H
Hiperurano
New member
Technine, you are a indie producer right? could you give some advices of this producing style ? anything ......
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T
TECHNINE
New member
Actually I am 50/50 between old school industrial (Skinny Puppy/Front 242) and indie rock along the lines of Jesus Lizard, Big Black. Production wise I'm probably someplace between Steve Albini, Dave Ogilive and Mutt Lange.
First off I'd say that it is important to be selective with the bands that you work hard for. Some bands are literally a paycheck and others you will end up doing a lot of pro bono work on for little pay. Find a band that you like their sound and work WITH them to develop their songs, sound and style. Not every band is, by the way, happy to have someone coming along to critique their material even for the purposes of making them sound better (by your estimation).
Once you find that band focus in on them and tighten the songs up. Make them be selective and spend time on only their best material. This is really important because if you don't have good songs everything else is a waste.
By the way, there are tons of good bands out there that don't write good songs. Be very careful.
As far as the production part goes you should strive for the most professional equipment or studios you can record at within the confines of your budget. Once you track the songs and get it all recorded mix it up. My only advice is don't make it TOO slick or polished sounding. Make it sound professional but with a raw quality to it that keeps the life in the songs.
Generally if your mixes start to get that Bon Jovi type sound you've gone too far.
As far as my mixes go I tend to put some additional emphasis on the overheads and room mics to give a more live ambient quality to the sound. We're literally talking about a minor adjustment less than 1 db over what I would consider the "safe" level of -6db for the OH's/room mics. This makes things sound a bit unpolished and mean.
When I say unpolished I don't mean leaving in stuff like hiss, 4 counts, guitar noise and so forth--I get rid of that stuff. I try to record a band to sound like their ultimate live show in a small to medium sized club. And then I add some fancy stuff real subtly.
I'm almost done with my latest project, I'll link it from here. We decided to re-record the main vocals because some of the lyrics changed.
First off I'd say that it is important to be selective with the bands that you work hard for. Some bands are literally a paycheck and others you will end up doing a lot of pro bono work on for little pay. Find a band that you like their sound and work WITH them to develop their songs, sound and style. Not every band is, by the way, happy to have someone coming along to critique their material even for the purposes of making them sound better (by your estimation).
Once you find that band focus in on them and tighten the songs up. Make them be selective and spend time on only their best material. This is really important because if you don't have good songs everything else is a waste.
By the way, there are tons of good bands out there that don't write good songs. Be very careful.
As far as the production part goes you should strive for the most professional equipment or studios you can record at within the confines of your budget. Once you track the songs and get it all recorded mix it up. My only advice is don't make it TOO slick or polished sounding. Make it sound professional but with a raw quality to it that keeps the life in the songs.
Generally if your mixes start to get that Bon Jovi type sound you've gone too far.
As far as my mixes go I tend to put some additional emphasis on the overheads and room mics to give a more live ambient quality to the sound. We're literally talking about a minor adjustment less than 1 db over what I would consider the "safe" level of -6db for the OH's/room mics. This makes things sound a bit unpolished and mean.
When I say unpolished I don't mean leaving in stuff like hiss, 4 counts, guitar noise and so forth--I get rid of that stuff. I try to record a band to sound like their ultimate live show in a small to medium sized club. And then I add some fancy stuff real subtly.
I'm almost done with my latest project, I'll link it from here. We decided to re-record the main vocals because some of the lyrics changed.
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M
Mabu
Guest
I don't think Nevermind was very standard with the mix and compression. It might have been standard to use compression but I am still interested in the settings.
I know I'm going to be sorry for asking, but what exactly is the "Bon Jovi sound"?
I know I'm going to be sorry for asking, but what exactly is the "Bon Jovi sound"?
T
TECHNINE
New member
Bon Jovi sound... well... listen to them! IMHO very sterile and does not rock out.
As far as compression settings and so forth... if you are really that interested you should research the work of Butch Vig who recorded and mixed Nevermind, and Andy Wallace who remixed and mastered it.
Vig is well known for work with his band, Garbage, as well as being pretty hot in the mid 90's for 'alternative' bands. Andy Wallace used to master Slayer albums in the late 80's.
Look 'em up... neither of those producers really excites me. I think Nevermind is probably the 2nd worst sounding Nirvana album to my tastes (other than the drums). The vocals are too clean for Cobain and the guitar is almost toothless.
In Utero... now there was an album! I like the Fisk material like Sliver or Dive better than Nevermind era stuff as far as the production sound goes.
Nirvana were meant to be raw... like all good acts.
As far as compression settings and so forth... if you are really that interested you should research the work of Butch Vig who recorded and mixed Nevermind, and Andy Wallace who remixed and mastered it.
Vig is well known for work with his band, Garbage, as well as being pretty hot in the mid 90's for 'alternative' bands. Andy Wallace used to master Slayer albums in the late 80's.
Look 'em up... neither of those producers really excites me. I think Nevermind is probably the 2nd worst sounding Nirvana album to my tastes (other than the drums). The vocals are too clean for Cobain and the guitar is almost toothless.
In Utero... now there was an album! I like the Fisk material like Sliver or Dive better than Nevermind era stuff as far as the production sound goes.
Nirvana were meant to be raw... like all good acts.
R
Ronnie Raygun
Guest
Look, you can bash Vig's work on Nevermind but what about Siamese Dream?
Not many producers have made such a beautiful work of art.
Were those guitars toothless? I think not.
Not many producers have made such a beautiful work of art.
Were those guitars toothless? I think not.
T
TECHNINE
New member
Ronnie Raygun said:Look, you can bash Vig's work on Nevermind but what about Siamese Dream?
Not many producers have made such a beautiful work of art.
Were those guitars toothless? I think not.
I dunno... it sounds good but I don't like the Pumpkins so it is a decent sounding album that I don't want to listen to much. I like stuff that is rawer and doesn't have Billy Corgan in it.
Sorry... never a big "Pumpkins fan except for parts of Gish.
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Ronnie Raygun
Guest
Siamese Dream had the best guitar sound of any album put out in the 90's.
M
Mabu
Guest
Both albums are brilliant. And when you compare Garbage to the Pumpkins or Nirvana, you can obviously tell that it wasn't Vig's production talents that made the difference.
Maybe certain hallmark aspects of the production are standard but I don't know the details of how those "classic uber-compressed" parts are put together.
I'm curious what you all think of Dada's first album, "Puzzle" - I think the guitar on that album is really good.
Maybe certain hallmark aspects of the production are standard but I don't know the details of how those "classic uber-compressed" parts are put together.
I'm curious what you all think of Dada's first album, "Puzzle" - I think the guitar on that album is really good.
R
Ronnie Raygun
Guest
I thought Dada's second album was better.
"Both albums are brilliant. And when you compare Garbage to the Pumpkins or Nirvana, you can obviously tell that it wasn't Vig's production talents that made the difference."
I think it says less about the talent of Vig, and more about the talent of the band he was in. I was never impressed with Garbage. They were a total studio band. The difference is, SP and Nirvana rock and Garbage sucks.
Siamese Dream was a masterpiece and Mellancollie and the Infinate Blah was not...simply because Vig was not a part of it.
"Both albums are brilliant. And when you compare Garbage to the Pumpkins or Nirvana, you can obviously tell that it wasn't Vig's production talents that made the difference."
I think it says less about the talent of Vig, and more about the talent of the band he was in. I was never impressed with Garbage. They were a total studio band. The difference is, SP and Nirvana rock and Garbage sucks.
Siamese Dream was a masterpiece and Mellancollie and the Infinate Blah was not...simply because Vig was not a part of it.
T
TECHNINE
New member
Actually it is often underrated how much a producer can effect the overall direction of an album by how hard they push the band, if they help with arrangement a little bit, or are prone to weird ideas that the band says 'yeah'... or if the band is prone to weird ideas and the producer says 'it's not done that way'.
Case in point on Nevermind: Territorial Pissings is a DS-1 plugged straight into the board despite Vig's horror and shock--but he couldn't talk Kurt out of it. Example 2: Vig's decision to record Something in the Way in the control room and then track the drums/cello to it later on instead of the other way around; also he recorded vocals and guitar simultaneously instead of seperate tapes.
And thankfully he rolled tape on Endless Nameless!
Case in point on Nevermind: Territorial Pissings is a DS-1 plugged straight into the board despite Vig's horror and shock--but he couldn't talk Kurt out of it. Example 2: Vig's decision to record Something in the Way in the control room and then track the drums/cello to it later on instead of the other way around; also he recorded vocals and guitar simultaneously instead of seperate tapes.
And thankfully he rolled tape on Endless Nameless!
N
Ndek
New member
i would agree on that in utero in much better produced ..
the thing about nevermind is that it became slighlty over rated mostly due to the fact that it was their first big break, and for most of people the first time they heard nirvana's specific sound.
in utero though sounds incredible, whether or not one's like the songs better. even after thousands of times of listening to it , it keeps all its particularities....
the thing about nevermind is that it became slighlty over rated mostly due to the fact that it was their first big break, and for most of people the first time they heard nirvana's specific sound.
in utero though sounds incredible, whether or not one's like the songs better. even after thousands of times of listening to it , it keeps all its particularities....
T
TECHNINE
New member
The 'candy-ass' production on Nevermind is what I dislike about it. However--EVERY TRACK ON NEVERMIND IS A CLASSIC SONG. Nevermind is one of the very few perfect albums. All the songs are fully realized and fleshed out, and played to perfection. The album is emotionally and sonically complete as hell.
In Utero, though, has Very Ape and Milk It, which are two of my favorite reckless abandon heavy Nirvana songs on it.
In Utero, though, has Very Ape and Milk It, which are two of my favorite reckless abandon heavy Nirvana songs on it.