Weetabix whilst assembling them in the factory.

Seriously, I like the idea of Automap, but it's just annoying. Logic forgets the fader mapping every time I close it, and it has a nightmare of a time trying to work properly in Reason. I called Novation who's actual words were 'it MIGHT be fixed in a software update'... I installed the latest beta update as suggested and it didn't fix a thing.

So, now I'm thinking about swapping it for an alternative. I tried the Akai MPK in the store which I LOVED, build quality was far superior, it had 4 more pads, and the keybed was as good as you'll get at this end of the market. The problem is that I just can't afford the 61 key MPK (£150 extra), and the 49 is the same price as the Impulse 61 so it'd be a direct swap.

So, in my position, what would you do? Keep the Novation 61 and live with the crap faders and annoying Automap, or drop an octave and go with the Akai?

I should clarify, I'm a guitarist of like 16 years with a lot of live recording experience, but just starting out in the EDM thing, and learning keyboard from the Garageband lessons (which, before you laugh out loud are surprisingly good!). The end goal with the keyboard is simply to make decent songs, I'm not interested in playing keys live. So I don't want to feel limited by the board, but I don't know if I would with 49 or not since I'm not experienced enough playing keys... and even if I did, would the build quality / extra pads of the Akai win out over the extra 12 keys of the Impulse?

 

[Salem Beats]

[...]Seriously, I like the idea of Automap, but it's just annoying. Logic forgets the fader mapping every time I close it [...]

Did you try "save as default map"? You're talking about the fader mapping for mixer mode, right?

---------- Post added at 05:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 AM ----------

[...]I tried the Akai MPK in the store which I LOVED, build quality was far superior, it had 4 more pads[...]

Did you love the pads? In spite of AKAI's MPC history, most people don't like the cheaped-out pads that come with the MPK series. The Axiom series has some decent pads for a keyboard, if that's something you care about.

Have you looked into any other alternatives other than the MPK? Also, have you considered buying a used MPK 61 off of, say, eBay?

 

[ColorVolume]

Thanks man.

Yeah its the mixer mode for the fader controls i meant. I haven't tried saving the default mapping, I'm new to midi in general and I just followed the setup instructions in Automap. I will try that though.

I think I was a bit harsh in my post, I do love the Impulse board and I'm sure I'd run into mapping issues with any controller. I think I will stick with it, but Automap does seem a little sketchy.

With Logic sorted, how would I go about setting it up with Reason, if it's possible. Can you assign faders to Reasons mixer? It doesn't appear to have a 'learn' mode so I'm relying on the software controller setup and I think the Reason instructions in Automap are wrong because the options I get in Reason 6 don't correspond with what the instructions suggest.

 

[Salem Beats]

Thanks man.

Yeah its the mixer mode for the fader controls i meant. I haven't tried saving the default mapping, I'm new to midi in general and I just followed the setup instructions in Automap. I will try that though.

I think I was a bit harsh in my post, I do love the Impulse board and I'm sure I'd run into mapping issues with any controller. I think I will stick with it, but Automap does seem a little sketchy.

With Logic sorted, how would I go about setting it up with Reason, if it's possible. Can you assign faders to Reasons mixer? It doesn't appear to have a 'learn' mode so I'm relying on the software controller setup and I think the Reason instructions in Automap are wrong because the options I get in Reason 6 don't correspond with what the instructions suggest.

Automap is actually pretty awesome -- I've had a SL 61 mkII with Automap since January. You do, however, need to take the time to learn how Automap is supposed to work. It appears that the "learn" button on this new Impulse keyboard is in the lower-right underneath the LCD screen.

It looks like it's a "shifted" key, though, which is weird since it shares the key with "shift" itself. Without reading the manual, I would guess that you have to either double-tap that key or hold it long enough to enter "learn" mode.

Now that I think about it, it could be the other way around -- you press it to enter "learn" mode, and you hold it when you're trying to use it as a shift key to access secondary functions.

Try it out and see whether it works.

Isn't Reason 6 pretty new? I'm guessing that the instructions correspond to Reason 5. You should be able to get it working in 6, but I'm guessing some of the menus are changed around or whatnot. I've only tried Reason a few times, so I wouldn't really know.

 

[ColorVolume]

Aha I didn't realise there was a hardware 'learn' button! I seriously need to RTFM.

I found the learn mode in Reason too, it was right under my nose on the right click menu. It refuses to acknowledge my keyboard has a fader section though, I think as you said this is probably due to Reason 6 being so new, hopefully it'll get sorted soon.

 

[Mark Bakery]

I have the Novation 61SL Mkii and I've had some problems with Automap too, but once you know how it works it's really great. If you go to the site of Novation you can find help to solve your problems with Automap. It helped me atleast. So if I were you I'd just stick with the Impulse.

 

[Salem Beats]

Aha I didn't realise there was a hardware 'learn' button! I seriously need to RTFM.

I found the learn mode in Reason too, it was right under my nose on the right click menu. It refuses to acknowledge my keyboard has a fader section though, I think as you said this is probably due to Reason 6 being so new, hopefully it'll get sorted soon.

On the SL mkII at least, the faders are in "catch" mode by default, meaning that they won't transmit their value until they first match the value of what they're controlling on-screen. This prevents sudden parameter jumps in non-motorized faders like the kinds you find on most keyboards. I'm guessing that this is what the problem is. If you prefer instant response, there is probably a setting for this (at least there is one on the SL mkII), but I would highly recommend sticking with this "catch" mode --It's a lot better on your speakers if you're using the faders for track volume.

There are several videos Novation has made to help with setup. This one is intended for the SL mkII and Reason, but the basic idea is the same; I suggest that you watch it anyway:



This one uses the Impulse keyboard specifically:

 

[ColorVolume]

Thanks man,

Ok I'm kinda getting somewhere now, but it's far from fixed.

I can get Reason to hear the faders now, but they don't control logical functions. For example, you'd assume that the faders would map to the faders on an instrument, like the ADSR faders as in the video you linked. But instead they map to the same controls as the 8 pots do. I can't edit the mapping in the Automap window because the faders are in Midi mode, and it says 'Faders in Midi mode, install software'.

The faders do work with the mixer in Reason correctly, but annoyingly, even after 'locking them to the Mixer', they continue to control whatever instrument you have selected in the sequencer too. So let's say fader 4 controls the amp envelope on the Thor, then when you switch to mixer, you move fader 4 to control channel 4 level, and it does indeed move the level, but still moves the amp envelope on Thor.

I left a message on Novations board explaining this in more detail, there's screenshots too but I can't post links here yet. I need to call them up on Monday again I think.

 

[Salem Beats]

Thanks man,

Ok I'm kinda getting somewhere now, but it's far from fixed.

I can get Reason to hear the faders now, but they don't control logical functions. For example, you'd assume that the faders would map to the faders on an instrument, like the ADSR faders as in the video you linked. But instead they map to the same controls as the 8 pots do. I can't edit the mapping in the Automap window because the faders are in Midi mode, and it says 'Faders in Midi mode, install software'.

The faders do work with the mixer in Reason correctly, but annoyingly, even after 'locking them to the Mixer', they continue to control whatever instrument you have selected in the sequencer too. So let's say fader 4 controls the amp envelope on the Thor, then when you switch to mixer, you move fader 4 to control channel 4 level, and it does indeed move the level, but still moves the amp envelope on Thor.

I left a message on Novations board explaining this in more detail, there's screenshots too but I can't post links here yet. I need to call them up on Monday again I think.

All of these problems sound as though they stem from your "Faders in MIDI Mode" message. MIDI Mode means that the faders will act the same way any non-Automap controller would (i.e. MPK, Oxygen, etc.). My suggestion is to avoid using MIDI Mode.

It appears that on the new Impulse series, your faders on the left are always dedicated to the mixer, and your rotary encoders on the right are dedicated to either your plugins or mixer. Actually not too bad of an idea. On the SL mkI and mkII, most users don't ever end up using the faders to control plugins anyway. By using encoders only, you don't have to worry about the faders' "catching" mechanism I mentioned earlier -- everything responds instantly. If you need to assign more than 8 parameters per instrument, you can use an essentially unlimited number of "pages" by using the shift key and one of the buttons next to your knobs to go up or down a page.

 

[ColorVolume]

Sorted it!

It's not perfect, and I'm still pretty sure Reason isn't automapping the faders properly, because the controls end up assigned to some very odd options, but if I Automap everything except the faders then it works well.

The problem with Reason not 'hearing' the fader messages was a user error on my part. I'd clicked the 'Keyboard override' learn mode, so it was listening for input from my computer keyboard and not my Midi controller lol... the option I should've checked was the one below it - 'Remote override'.

They clearly need to update Automap a little, and Logic still forgets the Automapping every time I open it and I have to reconnect the faders to the controller in the 'Environment' window, but it's definitely closer to being right.

Thanks for the help man, much appreciated.

 

[Salem Beats]

It's not perfect, and I'm still pretty sure Reason isn't automapping the faders properly, because the controls end up assigned to some very odd options,

The beauty of Automap is that you can completely scrap the default mappings and create your own new default mapping. I do this with absolutely every Automapped plugin that I use. You can also download some templates that other people have made.

They clearly need to update Automap a little

When they made v4 for this new Impulse series, they broke the "learn latch" feature of my SL mkII! I hope they update that problem first. The newest beta says that they fixed the "learn latch" feature, but they must've forgotten to add it back into the keyboard's UI, because I have to click around the software now to go into "learn latch" mode

They clearly need to update Automap a little

By the way: http://beta.novationmusic.com/releases/automap/

 

[ColorVolume]

Yeah the dude from Novation suggested I grab 4.1b9 which I did, apparently the final 4.1 is due out this week.

Is there anywhere that has a manual for Automap, I can't seem to find a 'help' system in the software itself. It might be on my installation disc but I didn't check.

With regards to saving templates, how do you do that? I like the idea of setting everything up and then saving it out.

 

[Salem Beats]

Is there anywhere that has a manual for Automap, I can't seem to find a 'help' system in the software itself. It might be on my installation disc but I didn't check.

www.novationmusic.com/download/856/

With regards to saving templates, how do you do that? I like the idea of setting everything up and then saving it out.

Set it up however you want, and then in the Automap software, click "set as default". That will set the current mapping as the new default mapping for that particular plugin.

 

[ColorVolume]

Awesome, thanks so much.

 

[TranslationsMedia]

Did you try "save as default map"? You're talking about the fader mapping for mixer mode, right?

---------- Post added at 05:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 AM ----------



Did you love the pads? In spite of AKAI's MPC history, most people don't like the cheaped-out pads that come with the MPK series. The Axiom series has some decent pads for a keyboard, if that's something you care about.

Have you looked into any other alternatives other than the MPK? Also, have you considered buying a used MPK 61 off of, say, eBay?

The pads on the MPK are a little to hard, but its a easy modification to make there response 100% better.

 

[ColorVolume]

The pads on the MPK are a little to hard, but its a easy modification to make there response 100% better.

Yeah for sure, I sent back the Novation in the end and went with the MPK. I haven't missed the extra octave yet and man is this thing better quality. Definitely pleased I made the switch, not only is the build quality massively better, I don't have to mess with Automap. Since mapping in Logic can be done with the press of a hotkey, I much prefer the flexibility.


So yeah, happy MPK user here, add a +1 to the Akai for those that find this thread searching for controller recommendations.

 

[Salem Beats]

Yeah for sure, I sent back the Novation in the end and went with the MPK. I haven't missed the extra octave yet and man is this thing better quality. Definitely pleased I made the switch, not only is the build quality massively better, I don't have to mess with Automap. Since mapping in Logic can be done with the press of a hotkey, I much prefer the flexibility.


So yeah, happy MPK user here, add a +1 to the Akai for those that find this thread searching for controller recommendations.

Still kinda surprised you didn't just jump on eBay and get a good-condition used 61.

 

[ColorVolume]

Still kinda surprised you didn't just jump on eBay and get a good-condition used 61.

Yeah I had a look on eBay but nothing came up. There was a couple 49's but no 61's at the time. I'm in the UK too so the selection is often kinda limited compared to the US. I was keen to go new anyway because of the warranty. The store I got it from includes a 3 year warranty and since I've heard the MPK keys can sometimes be a little problematic I thought it'd be good to get that extra couple years cover.

Right now I'm happy with the 49 but I think if I ever do want the extra keys, I'll just grab a cheap 88 key midi 'board only' thing.